The simple existence of Flamel as a functionally immortal "good" guy speaks against the idea that Dumbledore's and Harry's acceptance of death is good, and Voldemorts avoidance and fear is bad. It doesn't really fit.

If Voldemort's only goal had been immortality by not dying of old age, trying to get the Stone would have been a much smarter idea. Obviously other concerns dictated that the circumstances would mean death by rebound were more probable than death by old age. If a ghostly Voldemort could break into Gringotts, surely he could have managed to get to the stone at the height of his power with a bit of preparation.

As far as the creation goes, I like the philosophical idea. There's a quote from somewhere mentionend

This would neatly fit into the idea that, once enlightened enough to make the Stone, you would also be able to do other things with Alchemy. The following success in Alchemy would then be misattributed to the stone.

Still, the idea that any such achievement also requires a sacrifice is an attractive one.

 

In the end of the first book Flamel "redeems" himself by accepting death and allowing the stone to be destroyed though, doesn't he?

 

Eh -- I have a hard time believing two people obsessed with immortality would willing give up their source of power for the "good of the many."

 

There is already such a "good guy". Ignotus literally hides from Death until he decides in his old age that he has lived enough and gives his cloak to his son.

 

We know for sure that Flamel was practically immortal while he had the Stone and we know that Ignotus could hide from Death, but nothing is said about how old Ignotus was when he passed the Cloak on to his son. For all we know he lived the average lifespan and the "hiding from Death" part was about not dying early, as both of his brothers did.

Iggy essentially showed up Death when he asked for the Cloak, which Death didn't like. Antioch and Cadmus died soon enough, but Death annoyingly couldn't take Ignotus prematurely. That's my interpretation. Two people in the series that are actually "more than mortal" in my view are Flamel and Voldemort.

What I'm saying is, Ignotus wasn't actually after immortality, just after not dying before he lived a full life, which is different from Flamel and Voldemort.

 

Yeah, I don't think any part of the Tale of the Three brothers is really about immortality. None of the three Hallows give a longer life span or immortality, and none of the three brothers seemed to want immortality. Indeed, the brother who is supposed to be the "good brother" is the one who most seeks to avoid death, though even he just wanted to hide from death for the span of his natural life.

Remember that the myth of the "master of death" isn't actually a part of the Tale, but rather is part of the mythology that sprung up around the tale.

 

Well this turned into a thing...

The Tale of the Philosopher


Nick and Nelly Flamel were alchemists, and Nelly was a Metamorph; using Nelly's blood, they developed an elixir of vitality that could restore youth to a person, resetting their aging clock. The essence of the trick was to grant a specific instance of Nelly's metamorphic talent to the person so that they could transmogrify (one-way) into what they wished to be.

The elixir of life allowed one to make permanent, perfect transmogrifications, because Nelly imbued that part of her identity into it.

Rather than explain that the elixir was merely a ferment of magical substances somewhat available (Nelly wasn't keen on becoming wizard Europe's blood bank), they came up with the plan for the philosophers stone- a quartz crystal rock that would collect and accumulate ambient magic to regenerate the mercury-like substance that was the elixir.

Complications arose, and Nicolas saw his wife pouring her heart and soul, literally, into the making of the stone. He joined into the effort, giving his lifeblood towards their project. Perenelle made the elixir possible, and she succeeded in making the stone to renew the supply at the cost of her life. Nicolas gave his magic as well, but it was her being that drove the enchantment.

And so the 'immortal' Nicolas Flamel lost all that he had in the pursuit of what he thought he wanted, and became a widower and squib. For seven hundred years he used the elixir to appear as both himself and his wife, as alchemy was the only magic he actually commanded anymore.

Albus Dumbledore deduced the truth of Nicolas' centuries of deception during his apprenticeship prior to the Great War. Discovering that his childhood hero was a bit of a fraud and not the powerhouse of knowledge and skill that he had expected, he nonetheless learned from the man. At the end of his educational collaboration, he prevailed upon Nicolas to ask himself a simple but profound question: "If the essence of Nelly is still in the rock, doesn't that mean she can't move on to her well-deserved paradise until you destroy it?"

Albus was content to let his colleague answer that question for himself at his own pace, but decades later he became aware of Voldemort's interest in the stone. He asked the second question to confound Nicolas: "If (or rather when) he finds you, can you truly stop him from taking Nelly away from you?"

Nicolas gave it over to him, and Albus swore to protect the stone but not destroy it, even as he knew that Voldemort would inevitably find it; such objects and such beings have a gravity.

Albus arranged the best possible defense for the stone- for it to be defended by Voldemort's nemesis on Earth, a young boy named Harry. Even so, Voldemort wasn't fully vanquished and Albus prevailed upon Nicolas once more to present his case: "He won't stop if Nelly's still out there to tempt him. Are you ready to rejoin her finally?"

"No," Nicolas replied. "Dear boy, don't you understand? I've been hiding from her on the ground rather than face her in the heavens. For how can she forgive me for what I did to her for the sake of the elixir? To end this purgatory means that I'll have to answer to her."

Albus didn't ask any more questions. He sat with Nicolas in silence for hours as they drank through the best bottles of wine from the Flamel cellar.

The night ended and Nicolas perked up out of his drunken stupor, recognising Nelly's favorite haircolour in the rising dawn.

"I'm ready, now."

 

I'll always be of the opinion that the best way for the Philosopher's Stone to have been created, is through capturing many souls within the stone, and feeding off of their vitality.

 

When the stone is mentioned in the book it says first that it's used to make gold. Also traditionally Alchemy is first and foremost concerned with making gold from other metals, with things like the Elixir of Life as a secondary aspect. This makes me think that the pursuit of immortality isn't the main objective in creating the stone so nothing like sacrifices or any of that shady business would be involved.

My personal theory is that the stone is just the pinnacle of Alchemical study to make gold, and the elixir of life is a sort of by-product, not the main function of the stone.

 

My headcanon, mostly inspired by two specific fics and a little Fullmetal lore, is that Flamel was the antithesis of Voldemort. He sought immortality not for fear of death, but for love of life. He had a wife, children, etc and he wanted it to last forever.

As for creation, I really like the idea that the creation of a life-giving stone requires a sacrifice of life. Bit of a wink at Horcrux creation requiring murder. But Flamel, being young and foolhardy, didn't anticipate this. He created the stone, and his entire bloodline was consumed as fuel in the process.

 

Yea. If the stone is a morally neutral way of gaining immortality than every wizard not frantically trying to create one is just a fool and Flamel is an arsehole for not teaching it to anyone and everyone he can.

On the other hand just requiring acts of unspeakable evil is also unsatisfying. For one thing Horcruxes already cover that area.

So perhaps some sort of a great personal sacrifice?

Flamels never had any children. So perhaps that is what needs to be given up. But that would mean that all the wizard alive at that moment would be the last wizards to ever exist. Since the stone doesn't protect from accidents/violent deaths the wizarding population would decrease over time. Flamel decides that this must be avoided so he doesn't share his formula and does all he can to suppress any information on it.

 

I see it more as the Stone is so exceptionally difficult to make. You'd need to dedicate your life to the study, and even then most people who do so wouldn't manage to do it. Most people don't do it because they couldn't even if they wanted to.

 

I like the enlightenment idea. The requirement of the acceptance of death in order to live a long, productive life.

 

I would like your post, KHAAAAAAAAAAN!! , but it seems I don't have enough posts to do so.

I like the more Fullmetal Alchemist take on it. Not necessarily that one has to sacrifice dozens of human lives but rather, that the creation of the stone, like attempting human transmutation and reaching the truth, forces you to sacrifice the one thing that you treasured/needed the most. For Flanel, it could be a number of things, but it really all depends on his reasons for creating it. Maybe it was to heal their child and payment was just that or something.

The problem with the Philosopher's Stone being the product of a a purely "good" process, is that, in that case, it should have been a bit more widespread. Seems to me that you would only keep it to yourself if the process is a) something that should not be attempted by others or b) Flanel was just hoarding it for himself, not even giving Dumbledore the knowledge, which seems petty. I mean, sure, you don't want everyone to have immortality, but you would at least share it with Dumbledore, his long time partner and collaborator.

 

It seems likely that the process can't be shared. Or rather, sharing the process is insufficient to create the stone, because it's a deeply personal matter. In traditional alchemy, the physical transformation of substances is symbolic of the transformation occurring internally in the alchemist's soul. Transmutation of lead to gold is not the ultimate achievement because gold is valuable, it's the ultimate achievement because it signifies that the alchemist's soul has undergone a similar transformation by which it achieves perfection. This perfection was considered a state of gnosis in the ancient world, but in post-Christian alchemy (of which Flamel is a part) the transformation of the soul is likened to salvation (i.e. the forgiveness of original sin). So as the physical substance is perfected (into gold), so too is the soul (into a state of enlightenment).

So even if Flamel told Dumbledore the procedure for making the philosopher's stone, unless Dumbledore had the spiritual constitution to make the transformation, he would be unable to make the stone.

 

I think the main problem with the Stone being a complete anti-horcrux is that it would be boring. Horcruxes are spicy, it's what makes them so delicious.

 

That was fucking gorgeous.

 

Plenty of arguments to be made against the possibility of making everyone immortal. After all, it means immortal Hitler, Stalin, Mao...

Of course, the counter-argument would be "Don't give power-hungry psychos immortality juice." But once you bring up the idea that some people get immortality and some don't, all kinds of new issues spring up. Who decides who gets to be immortal? How do you make sure they don't abuse that power? Because governments in both the wizarding and real world commit plenty of abuse without having absolute control over who lives and who dies. Imagine what would happen if Voldemort takes over the Ministry, and puts in a new policy of 'No immortality for Muggleborns.'

So let's say Flamel keeps the stone himself and makes sure there's enough Elixir for every single wizard in the world. Except then wizards would also want to start giving Elixir to non-wizards. Wizarding families would want to immortalize squibs, Muggleborns and Half-Bloods their muggle friends and family, and so on. And then some of those muggles would want to give their friends and family immortality too...

So you just make the entire human race immortal. Sounds simple enough, right? Of course, that assumes no governments, warlords, crime syndicates, or other groups try to seize control of or disrupt the supply of Elixir. But even if you can keep it perfectly distributed to everyone, a new issue's going to crop up pretty quickly:

According to a quick Google, around 350,000 people are born every day, while 150,000 people die. Subtract that 150k death rate, and you've just doubled the rate of world population growth. This at a time when there are already lots of worries about keeping the planet sustainable at our current growth rate.

So what do you do? A China-esque "One Child" policy? Because that worked really well when China tried it. But you'd have to do something to keep global population under control. So now we've got a government that decides who dies because it controls the supply of Elixir, and who's born because unauthorized births are illegal. Sounds incredibly totalitarian to me.

Considering that possibility, it's no wonder the Flamels decided to not rock the boar.

 

All this presupposes that the philosopher's stone is the result of a wizard's actions and machinations. What if it was some kind of naturally occurring phenomena that Flamel (and perhaps others in the past, leading to the myth of achemy) stumbled upon. The legend of the fountain of youth is a prime example. Perhaps Flamel was an early conquistador and stumbled upon it in the new world, capturing its power.

Apart from that, I can think of a number of ways that could be plausible 'natural circumstances' for the stone to be created. To me, this background would lend itself to an interpretation of the stone as a perversion. It becomes an incredibly powerful component of the magical environment bent towards the purposes of man - wealth and immortality. The stone becomes a siphon of the planet's magic, lessening the greater world for an individual's purposes.

I like a more singular genesis because I think it preserves the uniqueness of the stone. From what I've read, fics that too clearly lay out the steps of creation run the hazard of making you wonder why nobody else makes one. Even if the costs are high, there have been all too many individuals throughout history willing to pay.