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Understanding Dumbledore

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Skeletaure, Jan 8, 2015.

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  1. wordhammer

    wordhammer Dark Lord DLP Supporter

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    A few things that I thought could use a better answer (or at least my version of one):

    The Bond of Blood was between Harry and Petunia (or, in a way, between Petunia and Lily about caring for Harry). When the Order threatened Vernon, all they were doing was trying to make him behave better. So long as Petunia still allows Harry to enter, she's still his protector-substitute and the house is still a haven.

    Harry didn't complain to McGonagall about the detentions, but he wasn't the only one punished this way; in the book, Lee Jordan is seen cupping his bloody hand after a detention with her, to which Harry recommends pickled Murtlap as a treatment. I doubt Lee would keep silent unless he already knew that the Professors were powerless against Umbridge (and this is before Dumbledore was ousted).

    As for the ten dark and difficult years Harry survived at the Dursleys, I'd say that Albus knew that Voldemort was suffering, and expected Harry to suffer as well in one form or another. This follows from my believing-in-prophecy interpretation of Dumbledore, so it may not hold as much weight in the argument for some.
     
  2. crimson sun06

    crimson sun06 Order Member

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    Actually Dumbledore had planned for the power of the Elder wand to be broken with his death at Snape's hand. If Voldemort used his original wand against Harry he'd have been screwed either way. So in conclusion you can say it was one of his plans that didn't work, but it really didn't matter either way, because he'd never have been the master of the Elder wand.
     
  3. Stan

    Stan Order Member

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    If the Elder Wand's power would have been broken, it would have become an ordinary wand, thus making it a duel of skills. If Voldemort had used any ordinary wand, he would have beat Harry anyway since Harry used Draco's wand. What was Dumbledore's plan here again?
     
  4. Starfox5

    Starfox5 Seventh Year

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    Have Harry die so Voldemort becomes mortal, and anyone can kill him then. Or that's what one has to assume, given the mess of the latter books.
     
  5. MyrzaelHanzo

    MyrzaelHanzo First Year

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    What did Dumbledore know canonically about Malfoy´s plan in HBP ? Did he stand and look while Malfoy was trying to murder students and professors or was he blindsided by it all ?
     
  6. prtclehysics

    prtclehysics Third Year

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    I think he kept an eye on him. Plus he knew that Harry was basically shadowing him. Dumbledore's pretty hands off with his students. You could argue that its neglect, abuse or whatever or you could go with the explanation that: its magic. These kids are a lot harder to harm than Mary Sue. At what point is sheltering them from harm actually hurting their growth? Katie Bell was a sixth year. Old enough to know better than to pick up a random necklace in the wizarding world.
     
  7. Starfox5

    Starfox5 Seventh Year

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    Up until that point, there had been no sign at all that random junk on the ground was that dangerous.

    Dumbledore risked the life of students and teachers by letting Malfoy plot and attempt murder - not the sign of a great wizards who knows so much he can plot Voldemort's defeat years in advance.
     
  8. Stan

    Stan Order Member

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    Indeed. For all the supposed greatness of Albus Dumbledore, he does a lot of things that are questionable. This is one of the many such examples in canon.
     
  9. prtclehysics

    prtclehysics Third Year

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    Tom Riddles diary wasn't dangerous? No teachers and very few students were at risk. I don't think he really plotted Voldemort's defeat so much as trusted that Harry would perform exactly as he was trained to do.
     
  10. MyrzaelHanzo

    MyrzaelHanzo First Year

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    Trained by who exactly ?
    I did not see much training from AD in canon, if you do not count some evasive discussions at the end of school year and then watching memories that could be shortened to one afternoon.
     
  11. wordhammer

    wordhammer Dark Lord DLP Supporter

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    Just thinking about all these near-misses and Dumbledore's trusting attitude about Draco's assassination attempts, and recognizing that Felix Felicis is a thing, as is the curse on the DADA position...

    I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Hogwarts has a special charm of ancient power and provenance- the Aegis of Hospitality: 'No one invited into the castle to learn can die within it.'

    The sole exception in 50 years was Myrtle, and she was killed by something that might be considered covered by the ultimate Grandfather clause- '...unless a Headmaster (or Founder) wills it'.

    Every other possible death was 'nerfed' by Hospitality, even the participants (willing or not) in the Tri-wizard Tournament. Adult visitors don't have this protection- it only applies to the students, as part of the castle fulfilling its purpose for over a thousand years.

    Basically, I'm writing this now and half expecting something similar to pop up on Pottermore or in the upcoming film(s).
     
  12. prtclehysics

    prtclehysics Third Year

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    Not so much "trained" as in classes but Harry's "saving people thing" was never questioned. It was continually reinforced. Because Dumbledore knew that Harry would have to die to defeat Tom Riddle and it was easier if he walked to his death of his own accord.

    ---------- Post automerged at 05:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:27 PM ----------

    I want to read this.
     
  13. Starfox5

    Starfox5 Seventh Year

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    And how would anyone like Katie Bell know about that diary? It was kept a secret, remember?

    Harry wasn't trained. At all. Remember year 6? The oh so wise wizard wasted his last year of life with home movies to teach Harry stuff about Riddle he could have learned in a single afternoon. That's another sign of Dumbledore being incredibly stupid - or just the worst teacher ever at Hogwarts.
     
  14. prtclehysics

    prtclehysics Third Year

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    It served as an example to the readers that the perfectly ordinary can be dangerous. I would assume that for the students this would be covered as part of the curriculum.
     
  15. Starfox5

    Starfox5 Seventh Year

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    "Harry Potter and the Witch Queen" has that enchantment you mention - plots to kill anyone are foiled automatically. Every headmaster can add a new enchantment to the school. Dumbledore explains in chapter 13 that he added "No corporal punishment", and made it cover even the student's home life.

    ---------- Post automerged at 22:45 ---------- Previous post was at 22:44 ----------

    You'd be wrong then, or it'd be mentioned in the books.
     
  16. MyrzaelHanzo

    MyrzaelHanzo First Year

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    Was there any explanation why Dumbledore didn´t do something as Chief Warlock when Fudge practically summary executed Crouch Junior or to make sure member of old pureblood house had finally a trial ?
     
  17. prtclehysics

    prtclehysics Third Year

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    Eh there's no evidence that being a member on old Pureblood house grants you anything other than an extra bit of gravitas while your name is in favor. Minister> Chief Warlocke. Fudge outranks him.
     
  18. Starfox5

    Starfox5 Seventh Year

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    I took it to mean that summary executions were nothing unusual in the Magical World. The missing trial for Sirius is another matter. As far as I know, no explanation was ever given in canon.
     
  19. crimson sun06

    crimson sun06 Order Member

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    This is again debatable. I personally think that the Elder wand would have stopped functioning altogether, but even if it didn't and remained an ordinary wand Voldemort was still screwed as evidenced by what happened when he used Lucius' wand against Harry.
     
  20. Shinysavage

    Shinysavage Madman With A Box ~ Prestige ~

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    Just to clarify, Katie was placed under the Imperius Curse to take the necklace to Dumbledore. She gets hurt precisely because one of her friends thinks this is really stupid, and tries to stop her,which winds up with her touching the necklace. And she was cursed by Rosmerta, who Dumbledore quite definitely doesn't know is being cursed herself. So while you might use that incident to criticise Dumbledore, criticise him as a person rather than a teacher; clearly, any of his students not being mindraped can assess such a situation perfectly well.
     
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