So he should let them all be exterminated so he can see his girlfriend again?
Imagine it for a second.
Odin:" But Thor, there are millions of Frost Giants out there, most of whom are innocent and never hurt a fly. Women and children, and entire planet-wide race. Would you want to be responsible for such a genocide?"

Thor: "I know it's wrong and all, but still, titties!"

:facepalm That's just not done.

And say it wasn't about his girlfriend, should he let Loki kill them all because they were at war some dozen years in the past?
So, by your logic, the majority of the world shouldn't give a fuck if an atomic bomb was suddenly dropped on Germany, right?

 

Only...that's not like this at all.

I'm not a Thor comics expert or anything, but the Jouton (well, at least the Frost Giants) are pretty much huge assholes that want to kill the Gods and Everyone. And at least, in this movie, that's also true, based on the beginning.

And, it's not even really so much that they're at peace. Odin just kicked their asses and rolled them for lunch money, taking away...what ever that thing was. There was 'peace' in that the Gods held all the cards, but the Frost Giants weren't happy with it, and were more than willing to jump at the chance to get back their power and go kill people.

And, you say millions of innocents, but...well. In the Myths, they were all monsters. In the movie, they were all monsters. In the comics...I dunno.

And since they'd tried stealing their power back, tried killing Odin, nearly killed Thor, and there had been long standing hostilities between the groups, including wars, and the Frost Giants nearly killed all life on...a lot of places...I'm really not feeling the 'they're innocent.' The closest to an innocent we'd seen was baby Loki, who'd been left out to die by his own father.

Seriously, remember that big Black Guy with the Gold Armor? The guy that watched the bridge? You know why he does that? It's to keepa look out for the Frost Giants, in case of attack. He has been standing there for thousands of years doing that, because the Frost Giants hate the Gods and the humans and life in general.

They are not a race being oppressed.

They're monsters that were pushed back to save the Worlds from being frozen into blocks of ice.

(Besides, even if they aren't monsters, they're still the God's enemies. Remember how everything that happened in the movie came from Thor's banishment? Remember why? Because...he gave the Frost Giants and excuse for war. Morality aside, 'they wanna kill you all and might be able to back it up' is a pretty good reason to start chargin your lasers, even if only as a threat.)

 

Ok, so we've established that they are not, in fact, innocent.
Being "monsters" does not change the fact that they are a race. And between you and me, they had as much right to kill Thor and Odin, as Odin and Thor had the right to kill them. And "stealing their power back", is something any race, group or person would try to do.
Look, I won't pretend to have read about Norse Mythology, or much of the Thor comics. I only speak from the conclusions I reached by watching the movie. And from the movie at least, they did not seem to me like monsters who hate life in general. They were a bunch of assholes that were at war with the gods. Does that give the gods the right to exterminate them? There is rarely the bad side which is 100% evil and the good side which is the embodiment of everything holy and stuff.

And I didn't say that Thor should like them or anything. But you asked "why should he care?" and I ask "why should he not care?". It's most un-heroic of him not to.

 

They are the bad guys. That excuses any action taken against them. Ever.

 

You aren't dealing with human characters or human factions here. They're another species that is an eternal state of war with the gods, the only peace coming when one side beats the shit out of the other hard enough to force a truce. They're basically demons (their name actually translates to man-eater, blood-thirster, giant, or troll) and there is no reason for an Aesir to give a fuck about their total extermination.

Using the analogy from your previous post, if Germany were populated by giant monsters who'd been at war with us on-again off-again since the dawn of man, then yeah, I doubt anyone would give a fuck if we nuked them.

 

Balance. The whole thing about the World Tree is that the worlds have to be balanced. If one's destroyed, they all get destroyed. So it wouldn't just have been the Frost Giants being wiped out - it would have been everything. Earth, Asgard, the whole lot.

I'm fairly sure that was actually mentioned in the film, but nevermind.

 

And Thor is a superhero. And superheroes of his caliber tend to want dudes the world would have been better off without to stay alive at all costs.
So there.

 

Huh? I thought that Loki himself being a Frost Giant raised by the Gods might have factored into it, i.e. trying to kill his own kind to prove something, and Odin & Thor trying to stop him from doing so.

Besides, I thought that while the Gods and the Frost Giants were old enemies, Odin did have a plan for Loki that could eventually bring about true peace? It sucked to have probably his life's work destroyed because of that too.

 

Just saw this at the IMAX.

Once I got over the pretty SFX, I was bored shirtless.

 

'Kay.

Probably. Luckily for Asgard, they don't have a giant bridge thing that could do it.

See, here's the problem. The Frost Giants do want to kill the gods. All of them. They tried, even. They just happened to fail.

As such, them being a race doesn't change all that much.

Well, the war they were at with the Gods was a war in which the Gods wanted to save billions of innocent lives and the FG's wanted to kill everyone in existence...

The Asgardian's are not Holy.

The Frost Giants want and tried to kill everyone everywhere, though, so yeah, they totally have murderin rights.

Well, I'm glad you asked.

Let's look at the movie.

Thor hates the Frost Giants who are the enemy of his people. They also ruin his big day. Okay, that makes since.

He goes to their world, pissed as hell, and ready to pick a fight with an entire race. Not exactly a smart thing to do, but it makes since for the character at the time.

He starts a war. Foolish, arrogant, stupid, brash, and a bunch of other things, but it makes sense for the character.

He gets sent to Earth and striped of his powers. Okay.

On Earth, he learns some life lessons...not completely sure which ones, though; I wish the movie was a bit longer. Even so, okay.

He eventually stands up to the Destroyer without any of his powers, ready to give his life to save innocent people. Okay.

Thor learns why he should save the lives of the sworn enemies of his race after they try to murder his mother and father and steal back their power.

Wait, what? When did he learn that? Saving lives without any regard for logic is a Superhero thing, sure, but what stage of his character growth caused him to do this?

Did it...? In that case, that probably should have been given a bit more focus.

Thor is new at this hero thing. He started as an arrogant prince and grew to be willing to give his life to save innocent people.

When did he learn the importance of letting people who want to kill all he knows and loves go?

Did Thor know? I mean, Odin hid it from everyone, even Loki.

A plan he stated had failed.

Also, only Odin knew about it, and he wasn't involved until the very end of this whole thing. The bridge was destroyed by the time he showed up.

 

This, and also, as seen in Loki... not all Frost Giants have to be evil. We've onyl really seen their military.
ANd if you claim Loki was evil in this movie... he wasn't. A touch fucked up, but not evil. And genociding everyone who is 'a touch fucked up' isn't something I though DLP would promote.

 

It seemed like his time powerless on earth (combined with him being unable to wield his own hammer because he is "unworthy") just matured him in general. He cooled off, grew up a bit, and realized that genocide is a pretty awful thing to do.

Are you sure you didn't accidentally walk into a theater playing Avatar?

 

Making that a bit more explicit in the film probably wouldn't have hurt. It was fairly obvious to me, but I've actually read a couple books on Norse mythology and some of the Thor comics, so I probably had an advantage over the average viewer who went in not knowing all the background.

 

First of all, I really liked Loki. Having said that, he sent the Destroyer to kill Thor (his brother) and his friends (who were also Loki's friends) just to keep him out of Asgard, plus a number of other stuff. He's not completely evil or anything, but he's kind of a dick and pretty morally dubious.

Also, Loki was raised by Odin and the Aesir, so he's kind of the best possible situation, and even he was wierd.

Also, en he thought that the world would be better of if the Frost Giants all died. So...

And did we just see their military? I mean, Thor and co were dropped down randomly into their world without any warning. A bunch of Frost Giants crawled out, but thee was nothing to say they were the military.

But none of that matters, because even if there are good and innocent Frost Giants (of which there is no proof), they obviously don't have much of a voice, since they couldn' stop the conquest of Worlds, or the War, or the assassination attempts, or...well, anything at all.

Like I said, I wish the movie had been longer so we'd gotten to see more of that. In the end, Thor stood up and was ready to give his life for his people, but he seemed ready to do that in the beginning, too.

But it's hard to show a lot of character growth for multiple characters in less than two hours.

But like I asked before, why did he realize genocide was bad?

Putting aside the morality of killing off the Frost Giants that want to murder his entire race and then the rest of existence...

Why did Thor think it was bad? He wasn't bothered by it in the beginning, so why at the end? I don't really care that he let the FG's go, but I want to know why.

Like, if he'd read about the Holocaust or some other Genocide, it would have been cliche (and not really comparable...), but it would have been something.

And if he'd gone out to punish evil-doers and in the process of, like, fighting an 'evil' country, he hurt an innocent woman and her children and they thought he was the monster (like he'd thought the FG's were), that would have been even better. It wouldn't have changed that the FG's want to kill him, everyone he loves, and life in general, but it would have made a certain amount of sense.

But basically, Thor was sent to Earth, thought crazy, put in the hospital, drank some coffee, failed to pick up his hammer, got arrested, got released, and then stood up so his friend's weren't hurt.

It showed character growth, but what made hm say 'Actually, I don't want to kill all the Frost Giants'?

I've seen Batman let the Joker go enough times not to care when the good guy let's the bad guy go for no reason, but why did Thor do it?

Batman has the oath of his, but Thor's from a warrior race and was mowing down Frost Giants left and right, like...fifteen minutes into the film. For calling him a princess. As far as he knows, they just tried to murder his father; why does he suddenly give a shit?

It's fine if something happened to change his opinions on killing the Frost Giants, but...did anything?

It would have helped, yeah.

 

He was also extremely angry at the beginning of the movie, what with them deciding to bring up their shit and interrupt his crowning ceremony and all. Like I said, he grew up and cooled off. The combination of those things could conceivably be enough to make him decide that genocide is not okay.

They could have, and probably should have spent more time on it in the movie, but it's not really unreasonable for him to change his mind about that.

 

Maybe Thor realized that Frost Giants are people too? Or at least coming close to it?
He said that Loki can't just kill an entire race. Maybe he meant it. Thought of that?
So, if Thor, who was so far seen no giving a fuck and killing them left and right, suddenly gives a shit about Frost Giants, doesn't that mean that they are, if not people, something? That killing them was not like killing pests or vermin, but genocide?

Also, since that dude that was the Leader of the FGs was where Thor landed, I'd assume that they didn't, in fact, land randomly throughout the planet.

In any case, they needed something to show that Thor had indeed become heroic, so what better way than saving his enemies?

 

Yeah, the way I saw, they did the equivalent of beaming down in the middle of the White House an marching to the Oval Office: troops were pretty much guaranteed the only thing they'd encounter.

 

Are we really psychoanalyzing a movie based very loosely on an inconsistent comic book character based very loosely on a Norse myth?

I haven't seen it yet, and you armchair shrinks are fucking killing it for me. >:-<

 

Leaving aside my earlier point, don't forget that Thor is, more or less, a Proud Warrior Race Guy. Destroying an entire world isn't as honourable as going down there and beating the shit out of each of them individually.

 

And...what convinced him of this? Them acting like monsters?

And why did he suddenly start to care?

Here's the thing:

When did Thor come to believe that? And why? What caused him to believe that?

All he did in the movie was stand up, ready to give his life for the people he cared about...which he seemed willing to do at the beginning of the movie.

He thought it was okay to just up and kill the FG's at the beginning of the movie. He did not think it was okay to do that to anyone else, and risked his life to protect them (from the FG's). The latter did not change throughout the movie. Why did the former?

Nobody was even supposed to be allowed there, so it's unlikely they were expected.

You see, I don't really see it. The FG's wanna kill all lie everywhere. I don't see how protecting them and allowing them to continue their attempts says 'heroic.'