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Tom Riddle not accepted into Hogwarts

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Download, Apr 28, 2016.

  1. Download

    Download Auror ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Lets say that for some reason (the why doesn't really matter), Dumbledore is troubled enough by Riddle when he meet him that he wipes their meeting from Riddle's mind and leaves him at the orphanage. What do you think would happen?

    Would he learn enough magic on his own to become a threat? Would he go on to have nation conquering aspirations in the Muggle world? Would the MoM deal with him even if he keeps his abilities a secret?

    ---------- Post automerged at 14:31 ---------- Previous post was at 14:29 ----------

    Or make it worse, Dumbledore leaves him with his memories intact.
     
  2. chaosattractor

    chaosattractor Groundskeeper

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    I...really don't think that decision is in any way up to Dumbledore.

    Like, this question is entirely focused on the cool story idea and not the "what the fuck Dumbledore" he's going to be getting from everyone starting from Dippet.
     
  3. Quiddity

    Quiddity Squib ~ Prestige ~

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    Left without memories, Riddle develops his abilities and struggles to break through class barriers, eventually entering muggle (probably Labour) politics. Claws his way to the top, using his charisma, intelligence, and small doses of magic. Then he becomes PM, and discovers magic.

    ...but there's not really anything he can do. (Let's ignore muggle vs. wizards.) Knowing that there is magic, and that it is far more powerful than he can achieve without it, does he try to develop magic, either through an odd late Hogwarts-entry or self-tuition, this time 30-years behind the curve? Or does he hold on to his muggle power?

    (The above assumes no ministry detection of wandless magic, which kinda leaves this AU pointless.)

    With memories, the same except he knows there's others, and he actively tries to find them. Where it goes from there depends on if/when he finds them, and whether Hogwarts accepts late entries.
     
  4. Alpaca Queen

    Alpaca Queen Fourth Year

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    That is actually probably the most plausible reason for a muggle/wizard war I can think of, and the most likely to succeed on the muggles' end. Just imagine Riddle resentful at the wizards instead of the muggles, using purchased Polyjuice and eventually Imperio to impersonate elected Prime Ministers well past his term as he slowly grows more and more powerful, maybe even infiltrating the Ministry of Magic, eventually reaching the point where he can use both sides to orchestrate the unveiling and mass slaughter/subjugation of those that left him in the orphanage he hated...all culminating as Harry Potter begins attending Hogwarts.

    ...Or maybe it'd end up being a massive muggle wank with the wizards holding multiple idiot balls around the clock. I don't know, I ain't gonna write that shit.
     
  5. chaosattractor

    chaosattractor Groundskeeper

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    It can only end up as wizard bashing or muggle wank. Because what would actually happen would be that young Tom uses magic at some point during his aborted first year, the Trace picks him up, the Ministry chucks him in Hogwarts, and life goes on as usual.

    Unless you decide to throw all characterization out the window and have stalker!Dumbledore running around Obliviating Dippet and half the Ministry to keep one boy out of school.
     
  6. Download

    Download Auror ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    You're assuming a lot about the trace.
     
  7. chaosattractor

    chaosattractor Groundskeeper

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    Like what?
     
  8. Alpaca Queen

    Alpaca Queen Fourth Year

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    The Trace is something that not a lot concrete is known about. People have made a number of different guesses, but all in all the main question here is when the Trace is applied: at birth or once a child begins studying magic? If the former, then you are correct and Riddle would be caught immediately; if the latter, he might never be caught.

    Of course, while application at birth may seem more sensible, the evidence can just as easily point to the latter, given all the incidences of children performing magic in plain sight of muggles (and even Hagrid in PS) with no Ministry reaction. If the Trace were present from birth, one would expect somebody to have intervened when Riddle was torturing muggle children, or when Ariana was tortured by muggle children, or when (as previously mentioned) Hagrid used a pink umbrella that definitely didn't contain the pieces of his broken wand to give Dudley a pig's tail.

    But this isn't the Trace thread, so I don't think we should have the full extent of that debate here. I think it will be enough to agree that canon is vague enough and both sides are plausible enough that, were you to write a fanfic assuming either, nobody reasonable would object.

    Additionally, with regards to the Ministry forcing Riddle into Hogwarts, it has been seen in canon (OotP, to be specific) that the Ministry has to actively pass legislation before they are capable of interfering in Hogwarts affairs. Given that Hogwarts predates the Ministry by centuries, this makes sense: they are a private institution and thus endure far less government oversight, and so it is doubtful that the Ministry could force Hogwarts to accept Riddle should Dumbledore convince Dippet to forbid it.

    All in all, while a fic in which Riddle wages war on the Wizarding World may very well turn out to be a muggle wank, I doubt it would be for the reasons stated. Rather, it would be due to his inexperience with the world precluding his infiltration of it, or due to his late start making him weaker magically than he is in canon, or any number of similar disadvantages which would necessitate the author to forcibly rebalance the universe in favor of the muggles. Additionally, while the fact that a magical person leads the muggles does somewhat prevent the thematic juxtaposition of science and magic that is commonly seen, it does not prevent the similar juxtaposition of rationality and magic. As such, it is distressingly likely that a story in which Riddle is raised muggle would involve him using muggle methods in magical research to great effect, like in Methods of Rationality.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2016
  9. World

    World Oberstgruppenführer DLP Supporter Retired Staff

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    There's a short oneshot that skirts this topic.
     
  10. Quiddity

    Quiddity Squib ~ Prestige ~

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    Yeah, I had that in mind (though it seems Riddle went to Hogwarts there, so it's not quite the same).
     
  11. ThatGreekLady

    ThatGreekLady Fourth Year

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    I imagine he would still become a threat one way or another. Perhaps not a threat to the wizarding world, but definitely a threat to the muggle world.
     
  12. themanynamed

    themanynamed Squib

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    Hmm, Tom Riddle minus his magic? Still a scary customer to be sure. I'd say he'd play it Steerpike style. He'd climb the ranks but it would probably end in disaster because he just can't help himself.
     
  13. mistermisstep

    mistermisstep First Year

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    The Gormenghast books are my favorite series, so I'm on board with this right here.

    As to the premise in the original post up top, a more "human" Riddle could be a very frightening guy, especially if he had reason to take revenge on magical Britain for wrongfully (in his view) shutting him out. Even as a child, he was clever, ruthless, and suspicious. I don't see that changing if he didn't go to Hogwarts. I imagine he'd do anything to get his hands on a wand, and the lack of a one wouldn't keep him from seeing things that Muggles couldn't. Or doing things that they couldn't. Given enough time, he could probably locate Diagon Alley. Wizards aren't exactly inconspicuous.

    After he learns enough about magic and how to use it, he might even go so far as to rally others to his cause, people who were similarly cast aside by the powers that be, like Squibs, werewolves, vampires, other half-breeds and creatures, Muggle-borns whom the system failed, goblins, and so on.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2016
  14. Purplear

    Purplear Squib

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    Hmmm... given his character, I would say that he would inevitable still find his way into the magical world. I can see a great story plot around that, where he stays in the streets for a while after leaving the orphanage, stumbles into the magical world, and gets himself into Beaubatons or Drumstrang...
     
  15. Anathemaliana

    Anathemaliana Squib

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    If Dumbledore leaves him alone; obliviation or not, he'd still pose a threat to the muggles given his personality and surroundings then eventually get discovered by the ministry by using magic in muggle areas.

    Well not if he discovers the wizarding world first.
     
  16. Reaper

    Reaper Squib

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    This kind of reminds me of a fanfiction I read long ago (Xerosis by Batsutousai) where the muggles essentially ruined the world with nukes, radiation and all the nasty things at their disposal because their prime minister was a jealous little fiend over the fact he couldn't do magic. I could imagine Tom Riddle, in his thirst for vengeance killing wizards and muggles alike to what equates to a world war. Considering he did kill his own father it's not that hard to believe he would kill wizards for taking away an amazing opportunity.

    Voldemort always felt special as a child, and he despised all the other children. Finding proof that his chance to be special was taken away years later would, in blunt terms, piss him off.
     
  17. Xiphos Pila

    Xiphos Pila Squib

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    I think he would still continue to learn if extremely limited however eventually the ministry of magic would catch up to him. When this happens, well Tom Riddle is a muggleborn would be most peoples thoughs so he would probably be sent to Azkaban and realistically Toms not the only powerful wizard ever sent to Azkaban so it probably has wards or something so the prisoners can't do magic, then he would rot away and die ...
     
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