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WIP The Wandering Inn by Pirateaba - M - Original Fantasy

Discussion in 'Original Fiction' started by Glimmervoid, Aug 28, 2017.

  1. Sorrows

    Sorrows Queen of the Flamingos Moderator DLP Gold Supporter

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    I don't think I quite agree with some of your assessments. Ryoka it is true has far too many talents and knowledge but her antisocial personality has definitely been a weakness for her throughout the story.

    In terms of Erin, she was a dick to Toren but she also realised and regretted it later. He was a creation of magic, it would be logical for her to think of him as a robot. After all that is what Pieces told her undead servants essentially were. Toren was almost a world first and an accident at that. Why would Erin be the one to realise he was not just like others of his type, he's the only one she's ever seen. It's more on Pieces for not realising his creation was not like the others he had made.

    Also if we accept that both Toren and Rags have free will, their crimes are only their own. Erins mistakes with Toren do not impinge on his own established free will. More the matter is she attempted to remotly execute him, based on rumours, by cutting his magic supply knowing he was a sentient person. If you grant him personhood you have to also remove Erin's right to do what she will with him as his 'owner.' All the same blaming her for his later actions because he wouldn't have done it if she was nicer would be like blaming a school shooting on the guys ex because she cheated on him. It might have been the catayst but choices lie with those that make them.

    Relec was not trying to kill Rags because of crimes she had committed. He was trying to kill her because she was a goblin. Erin protecting people from unjustly being killed is a moral choice and making a moral choice in that moment does not make her liable for the rest of Rag's life. Pretty much every person Erin meets fits our world definition of serial murderer, would not judging Rags based on the values of our world be exactly the moralising you were talking about?


    Goblins are an underclass, their culture is built on the fact the other races actively stop them building permanent communities or farming land for fear they will become more of a threat. They are treated as animals and their culture reflects that. To someone like Erin coming from a society that everyone is biogically the same yet some are treated as a lesser order of human, this would seem black and white. The idea a race might be biologically 'lesser' yet humanoid would be an alien idea and an anathema to her values. I think the author does a good job of showing the serious consequences of trying to stand on a principle society does not believe in. She gains almost nothing from being the champion of Goblins. Nobody thinks her a hero for it, not even the goblins. It seriously damages her business, her relationships and her standing in her community. We tend to glamorise standing up for injustice as something that is intrinsically vindicated in the end. I think the author does a realistic job in showing why so few actually do it when they don't have skin in the game.

    She is unessasarily hostile to Pisces for far longer than is warranted. I feel like the author imagines him to have a far more abrasive personality than is communicated to us.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2018
  2. Rahkesh Asmodaeus

    Rahkesh Asmodaeus THUNDAH Bawd Admin DLP Supporter

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    Think back, the only time Ryoka's personality has hurt her has been when she fought with the Horns and got her ass handed to her. Other than that, she's been a prickly asshole that gets by because she's Ryoka. She's the Batman to Erin's Superman.. And she's actively getting better too, which isn't exactly a bad thing, but it also takes away her only flaw. She's gaining new friends and acting nicer in general.

    I think in order to answer the Goblin issue we need to go back to the beginning and see how Goblins first interacted with other cultures. Were they always a pillaging, scavenging society, or did they have actual civilization with farms and villages? I did actually skip some stuff, so I'm not sure if this was addressed with the Goblin King or not, but as far as I know, all of that is a mystery. All we know is what Rags showed us, and that's what I'm going off of. Goblins have always killed and pillaged, that's their way of life. That's the reason other races despise them, because Goblins are wandering tribes of killers and thieves that show no mercy or remorse.

    And I'm not saying Erin is responsible because Rags and Toren are two autonomous beings -- I'm saying she's responsible because she harbored Rags and protected her from harm, and basically made Toren insane because of the way she treated him. Had she let Relc do his job, Rags would be dead, and how many people would be alive now? All those towns Rags sacked and pillaged, all the innocent travelers she killed on the road with Garen, those deaths are because Erin thought her morals trumped everybody else's well-founded prejudices against Goblins.

    Toren was a creation of magic, this is true, but Erin's lack of knowledge in this area should make her more inclined to believe that Toren is a person rather than a thing. In the chapters we see from Erin's perspective, we see her observe Toren's reactions to her orders. Like the fires in his skull dimming when he's ordered to do something he doesn't like, or the "look of horror" on his face when she tells him to teach Lyon how to do stuff. All of this stuff indicates emotions, feelings, even subconsciously she should start treating him as a person more than as a thing that did her bidding.

    The first time he went missing, when he accidentally blew up the old inn and she told him to get lost, it's true, she missed him and regretted being mean to him. But the instant he came back it went back to the same relationship, which is why Toren snapped and left. My point is that she treats everybody else like a human, even the Antinium workers or soldiers who literally are part of a hive mind and have no personality, wishes, dreams, or desires of their own. Toren was more of a person than the Antinium, and showed more emotion, but Erin ignored it because he was too useful as a slave, and because he was Pisces' creation. Her morals and rules only apply to people she likes, otherwise you're free to kill them or treat them badly.
     
  3. Sorrows

    Sorrows Queen of the Flamingos Moderator DLP Gold Supporter

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    Relecs job was to murder her friend because of what she was, not what she did. What she did later can not be retroactively reflected on what Erin did in that moment. If you accept that goblins are a sentaint race then then Relec is likly far more a monster than Rags was then.

    Finding sources of historic racial guilt to justify current prejudice is dumb. Forcing a species to the edges of society and using what they have to do to survive there as a justification for keeping them there is a stupid dance as old as time.

    Erin was told by her authority on the subject that Toren was essentially an android. She used him as he was supposed to be used. It is only cruel because we know he had feelings. To her it was lauging at her roomba getting stuck on a rug. People anthropomorphise all sorts of things, that doesn't mean we think they can feel human emotions. Surely the onus is on the manufacturer if there is a malfunction not on the customer, partially when he was there to monitor his creation. Sure she missed the signs but emergent sentience is not exactly something anyone had experience with.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2018
  4. Rahkesh Asmodaeus

    Rahkesh Asmodaeus THUNDAH Bawd Admin DLP Supporter

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    But you're just making the broad assumption that Rags is an innocent Goblin that never hurt anyone. We know that's untrue. We haven't seen a single Goblin yet that hasn't made their living scavenging or attacking innocent people/villages. Are you making the assumption that they were forced to the edge of society, or was that something I missed? Nothing I remember from Rags' memories, or from any other character from that world says that. Goblins are universally hated by every single other race. Even the nicer, more open-minded characters think Erin is insane for how she treats Goblins.

    To me, this is analogous to Hermione and SPEW. Hermione is trying to place her society's values into a world that she doesn't understand or know the history of, just like Erin is doing.

    Also, people are willing to change if they see Goblins acting in a manner unlike their usual one. The women that Rags saved appreciated her and while they didn't love her, they still thought of her differently than they did other Goblins. It shows that people aren't unreasonably biased, in my opinion, but biased for good reason.

    And my point with Toren was that Erin knew he had feelings, and realized it. Whenever we see Toren in her chapters, it's from her perspective. So that "look of horror" is a clearly expressed emotion that she saw Toren have, and realized that he didn't like dealing with Lyon. It's my view that she didn't miss the signs so much as dismiss the signs because of her hypocrisy and bias.
     
  5. Saez

    Saez Professor

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    Hey, if anyone's interested, now's a good time to try and catch up. A really good arc is finishing up
    an epic battle scene just happened last chapter that's been building up for a long time
    and the next book will probably be coming out in the next month or two.

    Also, Ryoka hasn't been in the latest book which is great because she wasn't one of my favourite characters either.
     
  6. Barzûl

    Barzûl Third Year DLP Supporter DLP Silver Supporter

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    So I just finished reading this story (up to 6.02) after 2 weeks of quite heavy reading.

    It's very much a slice-of-life fic, especially the earlier books, but I dig that.
    Erin is a very likable character who always brings something interesting or cringy (in a good way) to the table.
    I really disliked some of the characters POVS, some of which filled too much.
    Emperor Laken, however plot-relevant he was, and Ryoka

    Ryoka is so unsympathic, I nearly put the fic down a few times. Her long chapters and pissy attitude really made me cross my fingers that she wasn't the focus of the next chapter.
    That said, in book 6 (so far), she's much more pleasant to read about! It honestly made me smile. She is awkward and still prone to being a bitch, but she does her best not to. Really glad that the author took that direction with her.

    The author does a great job of humanizing "baddies", e.g. Goblins, necromancers, while still maintaining that just because you're a Goblin, you're not a misunderstood angel. I felt it got a bit preachy at times, but I've learned to look past it.

    In general the wide cast of characters is very well done, allowing for some good breaks with the main characters.
    For example Niers, Flos, Magnolia

    I really like this story and I will follow it eagerly from now on.

    4.5/5 stars, rounded up for extraordinary length.
     
  7. Cxjenious

    Cxjenious Dark Lord

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    Does anybody still follow this? I read up until Tyrion Veltras' Seige of Liscor and the end of that book, but i couldn't make myself read about Ryoka and gave it up. Has anything interesting happened?
     
  8. Saez

    Saez Professor

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    You should read on about Ryoka, the author's gone in a different direction with her and has developed her character more. She also has only had like 4 chapters I think in this book, the arc solely about her is less interesting then the arc later that intersects with her about the backlash Magnolia's nobles are having for supporting her coup of Veltras' army.

    If you like Baleros characters you can skip the first few chapters of slow liscor action and read those and come back to the liscor stuff later. I enjoyed them personally but I do think they dragged on a bit.

    Edit: I feel like I should mention that this book has been a lot less Erin heavy with only half being about Liscor at all. Some people haven't really liked it but I enjoyed the Chandrar and Baleros arc's.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2019
  9. Saez

    Saez Professor

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    Last few chapters are about a witch coven. Really digging it. Besides that though, it's very bland considering right now its Durene pov arc. Consensus from the fandom is that Durene is worst waifu ever, her character is bland af and I tried very hard to like her but nah. She's just annoying, hopefully pirate can flesh her out better later on.

    Anyone else still keeping up with this? It's at 4 and half million words almost iirc, and there's been a few(3-4) very long chapters this volume that were around 25k.
     
  10. Sauce Bauss

    Sauce Bauss Minister of Magic DLP Supporter

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    I ground to a halt around 5.21 and though I keep meaning to try again, I can't muster the motivation. There's been a lot of focus on characters I don't care for, plotlines I don't care for, etc. I didn't even know a Durene pov arc was happening, and my desire to slog through half a million words for the pot of shitty waifu at the end is near zero.
     
  11. Cxjenious

    Cxjenious Dark Lord

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    My feelings exactly. I've read some of the sixth book, and I'm just not feeling it.
     
  12. Saez

    Saez Professor

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    Yeah that's fair, if I had stopped a book ago I don't know if I would bother to catch up myself. I've been keeping up with the updates of twi weekly and even then I find myself skimming at times, the only other web serial I follow now is PTGE which I binge every few weeks.

    I noticed I haven't given a review even though I've been following this since Glimmer put it up for review so here it is.

    The problem with TWI is that it's so long even though it really doesn't need to be, and the plot is also very meandering and aimless. It's on volume 6 and it feels like we've barely reached the halfway point to a lot of central plots
    Antinium going back to Rhir to connect with those left behind/and or fight the God there, Flos going to war, Magnolia's plot to to bring peace on Izril, Erin connecting with Niers, more info on the spell that brought the Earth people besides that it was the Rhir king messing up.

    Not to mention the inconsistencies and low quality of Volume 1 and 2, which just based on them I honestly wouldn't want to recommend to a new reader knowing they'd have to slog through a bad start. The quality has definitely gone up throughout though just in terms of writing but...That brings me again to the pointlessly Huge wordcount. It's at around 4 and a half million words. That's absolutely crazy but at the same time sort of admirable, to their credit they've never had a lot of pointless filler chapters but they have had a lot of weird detours that weren't necessary (fanfic writer- turned knockoff author that promptly disappeared, the vampires with aids and etc) and they start a pretty much a new plot thread to loop in with half of their mini-story arcs and it's become repetitive in how much the story wanders away from Erin and the fanbase doesn't like it either. Recently it hit the #1 on that topwebfictions site when it came back to an Erin arc after so long.

    Also the fact that the author has pretty much forgotten Toren for like a whole book.. I'd be more interested in seeing what happened to Scott Kent (guy who killed an earth person and joined in the iPhone chat in book 2) then having a weird Jesus Ant arc(minor spoiler that Pawn started an antinium religion and apparently that was enough to create a heaven for them) or even how Selys' prophecy ties in with the Goblin King's key over that.

    To the author's credit they are trying to lessen the chapters but a short while ago they wrote a 30k chapter in like 3 days and only managed to edit it down to 24k.. So, I'm not holding out any hope that they're going to manage drastically changing their writing style. They're just to used to bloated chapters now. And it works for them I guess since they make triple what erratica does on patreon.

    All in all I would give it a 3.5/5. Rounded down to 3/5 because I figure the author is going to milk this for a few more years before it ends and RIP I'm not interested in reading a 10 million word web serial. I still like this but I feel like it's gone down over time, I would've rated this a 4/5 last year.

    P.S
    the goblin genocide arc feels a bit cheapened since Pyrite got rezzed, still really think they didn't all have to die. Noears for example was plenty skilled to gtfo in one piece and he was a great character. Also fuck Laken. Blind annoying shit, my hate of Ryoka transferred to him ten-fold, and even Durene is just a lesser version of Garia with even less personality.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  13. Barzûl

    Barzûl Third Year DLP Supporter DLP Silver Supporter

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    Still keeping up with it.
    The Laken chapters are very hard to get through to the point where I am just skipping most of them and reading the discussion reddit for a brief summary.

    Imo TWI has very little re-read value (perhaps owing to its immense word count), so even a good chapter is a bit meh.
    I feel that the story got a bit out of hand for the author, as they go off on a tangent for 50-60k words at a time.

    Despite this, I still keep up as the Erin and Antinium chapters are top notch. The latter chapters dedicated to Ryoka has also been quite nice.
    It also has some nice character pieces (Wistram Days, Niers, Embria).
     
  14. Saez

    Saez Professor

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    Embria is debatable, we still don't know a lot about Relc retiring and her backstory on her military career. It was nice to see her character development but she still strikes me as too similar a character to Ryoka.

    My favourite character arcs to see upcoming would probably be one from Ken, Blackmage or Clown.
     
  15. Cxjenious

    Cxjenious Dark Lord

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    Erin finally linked up with Niers? What chapter?
     
  16. DvorakQ

    DvorakQ Seventh Year DLP Supporter

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    Niers doesn't link up w/erin yet, he's busy trying to prepare to leave Baleros. He's gotten a bunch of screen time with his students and a massive game of tag. Look for the D chapters in vol 6
     
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