You mean like how it has the same main character? Yeah, I dunno what Rothfuss was thinking, there. What the fuck kind of sequel is similar to the first book, amirite? :awesome

 

Eternal thanks to Silverlasso for hooking me up until I can get my hands on a hard copy.

I received the book around 10pm, and promptly spent the next 9 hours reading. It ruined my Thursday, but it was so goddamn worth it. I personally thought that while it was not as structured or tight as NotW it had a more personal air that I found incredibly engaging.

Spoiler

And unlike everyone on DLP, I didn't hate Denna. As a Rothfuss character she had some pretty massive flaws, but I guess I always saw their relationship as being a lot more equal than the comments here have implied. Kvothe knew what he was getting into and got in anyway. She teases to live, but can never have a home. Yeah, shes fucked up, but intentionally leading him on? Its pretty solidly implied that both of them don't know how to handle real affection and their sheer ignorance about love is keeping them apart.

And apparently I'm the only member of DLP to retain a sliver of empathy in my black, dead heart. I got her situation a lot more and her actions seemed in retrospect less bitchy and more cautious. Eh, either way, I'm still hoping for some hot Auri or Devi action anyway.

But romance isn't really what pulled my mind in this. There were a ton of little things i liked or didn't like, but I'll only detail a couple here.

Spoiler

Just a couple of little things, but first Princess Ariel = Auri? He mentions the 'truth' about her, the names are familiar enough for Elodin to be surprised and it just seems like a Kvothe thing to do to accidentally befriend the insane princess to the Commonwealth. Its a little cheap, but I couldn't get it out of my head nonetheless. She has the regal manner, grace and Kvothe often mentions how tea with her felt like sitting with royalty. Eh, maybe I'm thinking too much into it.

Also, the Ctheah. WHAT?!?! You can't just introduce a whole mind bending. plot swirling fae thing and then just forget him, you bastard! That section was in my opinion over the top, and it just broke the plot. How can anything go right now? A 'defying fate' gambit seems far too obvious for Rothfuss, and yet it seems that may be the only way for anything good to happen. Get ready for 3 to be some depressing shit, I guess.

Also, Felurian. I get that you need to introduce some elements of sex into a story, its a useful device and bla bla bla, but Kvothe is a sixteen year old virgin who survives the magic of the sexiest creature known to man with just a bit of willpower. There is a stereotype about teenage boys for a reason. It just seemed like such a cheap tactic. Kvothe, instead of an awkward, fumbling first encounter most people have with sex suddenly goes from stumbling stutters to Kvothe, Sex God. It was just so much like wish-fulfillment that it reminded me of a harem fic.

but apart from my griping, a really excellent read. Came away feeling exceptionally satisfied.

 

Bought it,finished it and loved it. The book was totally engrossing and I am now going for a reread.

So how the fuck is Rothfuss going to complete the whole story of Kvothe in only one book?

 

Just finished it, 3am.

THERE ARE SPOILERS. NOTHING SPECIFIC BUT DO NOT READ IF YOU DON'T WANT THEM.










I have a few comments to make.

Firstly, I agree with Taure on the search in The Forest and the time spent with Adem dragged on for a tad too long, though I felt more frustrated with the second part than the first.

As with rinsimyaldee, I also happen to like Denna. While they definitely don't do right by each other, the interaction between the two has that quality of... sincerity. They honestly don't know what to make of each other, and the fumbling interaction between the two is quite raw in it's simplicity.

I enjoyed the scene with Felurian, though I believe the part with Ctheah was one that resonated with me the most. Quite a fascinating idea, and I look forward to see how it develops.

Bast again... shows a depth to his character that really isn't expected with the way he acts around Kvothe.

Anyway, this is all my ramblings at 3am. Over the next few days I intend to reread for The Name of the Wind, and then The Wise Man's Fear again. I will say that overall i thought the first book was better, but only barely so and in a different way.

 

SPOILERS AHOY

Spoiler

I just re-read some parts of it. The bit at the end where he's talking with Elodin seems significant. Elodin's reaction to a person changing their name, and how stupid it is. This is exactly what Kvothe seems to have done when he became Kote.

Re: Denna. I liked her well enough in Name of the Wind, though not as much as Fela. But I feel Rothfuss has changed the dynamic somewhat. In Name, it was clear Kvothe and Denna liked each other but were both too cautious to act on it. When drunk on the Dener resin, Denna says that he should push more. Now, in WMF, he did push more, and she outright rejected him, comparing him to her 'gentleman suitors'. That turned her from coy into vindictive.

Re: Felurian. Most teenage boys don't have a magical technique to rid their mind of emotion. Most teenage boys don't have sex with a supernatural being with sex magic that makes the whole thing rather dream-like. In short, I don't think the comparison apt.

---------- Post automerged at 05:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:29 PM ----------

So, my level of suspicion of Denna went massively up in this book. It's not quite enough for me to say, yet, that Denna is connected to the Chandrian, but still.

1. Her song was about Lanre. An odd choice.

2. Her conversation with Kvothe near the end about her "lovely" hair braid. The way she spoke about Yllish (spelling?) made it sound like she's a lot older than she looks. At the least she has knowledge that it would be odd for her to possess. But it's more than that. She talks about that knowledge as if everyone else is a youngster.

3. The vase from the farm. It has 8 figures, one of which is a woman. The Chandrian, by all accounts, are 7 in number. The song we're given at the end, with their names, have 7 names, but we're told about an eighth. So there seems to be a split between the 7 regular Chandrian and a woman who is not of their number, but connected with them. Denna is a perpetual runner. What's she running from, initially?

Very suspicious.

Against this, we have the whoring conversation, which was extremely human and not at all the kind of conversation you'd expect a mythical horror to have. We also have Denna's reaction to Kvothe's opinion on her song. She researched it, not knew it already. But even then, it seems odd that she would be able to collect such knowledge. Kvothe manages to, sure, but he has powers, knowledge and connections she doesn't have. And ran across Skarpi.

So we're definitely getting some mixed signals on this matter. But she's more suspicious in this book than the previous, I think.





SPOILERS GOODBYE

Random stuff:

Am I correct in thinking a span is 20 days, analogous to a score?

I only just figured out that Felling, Cendling etc. were the days of the week this morning. I had thought them to be holidays, like Halloween, etc. Lol.

 

Finished it the other night. Read it through in one sitting.

I agree with this:

Those parts seemed to drag a bit. Also agreed regarding Denna; I didn't care for her too much in TWMF.

I have many more thoughts but I have to go study for an exam and I would like to reread it before I come up with any theories.

I like your theory Taure regarding Denna and the Chandrian, and the previous person who hypothesized that Auri is Princess Ariel. I thought those very interesting

While great, it was not as good as the first. If TNoTW was a 10, I would give TWMF a 8.5 or 9. Awesome book though and the wait for the next is going to be torturous.

 

SPOILERS

I wasn't so surprised that he came out as "sex god!Kvothe" in the end; he did just spend several months to a year+ basically doing nothing but having sex with a woman who had several thousand years worth of experience. What was surprising was that she didn't realize he was a virgin. With that much experience, you'd think Felurian would be able to tell. Instead, she seems shocked and compliments him on his technique. You can't blame it on his mental powers since he wasn't using them at that point. And I don't think you can use Felurian's qualities to boost him up either. All in all, it's a minor quibble though.

And not only was it about Lanre, it also painted him in favorable terms. In fact, she seems offended when Kvothe tells her that Lanre was a monster (though part of that was because he was dissing her song).

I thought this scene was pretty odd as well. Seems strange that she would know Yllish when Kvothe could only find one person in the whole university who knew the language. Also, an interesting coincidence: the Chancellor falls ill after Kvothe tells Denna that he's learning Yllish. This was more likely a plot device to put Hemme in a position from which he could antagonize Kvothe further though.

I think the eighth person on the vase was the Amyr. In the drawing Nina gave Kvothe, there was one of the Amyr acting as though he was warding off the Chandrian. Unless there was another reference to an eighth that I missed?

I'll give you the whoring conversation (though it never was really clear what Denna was doing out that night before she ran into the girl; Kvothe assumed she was going to meet her patron, but that seems unlikely given the end result of the night), but all we have to go on for the song is her claim that she's researched it. Far all we know, she did know all of it already.

 

Just a note on the days of the week, I always assumed for some reason that a span was eleven days. I don't know where I got the number, but thats just what I thought.

SPOILER TIME

Denna. Taure said that she asked him to push in NotW and in WMF when he pushed she blew up at him. Not at all. He never pushes. She meant to push as in romantically, go in for the kiss, be more than a friend. When does he ever do that? Their argument starts over the fact that he insults her song, and it escalates to their respective lifestyles form there. She only compares him to the gentlemen suitors after he starts telling her she shouldn't be running around all the time.

Felurian. Plot wise it all fit in well, but it was sort of cheap to suddenly (in terms of book time) make Kvothe a sex god. It didn't really fit in well with everything else, which is usually gritty and hard won.

So yeah, I liked Taure's theory about Denna, but as coleam said, shes not accounted for in the vase picture. But on that topic, She does know Yllish, a dead language, and has some very problematic knowledge about Lanre and the events surrounding him. Personally, I think she's either Lyra or the female Chandrian herself. We don't know what her sign is, so I think shes either Alenta or Usnea, with their signs maybe only activating when with Haliax or after a long period of time (maybe why she runs?). Lyra because we know names can do some serious shit, including resurrection so why not?

Also on that topic, the eighth picture, of the Amyr. The amyr lends credence to the Denna as Chandrian theory. We know that the Amyr are an order of angels dedicated to destroying Lanre and his band of merry men led by Tehlu and including Selitos and some others from the old world. At some point, the name of this order was given to a religious military branch that may or may not have been related to the real order. Methinks that Kvothe's research here will lead him to the real Amyr, he'll fight with them only to find Denna as a Chandrian and then when he can't kill her he's hunted from both sides.

I think there might have been a couple of Chekov's guns in there as well. For one, the Leoclos box might have something to do with Kvothe's own unopenable box in the present.

 

Calling it now, Denna is not one of the Chandrian. Sure, we can't know for certain, but I just really do not think that she is.

As for what else sucks... I want to read a new book, but its just so had to find something that compares to the quality that was in The Wise Man's Fear.

 

Way of Kings by Sanderson, if you haven't already, mate.

As for WMF, I'm on my third re-read now.

Plenty to speculate about.

Cool non-plot related thing I noticed in the opening chapters. Kote has selas flowers growing out the back of the Waystone. Little details like that speak more about his character than a 100,000 descriptive words ever could. Awesome.

 

Spoilers
Does anyone remember that part in the barn where Denna twists her hair into a braid absently?

I think that by that point she already knew Yllsh and so she kind of twist her hair into braids to say something by habit. I wonder what she said? Also I think Denna was trying to hide her injuries from Kvothe during that time by insisting he goes first.

Also just a guess, but I think that Bast might be Kvothe's son with Felurian. It's mentioned that he has blue eyes, as does Felurian. We don't know what Reshi means. Time in the Fae world is obviously not the same as real world time.

The Adem pissed me off. I can understand them and stuff, but seriously I am so fucking pissed at them at them. It's like reverse misogyny with them. Led by woman, saying women are better at Leviothani than men, and having no concept of fatherhood, because women just pop babies out when they're ready, and just a lot of things about them piss me off. Their condescending attitude on top of all that really makes me hate them. I want somebody make them eat some humble pie.

I actually like Denna a bit more in this book. Auri was cute as usual. And Devi was awesome.

Also the ambisextrous joke was a laugh. The puns were funny too. Still now we see how Kvothe got three of his eight rings. Wood, Bone, and Wind.

End Spoilers

 

I was referring to the part where he says to her "love me" to which she responds "Don't talk to me" (said with her hair). He then gives her back her ring, at which point she says "Not you as well, I thought you were different".

 

She said that when he first mentioned he had a gift for her, and quick;y changed her mind upon seeing the gift, as I recall.

 

Even after seeing the gift she's still not affectionate. And that's still only one part of it. The worse part is her response to him saying "love me", which is supposedly what she had been wanting him to say.

 

True. In her defense though, when she told him to push more she was slightly intoxicated. And there's at least two other times he mentioned something she had said while drugged from the denner resin, and she had no recollection of it.

She is kind of a bitch, yeah, but it's not really malicious.

 

Lordy you would make a horrible cultural anthropologist ^.^
Go google trobriand islanders.

It is speculated that the yams that form the basis of the island diet have a contraceptive agent in them (The Pill was originally made by looking at chemicals in wild yams), which conveniently explains quite a bit, including the low birthrate despite the high level of sexual activity. Indeed, the whole idea lends quite a bit of support to the idea that material factors shape culture — after all, our own sexual revolution didn’t happen until we got the yam’s chemicals in pill form in 1960.

The island is matrilineal. The islanders were extremely promiscuous and the missionaries that came there had a hell of a time trying to explain the concept of a heavenly father in a society that did not have the concept of fathers. When women did get pregnant, they thought it was because the spirit of an ancestor decided to recycle itself. The woman's brother is who helps her raise her kids etc.

 

The god news.(This is a pun)

I am not trying to be a cultural anthropologist.

The bad news.

I still don't like the Adem.

Other news.

I neglected to mention this last time but LOL at the lettuce.

 

Finished it early this morning - meant I was exhausted at work, but fuck it.

TL;DR summary - excellent book, well worth the wait, a few minor niggles.

In more detail, as I think of them (I'm half asleep) [trying to avoid too many spoilers]:

Things I loved:
Elodin - this should be obvious.

Kvothe taking several levels in badass, magically speaking at least. God damn!

The magic - I just loved it. Kvothe was cool, obviously, but Bast's little demonstration in the inn sent a shiver down my spine.

The extended worldbuilding - it's a much richer book for it. For instance, I found the Adem language fascinating, if a little frustrating. Much more elaborately done than in The Name of the Wind.

The Ctheath (sp? I don't have it to hand). A little cliche, perhaps, but fantastically handled, and genuinely horrific.

Things I liked:
Kvothe's relationship with Wil, Sim etc - it's just so well done, but the whole University section did begin to drag a bit, of which more in a minute.

Denna - she's not a majorly likeable character, at the moment, but it's believable. I can relate to Kvothe's state of mind somewhat, which might make it a little easier for me to put up with the constant back and forth, but I hope it doesn't last too much longer without some sort of resolution.

Felurian - slightly disappointing, on reflection, however much fun that section was. The mention of her in Kvothe's boast in NotW made her out to be more than 'just' a sex goddess, but eh. On that note, I don't have a problem with sexgod!Kvothe. Sure, he was a virgin, but some people are just good at sex, and given his borderline Gary Stu status, it's not that much of a surprise that he turned out pretty well.

Vintas - again, not exactly a revolutionary take on a fantasy country, but Alveron is a great character. I hope we see more of him. Speaking of...

Spoiler

Meluan Lackless - Kvothe's aunt? Sister who ran of with a Ruh, sounds like his mother

The raised game between Ambrose and Kvothe - it's starting to get very sinister, and I approve. Similarly, it was awesome seeing a slightly different side of Devi.

Things that annoyed me:
Repetition, repetition, repetition - the camping sequence felt longer than the one in Deathly Hallows, believe it or not. The stories we heard during the trip were fun, but definite filler there. It's the same for the University - I know it's a biography, so not exactly following a strict narrative line, but he keeps hitting the same beats throughout. He gets away with it due to good writing and fun characters, but it still bugs me.

Kick the Dog - Kvothe just can't get a break. It's not really until the last 100 pages or so that his luck starts to change (generally speaking, I mean. Obviously, in the big scenes he's incredibly lucky). It's getting a bit much after the best part of 2000 pages, and it doesn't look like part 3 will be much better, let's face it.

 

SPOILERS (seriously, if you're still reading this thread and haven't finished the book yet then you probably shouldn't be here.)




Just finished this up and I must say it was awesome - everything I could have hoped for from the sequel to Name of the Wind. My one gripe is that, like Taure and others, I felt the fae portion was a little dragged out. Also, is it not possible to write a fantasy novel without incorporating prophecy into the mix? I was pleased when Rothfuss did a sort of backpedal at the end with Bast and Chronicler, but still.

A few things that struck me:

I really started to like Manet's character in the start of this story. It's really rare to see an older, more experienced character in a role that's not that of an authority figure or some kind of sage. His insights were very entertaining for me to read, and I greatly enjoyed the dynamic he added.

Kvothe is now Alveron's nephew by marriage?

The Adem were great. Arrogant and self-centered, yes, but also a wonderful dynamic set up against the rest of the society portrayed in this universe. It's clear that their culture is superior to the mainstream in some ways, but they are also severely lacking in others. Seeing the two sides of the coin makes Kvothe's quest to "know things" all the more worthy.

Kvothe in the present seems to be washed up in every way possible. Obviously he still has his wits about him, but he's years out of practice using any of his skills and he seems to have let many of them drift by the wayside. However, after reading this and looking back on the not-skinwalker scene in NotW where he tries to use combat sympathy, it's clear that Bast's plot is working and Kvothe is starting to "wake up" again. In WMF the change is even more pronounced. We see that when he's robbed, Kvothe chooses not to lay down and take it (as he was forced to do, and hated doing, up until about halfway through WMF) but tries to fight off the soldiers when it clearly wasn't needed. Kvothe is starting to get his backbone back. Most of all though, he starts doing the Ketan again after how many years in the final scene. Great ending.

Well, those are my first impressions after just finishing the story for the first time. Going to have to go back and reread both books now. I'm sure I'll have more later.

 

Anybody notice the three women who called Kvothe theirs?

Auri
Denna
Felurian

I remember something about his first lover calling him Dulador because she liked the sound of it, but I don't ever remember Felurian saying anythinig of the sort.