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Hey everyone!

Please join us in welcoming @Irene to the staff team as a moderator for the Politics forum. Please consider her the first contact for any issues that arise in that section for the foreseeable future. Show her verdicts the same deference you show the current members of staff.

Please greet your new overlord here.

Thanks. -Jon

The Struggle For Dark Hallow | Everybody (But Kalas) Wins!

Discussion in 'Little Italy' started by SmileOfTheKill, Jan 13, 2012.

  1. Uncle Stojil

    Uncle Stojil Auror

    Joined:
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    Maybe it's just me, but I don't have a problem if I get a vanilla town role (or close to it like Morgan was). I have fun either way, with or without a night action. Maybe it's the fact I'm a noob and noobs are bound to be more enthusiastic than experienced players who have done it all already.

    The Werewolf Beginners' Cup seems to point to that too, since the players there were mostly beginners. They enjoyed it and were pretty involved, despite the vanilla roles. It made for a great game to follow and, I'm sure, to play in.

    Having less or no vanilla roles isn't necessary, IMO, especially if too many powers fuck up the balance or make the game too confusing.
     
  2. Sacrifice

    Sacrifice Guest

    Denarians WIN CONDITIONS: Kill every Knight of the Cross, anyone is just a bonus. If you manage to win, I will reward you with extra flavor text

    Nah, I'm joking.

    I do think that it is pretty hard for White Court to win, since Lara's taint is effectively a delayed kill, that only kills someone off after 2 days, which could be prevented by Knights purification. If Lara dies, Thomas and Madeline could only Seduce every other night, further slowing down the process.

    If the Knights play it well, the White Court can kill NOBODY.

    Red Court, however, Red King gets to kill everyday. If he dies, Red Duchess and Red Baron can kill every other day. This is still better than White Court. The reason being, the only way to stop their kills is by protecting their intended target (by protection or swapping). If they managed to attack someone Merlin or Forthill cannot expect, their rate of killing will be way higher than the White Court.


    Under the VERY UNLIKELY scenario that both the White and Red Court does not lose any members, and the Knights fail to purify the White taints...
    End of Night One.
    Red: 1 kill White: 0 kill

    End of Night Two
    Red: 2 kills White: 0 kills

    End of Night Three
    Red: 3 kills White: 1 kill

    End of Night Four
    Red: 4 kills White: 2 kills

    See where this is going? Red Court has an obvious advantage over the White. Meanwhile for the Denarians, they could easily win at Night 4 without my spectacular screw up. Which puts it at an advantage over Red Court.

    Also, it seems pretty difficult for Black Court to win, considering the fact that they only have a one-shot Mavra kill. The Dracula taints really only becomes useful after several nights, and that is only if the Knights did not purify the taints.

    The Fae, if he manages to hide away from people actively seeking him out, will start killing every night starting from Night Two. This effectively makes this scum faction even more powerful than the white.


    Personally, I think Lara Raith's delayed kill should be shifted up by one day. So that they could catch up with the Red Court. Madeline and Thomas's kill after Lara's death should also be shifted up by one day.

    As for the Black Court, I think that Mavra's kill should be upgraded to at least kill once every other night.



    I may have missed something out, but yes, the scum factions should be more balanced. Even though it is possible to confuse the Knights by claiming to be tainted (Especially for White Court and Black Court), it will only bring the Denarians to victory even faster.

    Perhaps the Denarians win condition should be changed?

    ---------- Post automerged at 10:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:34 AM ----------

    Or perhaps, give a

    "soup-kill" ability to White Court, allowing to kill if they manage to identify the roles of a particular player
     
  3. Koalas

    Koalas First Year ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    The problem with.shortening the delay on white court is that it makes denarian/erlking/black court that much.harder to win as those.taints.become preferable. Also white court has a monopoly on disruption abilities which is almost as useful as the nightly kill.
     
  4. Jon

    Jon The Demon Mayor Admin DLP Supporter

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    If I had that power in this game no one would have had a chance.

    Just sayin'
     
  5. H_A_Greene

    H_A_Greene Professor –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    Unfortunately true. Though unless I'm mistaken, that can only work once a night so you'd still have only killed a handful of us before you were taken out this round, friend :)
     
  6. Jon

    Jon The Demon Mayor Admin DLP Supporter

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    My only regret this game is that Stojil called me as scum for the wrong reasons, and that you're(Kalas) a nigger. >_>
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2012
  7. H_A_Greene

    H_A_Greene Professor –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    Give us moar Organic Instability and less Mafia time, Jon ._.
     
  8. Lungs

    Lungs KT Loser ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    How about more of both? :3
     
  9. Jon

    Jon The Demon Mayor Admin DLP Supporter

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    I'm done with mafia.

    People cry too much about legit tactics.
     
  10. Koalas

    Koalas First Year ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Its not legit tactics but that established players are accepted on word alone. If you'd posted more reasoning with that list no one woulda bitched.
     
  11. jwlk

    jwlk Seventh Year

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    I don't understand anyone who complained about Jon guessing their roles.... But if thats true, they are the ones who should be done with mafia, not you.
     
  12. Jon

    Jon The Demon Mayor Admin DLP Supporter

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    I expect people to use their own brains and not rely on mine to help them arrive at the conclusions that I come to. Expecting anything less means that I treat everyone else who I play with as abject morons.

    Do you want me to treat you like a moron, Kalas?

    For the record, I said as much when I was arguing with Stojil.

     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2012
  13. Jon

    Jon The Demon Mayor Admin DLP Supporter

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    Also, there was the fact, you know. That I was White Court?

    But hey let's just pretend I was town, like everyone who went to Vash assumed I was, okay? That'll keep your case nice and strong Kalas. That way you don't have to take hours coming back with a reply. ;)
     
  14. Schrodinger

    Schrodinger Muggle ~ Prestige ~

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    Uh, I wouldn't mind some occasional moron-treatment.
    Seeing as I am. You know. A moron.
     
  15. KaiDASH

    KaiDASH Auror DLP Supporter

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    Why is there a responsibility for jon to post anything??

    If he wants to point at certain people and say these guys are x,y,z and leave it at that - then he is certainly free to do so.

    And if people are going to believe him without any critical thinking of their own, whose fault is that? (regardless of whether he is right or wrong)
     
  16. coleam

    coleam Death Eater

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    I agree with Kai - I mean, yeah, I was frustrated when Jon posted his list because he got all of the Knights correct, which meant that there was a decent chance his other guesses were right too. But it also made me nearly positive that Jon was scum, so I took his scum reads with a bit of salt.

    The way I see it, most people were mad because he revealed town roles, which normally doesn't happen. People make lists of who they're suspicious of all the time, but no one ever outs the other town players - scum have their own QTs to talk amongst themselves, and no town player wants to give away their heavy hitters. It's really not much different than putting out a list of people you think are scum, and just paints you as a scum role.

    The "I'm Jon, therefore I'm better than everyone else" attitude is pretty darn annoying though, and not something I like having to deal with in any game.
     
  17. Sacrifice

    Sacrifice Guest

    Then you are competent. It does not necessarily mean it is as useful to other people.


    Also, though White Court has pretty disruptive powers, they are still massively disadvantaged earlier on.

    ---------- Post automerged at 04:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:18 PM ----------

    Also, it's endgame. Can a mod please change the title? :)
     
  18. Jon

    Jon The Demon Mayor Admin DLP Supporter

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    This just makes me laugh. So god damn hard.

    I talked to Aekiel about this on IRC after I died.

    He understands, but I had to explain it to him. Let's see if you're capable of deducing it yourself.

    Also for the record. I love that you translate confidence as 'I'm better than you'.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2012
  19. Uncle Stojil

    Uncle Stojil Auror

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    Still, since we're reminiscing:

    Famous last words!

    Plus this:

    Anyway, I reiterate my stance on this. Jon has done nothing wrong, except for his voting derp, obviously. I would have had no problem in him living beyond that too (I would have preferred it, actually), but I consider Smile's decision to modkill him reasonable, anyway.
     
  20. Seratin

    Seratin Proudmander –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    Tbh, I lost interest in the game halfway through. So much dickery and retardation in one thread. The final straw was a derp by Smile. Someone RB'd the knight who was purifying me but Smile didn't count it so I was left to be boring Susan. At that stage the game was already falling in around us.
     
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