Actually, the one time I *tried* to flame on DLP was about 4 to 6 months ago after WAAAAY too many drinks. I too apologized afterward and was probably considered a "pussy" for doing so. My apology was warranted, though - I should never drink then converse. Let's face it, lightweight or not, drinking and flaming is just a bad idea all around.

Actually, isn't your explanation exactly what Mr. 82 was asking for - thoughtful analysis instead of a brainless dismissal? I completely agree that the premise can make or break a story. Yes, "Bungle" was started with a cliche. But, from Chapter 1, "Bungle" was an out-of-the-ordinary story. Mr. Bern started with a cliche turned on its ear and viewed from an abnormal POV. Then things got crazy.

As a matter of fact, I can't think of a single writer that posts on this forum whose work could be mistaken for "normal". ;-)

This I have to disagree with. Mr. Bern is no stranger to a cock-eyed view of the world. This view of Luna is also somewhat cliched, and "Bungle" is the first instance of a fic I've read with this Luna plot device that actually worked.

BTW I thought having a single parent with child as Harry's first "lust interest" was a bold move on Mr. Bern's part. Bold, because it's what would happen in a well-crafted Muggle drama, not in well-written fantasy or science fiction. Nonetheless, it was carried off quite well as a sometime-B-sometimes-A-storyline that showed a more mature look at a relationship than one usually sees in HP fanfic.

Right. Nuff said for now. Flame on.

EDIT:

Sree, suffice it to say that you shouldn't draw a conclusion without reading the story. If you read the story with an unbiased perspective, I can support you loving or hating Luna's portrayal. Second hand doesn't do it proper justice (or injustice) in this case.

 

Well he sorta used the canon Luna and made that like a public face and shes completely sane in private. Its basicly a mask. She is still kinda looney from going from mask to real all the time and is unbalanced.

 

Canon Luna was designed as a comedic relief. Sure, she can be used in that form as a romantic interest, but IMO that's more suited for outright comedies, that don't pay much attention to realism or believable characterization.

Bungle went with sort of gritty realistic atmosphere, which means that Luna became a real character, not a caricature. She's still cookie, but she also has her demons and flaws that Bungle had demonstrated.

*Shrugs* Someone may like it, others wont. Matter of taste I guess.

 

Eh i guess ip82 has the point though I still disliked the mask of looniness, basing on the fact that its suppose to be great fun? Yea right getting things stolen is fun.

Plus, canon Luna works pretty well in the The Blood Tipped Feather, so I'm sure it can work.

 

I have to say that the long distance relationship they had was impossible to coinside with canon!Luna. Though one of my favorite ships is Harry/Luna, I didn't have a bit of a problem with Luna having dark undertones and split personalities. Sree, it's not as much of a fake as something she's grown so accustomed to doing that she just can't turn it off when she gets into public. It's now a literal other side to her personality, which is an interesting difference between most Lunas in fanon. Either they try to pull out the crazy!Luna or they completely shut her off with the fakecrazy!Luna. This one has both.

Honestly, Jbern has grown as a writer, just like I did between the span of a few months back at the beginning of 2007. I had no problems with cliches, SIYE, and other things that I hate now that my mind has been warped by you people. So the beginning of his story annoys me now, big deal. He took one of the cliche templates when he wasn't such a thourough and thought out writer and used it. Now he's changed.

For Jbern's side, I can say that his action scenes are awesome, he adds darker undertones along with casual humor whenever it's needed, and his characterization and relationships are well thought out and not cookie-cutter. People have problems, differing emotions, betrayels. While not everything he does is awesome, I can look past quite a few things that bug me in Denarian Renegade and still give the story a 5/5.

You hate it, you hate it, but give me a reason. I'm probably wrong, but I never remember large e-peen wars in the Bungle thread over his writing and I don't know where this came from. Seems like some hatred of AFC getting into this argument. I don't agree with some of Jbern's thoughts on some matters, but when I think of memorable authors I think of Jbern and that Flairgold chick for their amazing action scenes, Nonjon for humor, and Shezza for not only action scenes but also characterization(before you say anything, this was truth and not me trying to earn brownie points. My opinion of authors is my own).

 

Where'd u get that impression? I just thought she messed around on purpose from the letters.

 

Luna got one scene and maybe a dozen letters in Bungle--a few thousand words, at most, in a story than ran 23 chapters and almost 185,000 words.

Some people may have honest reasons for not having enjoyed BitJ, but I can't see Luna being one of them. (and of course it raises the question of why they'd bother reviewing the sequel at all. Attention-whore much?)

 

Just because something, or someone as the case may be doesn't play a large part in the story doesn't mean it can't sufficiently irk someone to not read one.

I read most of Bungle, I stopped reading FF altogether at one point for some reason and haven't finished Bungle since I started again but I can say Luna was an aspect of the fic I didn't like. She played a prank on everyone? Ok, I can deal with that but when she does something like that and then continually gets pissed off at Harry it got rather annoying.

Over all what I read of Bungle it was a good fic, with some very strong points and some very weak points.

Jbern is anything but a 'solid' writer as he writes something exceptionally well and other things poorly.

He writes important scenes well, and high impact high tension scenes but he struggles when it comes filler or adding subplots which is more important as it sounds as a well written story needs to be able to keep peoples attention throughout not just during the climax.

Canon can't be cliche.

 

My kneejerk response to the first chapter's lukewarm at best.
The great action scene you started off with had already been posted and read a few weeks back and the rest was okay but nothing outstanding. I kept being tempted to fast forward just to read the eventual showdown between the betrayers and the betrayee which.. didn't happen. I mean this was the basic premise of bungle and it's been in our heads since chapter one. So yeah I got disappointed but then I just have to remind myself that if you reviewed something chapter by chapter it just wouldn't work. That you have to set the stage first before the show starts.

Then I just grumble that I think your first chapter was too short and that you should have included whatever you've planned as chapter two too

I'm sure you've got lots of goodies planned but as far the story is a whole, it's nothing outstanding and certainly not deserving of a 5/5 or a 4/5 yet.

 

Lol, I just skipped the Luna parts when I read the story, so I still love it. I hate reading letters in fics.

QFT

 

Shhhh, that was more of a way to get Sree to read an enjoyable story then anything. Actually, I truly did get that impression from her letters and I honestly can't remember why. Far too lazy to go back and check, but hopefully I'm right about that and Jim will make it apperant in the story when we finally get into Hogwarts. Can someone give me a link to thes schedule? I can't find it.

 

Actually, if I remember correctly, it's both. During her first year, she was truly Loony - a consequence of the accident that had killed her mother. Later on, she got better, but she was already an outcast and a laughing stock of the house.

So, she basically did the 'sour grapes' routine - if she can't get normality and friends, she'll convince herself she doesn't need them. Instead, she'll make her shitty situation into a big joke, thus mentally presenting her failure at social life as something she actually wanted and even likes. Like a guy who get fired from a high-paying job and then convinces everyone - including himself - that he himself had quit out of moral concerns or some shit like that. A common enough situation.

BTW this is my personal analysis - not jbern's 'official' explanation.

 

Women do this. Frequently. For no reason (or at the very least, reasons beyond my comprehension.)

Trying to explain yourself to a woman who's determined to be pissed off... no point in it mate. Apologize, let 'em cool off, apologize again, then either try explaining yourself once more... or just leave it alone and pray she doesn't bring it up again (Because they never forget.)

Actually I think Harry, in one of his letters, stated that Luna was using it as a crutch. I'm just too tired to go back and look, otherwise I would.

EDIT: Oh wow, realized I hadn't actually gotten around to reviewing the story yet.

Firstly, Jbern, thanks for getting it out when you did. Made a great birthday gift.

I really don't have any complaints.

I'm always skeptical of Harry becoming a badass over the course of a single Summer, no matter how he does it. These Harry's generally learn all sorts of shit that they don't really need... Why the fuck are you reading the godly potions masters manual of epicness and smirking when you should be practicing eviscerating people!? BiTJ Harry learned what he needed to know to survive, and the gaping trench separating the two halves of Dolohov testifies to that fact.

5/5

Grats

 

IP has a point about Luna and I agree with that. The reason she got so POed at Harry was that he saw something on one else ever say, the real Luna. That scared her I think, so she was just looking for a way to get rid of him. But to just stop talking to him would prove him right, something I've known women to go to extremes to avoid, so she tried to make him be the one to break off their friendship and thus justified, in her own eyes, her assumption that no one really cares for her. In essence she blame her insecurities on him. Hence the arguments. Probably not jberns take but it fits what happened.

On the point of Harry learning too quickly I would like to point out that he was not in a safe environment like Hogwarts. There were lots of nasties in the Jungle and his life, and more importantly his teammates lives, could depend on him. So he had plenty of incentive to study hard and practice, without taking into account the training methods of Kwan.

I just would like to ask one thing. Could someone please explain what they thought the start of Bumble was weak?

 

Well, I don't think it was weak so much as horribly cliche. Truthfully, I skipped over almost all of the beginning and still understood what happened later on.

Then there's the unlikliness of everyone betraying him, it seemed a bit extreme. Kinda wondering how Jbern is gonna deal with it now considering how bad it was with everyone drugging him.

 

To be honest, this betrayal is rather mild in a way compared to what other people have written. I mean I can atleast understand the reasoning behind the drugging. A Harry who has difficulties expressing himself as a result of his unwanted fame and neglected and perhaps abused childhood doesn't an emotionally stable man make.

If we assume that Dumbledore didn't expressively order Harry's friends to drug him up but merely try and cheer him up, perhaps an exclamation in private mentioning how it might do Harry good to have a girlfriend or so.. Because he sincerely wish Harry would be happy, then it could easily become something that the Weasleys, perhaps even Minerva would think of and then come up with the drugging. Of course they'd justify themselves in saying Harry would never have the guts to do anything about it himself even though he'd really want to.
And then it'd just spiral out of control with Ron being jealous as usual and then Molly would happily agree to fix up the memory spells and more love potion so she can have her happy family with more redheads.
Basically everyone Harry knows except for Bill thinks they know Harry better than Harry does. In no way does this justify anything but atleast the premise is more plausible than the shitty Azkaban!Harry stories floating around with him getting life for a murder anyone with half a brain could figure out he couldn't have done, followed by the angsty betrayed by friends shitfest.

I can easily believe that a lot of people who "betrayed" Harry were just silent accomplices, but an accomplice nontheless. Caught up in whatever scheme the real evil overlord, Molly Weasley concocted! I hate her guts.

Please please do not cop out on the confrontation, whoever's guilty. Make it juicy, make it feel. So many stories have Harry have his glorious come-upance and then a few paragraphs later it's never mentioned again with everything back to normal. Legal repercussions, lawsuits, prison time! And mention how miserable they are! Hell even make that into a plot device.

 

re: the "cliche'd" betrayal...

Keep in mind the extremely limited perspective, and that all you've seen is Harry's interpretation of what went down at the Weasley house. He (and we) have been forced to draw conclusions based on the little bits that he was aware of.

Without spoiling anything, it's safe to say that there was a lot more going on than Harry knows about.

 

On Luna: The canon-cookie is a fairly two-dimensional gag that i can't see as a real person in any way. The BungleLuna is a person. Messed up, sure, but i've met stranger folks. Jbern manages to get into the heads of some very dysfunctional people, 'cuz i know (about) people who have made similar long-running schemes, and their interaction with people who saw "the real them" was eerily similar to Luna's. They tend to assume that since you know something about them, you are supposed to understand and completely agree with everything about them. I've been associated with a "social rehabilitation program". After that, nothing human will surprise you.

On the betrayal: Everything we know is filtered through the adolescent mind of one Harry Potter, Rebel Without A Pause. As a teenager, the world naturally revolves around him. Any kind of slight towards him is of course a hanging offence. Other fics has him much more tolerant, which i find hilarious. My hair may be graying, but i remember being a teenager. Jbern has a bunch of very credible personalities. Well, the jury's still out on most of the Weasleys, but we'll get there eventually.

Now i have to go sacrifice a fishstick on my Official Jbern Fanboy Altar (tm)

g

 

I'll avoid the entire arguement since it's just a rehash of old opinions in a new thread. That was Bungle, this is Turn Me Loose...

This opener wasn't as strong as I'd hoped for. Bungle ended with just a few too many closed ideas for this opener to work. We killed a demon, avoided DD, buried friends, and stood up as a man...... Now what? The only plot thread that connected the old story to the new one was hiring the mercs to kill Nott. The last chapter of Bungle closed the story down and said "this is the end" really well, but almost nothing about the first chapter of Turn Me Loose stood up and screamed "No, it was only the beginning! Muahahaha!"

Simply put, it failed to reach out and grab me by the balls.

I'm not going to stick a rating on this yet, I'll stick by my three chapter rule. Fair warning though, just because Bungle got four and a half stars does not guarantee a winning vote for this one. Yes it's a continuation of the same story, but it still has to stand or fall on it's own merits.

 

Amen Caitiff.