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The Wise Man's Fear by Patrick Rothfuss

Discussion in 'Books and Anime Discussion' started by Joe, Feb 25, 2011.

  1. syed

    syed Supermod

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    I meant my questions at the end of my last post to be seperate, the sithe are the guardains that may or may not have a feud with kvothe.

    To deal with the fae, you need to know the lore fully, but there are so many myths and stories that it has all distorted it self. So the Chronicler has a unique opportunity to gain all the stories and history and the rules of the fae, from bast. If a biography of the Kingkiller will be big, the a book telling the truth of the whole of fae would be invaluable.

    In the ancient myths and stories, the only magic I remember hearing is the power of names and some magic items, but there never seemed to be any sign of sympathy based magic.


    Can some one explain how the spoiler function works, i forget which icon is needed.

    Hints about the door leads to the suspicion that it leads to the amyr, so I wonder if their enemies know this as well. If known, they would either destroyed it to block their passage, or used it to attack them in surprise.

    Those ancient devices that no one knows how to create, by best guess is that they either of fae origin, or when people were able to use the power of names more fully, they could imbue objects with power using names.

    If the Sithe are feared by the chandrian, that means they can harm them, so I wonder what about their weaponry or power is so feared, as other fae fear the seven. There is an issue while Kvothe is safe from their punishment due to his patented device, that also means that the Seven could be similar protected as well. There is an upside, as its creator, he could know what is needed to create an arrow able to pass with out its flight influenced.

    This is just a random idea, according to the stories, both the amyr and the chandrian were once humans, that were altered through power. While they might have no home, they must have at least one safe location, for meetings and gatherings. Imagine what they might contain, remember that vase that the seven slaughtered a wedding to get to, why destroy, but instead take it as there own. They might be monsters, but human like habits are hard to break. Treasures, books and unique magical goods from another age. Their hording such thing would be pure ego, something even affects the fae.




    Can some one explain how the spoiler function works, i forget which icon is needed.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2012
  2. CareOtters

    CareOtters Headmaster DLP Supporter

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    MASSIVE NECRO, YO.

    But I think it's worth posting. Having just finished re-reading WMF for the billionth time, I was internetting around looking for Rothfuss love. I didn't find a website where I could purchase sex from bearded lookalikes, but I found a very interesting post:

    I didn't notice the details about the line "Not tally a lot less..." - I'd call this either definitive proof of the theorized relation between Kvothe and Meluan or Rothfuss fucking with us to suggest as much.

    Too much to be a coincidence.
     
  3. Castiel

    Castiel Headmaster

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    I was already pretty convinced about this. But I did not notice that particular reference, so thanks for posting.

    Since the thread is back, anyone read any good KKC fanfcition?
     
  4. w1lliam

    w1lliam Groundskeeper

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    Damn i thought there was some news :-(

    My next reread is going to be in december, hopefully there will be some news by then!
     
  5. logiccosmic

    logiccosmic DA Member

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    Damn I want Book 3. SO BAD.
     
  6. Seratin

    Seratin Proudmander Prestige DLP Supporter

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    The "Not Tally a lot less" theory was posted a few days after the book came out in this thread iirc. But now I have to read the books again just for the sheer joy of it.
     
  7. Exile

    Exile High Inquisitor

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    If you're going to read one you might as well read both.
     
  8. Oliver Kingston

    Oliver Kingston Fake Flamingo Prestige DLP Supporter

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    To whoever asked, the fics are shit except maybe t3t's Dresden cross, it has no Kvothe, but it's worth reading. Also try "The V's have it" because everyone should read that to understand that no matter your fandom, you will always have those fans who destroy what you love.
     
  9. Taure

    Taure Magical Core Enthusiast Prestige DLP Supporter

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    Been reading WMF again. Noticed something new in the interludes: at the beginning, Kvothe is "the innkeeper" or "the man who called himself Kote". Stuff like that. But in a later interlude, when the mayor comes along and he and Bast go up to Kvothe's room to talk about his chest, the narrative is calling him Kvothe.

    Another thing about that part: Kvothe says it took him a while how to figure out how to make a box without hinges. That means he had specific desires. Now, it might mean that he just wanted it to be super secure. But it might also mean that he made it to be a replica of another thing that can't be opened: the Lackless mystery.

    I still think Kvothe's name is inside the box, somehow, and he needs his name to be able to open it.

    ---------- Post automerged at 02:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:50 AM ----------

    ebwoca


    Could this be what puts Kvothe in the position he's in now?
     
  10. CareOtters

    CareOtters Headmaster DLP Supporter

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    I wouldn't think that a statement like that would have so great an effect from words alone, but it seems possible that Rothfuss dropped it in as a hint to what would later happen.

    If Kvothe's true name is inside the box, it makes me wonder whether the Lackless box also holds a name. In two seperate stories, we heard of how a boy named Jax or Iax locked a piece of the moon's name inside a box. This easily references the moon being stolen from the sky at the start of the creation war. The Lackless box could be that very box.

    As Haliax/Alaxel/Lanre is shown as being intimately connected to the moon; "shadow-hamed", and the three phases of the moon surrounding his image on the pottery, it seems likely that he was involved. The similarity of the names Iax and Haliax suggests that they're the same person. Hell, there's even a scene in WMF where Kvothe describes a word being shortened in this manner - Ravelend/Travelling rabble -> ravel. Pretty sure that this is another reference by Rothfuss to the changing nature of names in stories.

    Iax, the shaper who stole the moon, is described as being shut behind "doors of stone". Doors, plural. These could mean the four-plate door, the Lackless box, or the greystone passages between the two worlds. Haliax could have been sealed behind the greystones, unable to pass back into the faerie realm. He could have had his name sealed in the Lackless box, or behind the four-plate door. Perhaps both, and the sealing of his name is why he could not pass into the faerie realm.

    This is getting to be just conjecture, though. My best guess is that there is something made from stone or copper inside the Lackless box, which serves as a key to the four-plate door, behind which the name of the moon was sealed. In order to gain the power to do this, Lanre changed his name, thus becoming a shaper of names, rather than just a namer. There's a clear distinction between shapers and namers, and shapers are described as being on another level of power entirely.

    When the Tehlin angels (the Singers?) gain their power, it is shown as stars on their foreheads - Kvothe's was, too, in his encounter with Felurian. Perhaps this is a connection between them, some kind of similarity, but I believe that it's just how this kind of power is shown, and the quote below is a description of the Singers changing from namers to shapers by changing their names. Something about the change removes them from "mortal sight" - I see this as saying either that their activities were hidden from the common eye thereafter, or that they physically vanished. Perhaps to the faerie realm, or perhaps becoming immaterial entities.

    When stealing the moon's name, Haliax may have used it as an anchor, that he might remain in the normal world, and the moon vanished instead, into faerie. The changing phases of the moon are a kind of seesaw effect as he and the moon move between the two worlds. I see the shadows covering his face as a kind of symbol for the seen/unseen part of the moon, as I doubt he'd have a couple inches disappear off one side each day until he was fully gone.

    This post is mostly wild speculation from odd tidbits of information - even the direct references to the books may not be fact, because Rothfuss is a sly fucker.
     
  11. songsparrow

    songsparrow First Year

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    I have not seen this discussed anywhere, I've spent a lot of time going back through both books and trying to make sense of some things, if this is old news please forgive me. However:

    Felurian tells Kvothe she was in Murella, before the Fae existed, when there was one moon, one sky. Implying not only how very old she is, but that she was NOT always, originally, Far. I think she was one of the many people swept up by Iax's army to populate Fae. Thoughts?

    Felurian also says that before the cities of men, before men, before fae (if I'm not mistaken, the word men is simply a distinction that means not-fae, it was not in usage before the Moon was stolen, the Creation War, whatever you choose to call the event ) there were those who walked with their eyes open who knew all the deep names of things. And after those came came ones who saw a thing and thought of changing it, and THEY thought in terms of mastery.

    OK, so to me this seems to indicate that ELodin, Kvothe, and Elodin's other students are the namers, like the original wise people, as well as perhaps, Loren. I'm reserving judgement on him. He's protecting more than his books, I think. But why should he be inclined to reveal a precious, even sacred secret to a young, impatient troublemaker like Kvothe? Most of the other students, and at least some of the Masters, are the second type of people, the Shapers. Do all the Masters have to know a Name to attain their position? Kilvin knows one, somehow I have a hard time with Hemme or Brandeur ever being open enough to catch the name of anything! Thoughts?


    Lastly, for now, Felurian says she was in Murella, where the shapers had done wonders, she recalls eating fruit from a silver tree. We know from the Creation War story that there were 7 cities other than Myr Tariniel that lasted until Lanre's betrayal. And of those seven, one survived. The cities were Belen, Antus, Vaeret, Tinusa, Emlen, Murilla and Murella (the twin cities). If Felurian was in Murella, where the shapers were, I believe that city would have surrounded what is the present-day University. Remember the present university is built atop multiple buried stories of a much older school, one that is filled with fantastic mechanical contraptions. Such as shapers would have built.

    So if the present University is located where once the city of Murella stood, then Imre MUST be the city that did not fall - Murilla. Why would Iax's armies have sacked one city and left the other standing? Rothfuss is always going on and on about the bridge between them - the bridge that didn't exist, or was made of wood and easily burnt, during that war. The enemy couldn't cross the river, simple as that.

    I'd love some feedback, for or against my ideas. TIA, songsparrow

    Songsparrow
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2012
  12. Kthr

    Kthr Unspeakable DLP Supporter

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    Tl;dr: This book gets more awesome everytime I start reading it again.
     
  13. funflash

    funflash First Year

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    By luck I've just had another reread of the book but not this thread, so sorry if these things have been brought up already and apologies for the layout and grammar. One day I'll learn how to post.

    One thing that did strike me is the descriptions and actions of both Puppet and Magwyn.

    Puppet is one of the characters that I've never paid much attention to but he seems to hold a wealth of information like many of the residents of the University.

    I find even more emphasis placed on a persons name.
    “Who are you?”

    “I am Kvothe.”

    “You seem so certain of it,” he said, looking at me intently. Another pause. “They call me Puppet.”
    and then shortly after Kvothe asks
    “What do you call yourself?” I asked.

    He seemed a little surprised, and his eyes focused onto me in a more ordinary way. “That would be telling, I suspect,”
    Of course I don't have any new ideas but in my thoughts I believe it could offer further proof that while Kvothe names himself Kote he is limited both physically and mentally.

    It also makes me wonder what creatng a name for another persons does as Kvothe did with Auri.

    Does this alter her nature in anyway?

    Magwyn is interesting because there is another character able to 'see' people but she has no known ties to the univesity.
    'Her eyes were like Elodin’s. Not in any of the details. Elodin’s eyes were green, sharp, and mocking. Magwyn’s were the familiar Adem grey, slightly watery and red around the edges. No, the similarity was in how she looked at me. Elodin was the only other person I had met who could look at you like that, as if you were a book he was idly thumbing through.'
    In the next paragraphs there seems to be a lot of important information that I won't quote but raises a few questions.

    Why is the name Maedre something that Kvothe shouldn't share with other and yet he lets the Chronicler write it down.

    Does this signify that it doesn't mean anything anymore or doesn't hold any power of Kvothe/Kote?



    Finally my third query, why doesn't Felurian have a Name? Why musical notes instead?

    Is this to signify that Kvothe becomes or could be a Singer.

    How are Singers different from Namers and Shapers? Are there things the sleeping mind can't/won't translate to words?

    Anyway, just my musings... tell me if they're stupid!
     
  14. Oliver Kingston

    Oliver Kingston Fake Flamingo Prestige DLP Supporter

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    So I'm sure it's been posted, but I haven't seen it. I solved what El'The means, and it's painfully obvious that it means "Listener".
     
  15. Sol

    Sol High Inquisitor

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    The University is most likely built on the ruins of Belen, not the Twin cities. As seen in the letter Kvothe sends to Ambrose from Tarbean and the letter Denna sends to Kvothe.
     
  16. songsparrow

    songsparrow First Year

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    Sol,

    Kvothe addresses the letter to Ambrose in Bellany-Barren. A barren is often an empty plain, flatlands, in other words, pretty much where Imre and the University are located. Twin cities are often separated by a river (Minneapolis/St. Paul). If the University is in Bellany-Barren,
    then Tarbean, which is a very old and large port city, makes a better candidate for Belen, doesn't it? Tinusa became the free city of Tinue. I think Severen was also one of the seven, Kvothe says it is old and mentions the "high stone wall circling it spoke of troubled times long past." Perhaps Vaeret? That would leave us with Antus and Emlen. Was it Hallowfell that was renamed because of the atrocities the lord/supposed Amyr inflicted on his peasants in order to further medical science? What I would give for an index/concordance!

    I think there's a wealth of info to be "unravelled" :facepalm in the Felurian and Ademre sections. There's not as much action, true, but everything in these books is there for a purpose - all these stories Kvothe hears hold important details if we can puzzle them out.
     
  17. Erandil

    Erandil Headmaster

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    I sometimes wonder if Rothfuss thinks even half as much about his book than you do^^. Sensing a story behind every word seems a bit paranoid, but enough of that.

    @ fun
    Creating a name does probably nothing at least normally, the interesting fact is that she accepted it. Not sure if that hints at some power of Kvothe (seeing the real names with his subconsciouses) or if she just liked it/him. But I think that her own name is the reason why she is more active and finds back in live.

    Maedre- No idea wondered about that too. But he tells quite a few secrets that he should no talk of so who knows the reason behind that.

    Felurian. She is a Fae so that could influence the nature of her name. Or Kvothe as a musician just interprets it as a song. No idea, don´t think it that important.


    @ song
    Nice idea but why should a river stop an army? Especially as the position offers no special protection in the form a noteworthy landscape (Swamp, Mountains, etc.).
    Also is not every city that is separated by a river automatically a Twin.

    And for example in Lord of the Rings Minas Tirith and Minas Ithil are also twin city's even if they are separated by quite a distance.
     
  18. Innomine

    Innomine Auror Prestige DLP Supporter

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    It's reminding me of English classes in high school, where no author or director could possibly consider as many of the little details as the people analysing it try to. Sometimes patterns are just coincidence.
     
  19. Taure

    Taure Magical Core Enthusiast Prestige DLP Supporter

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    I do think Rothfuss actually does agonise over individual words. Obviously not every single word in the whole story, but I certainly think there are examples where he has chosen the words very carefully. He revises over and over and over, and focuses a lot on the language as well as the content.
     
  20. Mordecai

    Mordecai Drunken Scotsman Prestige DLP Supporter

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    You didn't just ask why a river would stop an army did you?

    Rivers are, historically, well known for their propensity to stop and/or divert armies. Due, in part, to the notorious difficulty of crossing rivers without bridges or fords or boats.