Just read a small piece of a fanfic that made me want to critique the author on use of too many American pop culture or television references.

I know I am guilty of doing that in my cross-over HP fic with Dresden Files. That is mostly because the way Butcher, the writer of that series, writes his story. So to stay true to story and character I pull in references every now and then.

But in fanfiction in general, especially when the story is being told in third person, I really get annoyed at writers describing something is like the 'beam me up Scotty' effect on Star Trek, for example.

When feeling particularly superior I accuse them of not having imagination or ability to describe what they are visualizing, and when I am feeling particularly PC I have to wonder if my kiwi friend Dark Syaoran or Kraut-spy friend Minion get the reference. Of course this is the question if we limit the use of pop culture references in fanfiction to only American pop-culture.

I have a vague recollection of reading a fic which referenced some tv show only aired in England and I was left asking the question 'Well how the hell am I supposed to know what you're talking about?'

So what I am wondering is, do you folks who do not watch American television and movies, ever get lost in fics that are heavy on references or get annoyed.

Ultimately are you a bad writer if you make a tantalizing connection between a scene in your fic and what was aired on 'The L Word,' which leaves out most of the population who do not get cable.

Or you could just answer the thread title.

edit: damn I wanted to make this a poll too.

 

It depends on how frequently it's used, and whether it was around at the time.

It annoys me when Harry listens to Good Charlotte or Blink 182. It confuses me when there are jokes that only the author and their friends understand, (it's worse when they put an AN saying "You won't get this unless you were there with me and Kate yesterday,) and is amusing when they are used properly (as in your fic).

I've confused myself in the reply, so I'll stop now.

 

It depends on the fandom and the character whose POV we are using. Characters in Harry Potter, for instance, even muggle-borns, aren't going to be very familiar with American pop culture, especially when they spend ten months a year from the ages of 11-17 at a school for magic which is completely isolated from British muggle culture, much less American.

Harry Potter himself, should have even less familiarity with British pop culture than your average muggle-born since I doubt he was allowed to go to the cinema, watch the telly, or buy music albums.

On the other hand, there's fandoms like Buffy, which is famous for pop culture references, especially by certain characters (like Xander). In those cases, American pop culture references are not only appropriate, but encouraged, while foreign pop culture is almost non-existant aside from stereotypes.

My main gripe with pop culture references in fan fiction is when people reference things that did not exist in pop culture during the time period the fandom is set in, but do not change the timeline.

 

I have to say, the minute I see someone using pop references on a fic that isn't from that time period (I.E. Harry Potter, Inuyasha -even though no one actually reads that last stuff any more) I alt F4 away as fast as possible. I don't know about your story, personally, as I still haven't got the chance to read it, but pop culture is one of my strongest peeves.

 

I think it depends ENTIRELY on the series in question and the genre of the story. If it's parody or humor primarily, such things can be amusing. A sly or subtle reference here and there can be a little "gift" to the observant reader. But any time I see "As they say in America", I know I'm about to be disgusted. And I always have been. Keep it consistent, that's what I say.

In dialogue, much can be forgiven, as often some people talk using references as metaphors or analogies to explain things. But using them in descriptive text is just lazy. LAZY I TELL YOU. I consider first-person POV description exempt from this rule, for the most part. As long as it fits the character.

-J

 

I don't really have a solid opinion one way or the other because it always depends on the context and situation. For humor/parody stuff it's almost always fine by me. A crossover with Buffy that lacked pop culture references would just fail since so much of BtVS is pop culture.

When it's obviously the author just plugging their favorite music or tv shows, a lot of the times it ends up crappy and reflects poorly on the author. Not to mention they can become extremely dated, thus making the fic dated (for reference see Potter-Pikachu's Demon Knights fic featuring "Let the Bodies Hit the Floor" and the "Thong Song"). Someone dropping an X-files reference today could be completely missed, but in a fic from 2001, it might've been hilarious at the time.

The thing about 'pop culture' is that you often end up appealing more to those who get it, catch the references, like the band/movie/person... at the cost of annoying or off-putting those who don't. Typically the smaller the group that will "get it", the more they enjoy the little reference that feels like it's just for them. Hence the inside jokes to friends that are pointless to 99% of the world but absolutely hilarious to the author's BFF Jill.

One thing I will say though is this: songs in fanfic suck (sorting songs have slightly different rules but they too suck). They always suck. Because they're not songs. A song must be heard. In a fic, it's words on paper. Even if it's your favorite song and the lyrics just fit the characters perfectly. They still suck.

Because lyrics in writing are basically just poetry. And no one likes poetry. No one.

EDIT: I see Jeram said a lot of the same things. Just not quite as eloquently as me.

 

I think a sliding scale is useful. Check me on this idea.
Bugs Bunny & Looney tunes (and to a lesser degree woody woodpecker, disney classics......Stuff your parents and your kids could get) Certain really big Movies,
Mega star rock and roll classics, Well known/long tv shows. Now things start getting fuzzy, for example both "London Calling" and "Tainted Love" were huge hits when released, and can be heard on the radio in My Market every day( On the best of the 60's70's80's90's stations) But I can see myself missing the reference or going WHAT if I was reading a story fast.

On a side note Who is in the Know? Harry and Hermione, with Ron not getting is something I have seen before, ok that works, But after that we have a bunch of pure bloods.

Draco waved and said "energize" and his port key whisked him to safety.
I don't think So....

To Sum Up, A pop culture reference should A) add to the story/or character
B) be understandable to a large section of your readership

Or be funny: the sorting hat singing "dude looks like a lady"

 

I have to agree with several of you who brought up Buffy as an example where if you don't have pop culture references it's not Buffy. So I understand when we are working within the 'verse of a writer who wrote a story using such references it would be silly not to use them because you would fail at the style or mood of that 'verse.

What I think is absolutely unforgivable as Jeram and later Nonjon more 'eloquently' stated that a writer, using a third person, narrator perspective uses pop culture references to describe or define something.

For example, "Hermione and Ron had a Ross and Rachel-like relationship."

This particular reference might not even make sense to many avid TV/Movie watchers because it is from Friends, a show with massive cult following of girls! The show seriously has cooties. I recommend guys stay away.

In the end, if you aren't writing in a 'verse that lends itself to that kind of writing like Buffy, it just feels out of place to me when characters within the story mention something like Good Charlote, White Stripes, Evanescense, Blink 182 or god forbid a litany of emo bands. Malaga is right about that, I despise seeing something like that, and want to pull X out, like apparently Kolskit at any reference to popculture.

amen, brother.

 

What about the other side of pop culture, when Harry is walking down the halls playing his air guitar as he listens to some fangirl band or having a rap battle with his friends? I don't care if they pull out a tiny, random little quip that might be related to pop-culture, but it he starts going 'When a girl walks in with an itty bitty waist and a round thing in your face you get sprung' then my finger flys to that big red x in the sky so fast that I forget I'm using the IE tab system and I turn off all my other crap too.

 

These are my two complaints concerning pop-culture references given by characters. It’s slightly different when the story is AU, Harry has lived on the street for years, joins Hogwarts late in life, etc. But I think it is ridiculous the moment it doesn’t match the area (usually Britain), the time frame (early 1990th), or the character. It’s unbearable if it is overdone – and if it’s done by the average fangirl, then it usually is overdone.

I really don’t like it if an author uses pop-culture metaphors to describe scenes or settings for the reader. It’s not only unimaginative but also destroys the atmosphere – if the author was able to create any atmosphere at all. To characterise something with Star -Trek / -Wars / -gate references is inappropriate if you want to recreate a medieval setting.

That line was one reason for me to post the specific story in the “awesomely bad fanfic” thread, partly because I didn’t catch the reference.

Quite often I don’t catch it because it is too special. There are just too many animes, pop-songs, etc, to know them all, especially when they aren’t aired here. Sometimes I looked it up, i.e. Dr. Pepper, which is one of the annoying elements of Bellerophon’s ‘Brave New World’, but mostly I ignore it and if there are too many things like that I quit reading.

That’s not a pop-culture reference, that’s just a Gary Stu attending Hogwarts.

Ah, you obviously never read Martial ...

Spoiler

I.90

quod numquam maribus iunctam te, Bassa, uidebam
quodque tibi moechum fabula nulla dabat,
omne sed officium circa te semper obibat
turba tui sexus, non adeunte uiro,
esse uidebaris, fateor, Lucretia nobis:
at tu, pro facinus, Bassa, fututor eras.
inter se geminos audes committere cunnos
mentiturque uirum prodigiosa Venus.
commenta es dignum Thebano aenigmate monstrum,
hic ubi uir non est, ut sit adulterium.

Because I never used to see you close to males, Bassa,
and because no rumour gave you an adulterer,
but a crowd of your sex always used to surround you
discharging every duty, with no man approaching,
I confess that I used to think you were a Lucretia.
But you, Bassa - for shame! - were a fornicator.
You dare to join together two cunts
and your prodigious "Venus" lies about your manhood.
You have come up with a portent worthy of the Theban riddle:
that here, where there is no man, there is adultery.


II.50

quod fellas et aquam potas, nil, Lesbia, peccas:
qua tibi parte opus est, Lesbia, sumis aquam.

You suck cocks and drink water, and you're doing nothing wrong, Lesbia:
in just that part where you need it, Lesbia, you're doing the washing-up.


II.52

nouit loturos Dasius numerare: poposcit
mammosam Spatalen pro tribus; illa dedit.

Dasius knows how to count the bathers: he asked
Spatale with the big breasts to pay the entry-fee for three. She gave it.


II.62

quod pectus, quod crura tibi, quod bracchia uellis,
quod cincta est breuibus mentula tonsa pilis,
hoc praestas, Labiene, tuae - quis nescit? - amicae.
cui praestas, culum quod, Labiene, pilas?


You pluck your chest, your legs, your arms,
your shorn prick is ringed with short hairs:
this, Labienus, you do - who doesn't know it? - for your girlfriend.
For whom, Labienus, do you depilate your arse?

 

Still, that would be like Buffy without the pop culture references or Dresden without the sarcasm. Its part of the story because its a big part of the original culture, i.e. Japanese, who are a very polite society.

Nevertheless I do get annoyed when, in the middle of a perfectly fine and normal fic, the author pulls out 'and Harry put in his favourite My Chemical Romance cd and listened to it as he walked', or even abbreviates it to just 'My Chem' or 'MCR'. Its a minor annoyance compared to some things but it has pissed me off in the past.

Aekiel

 

To make a good story, you need relevant details.

Mentioning that Harry popped in a 'My Chemical Romance' cd, is not a relevant detail (unless for some reason, the government is assassinating people who listen to music by MCR in that particular story) and shows how the author is attempting to promote his favorite music, which is really tasteless and indulgent.

Honorifics and other-language references in a story are fine (I'd encourage them) as long as they're relevant to making the story seem more real and not there because the author thinks they sound cool or because they want to show off their knowledge of Japanese.

 

If Harry ever calls Hermione by the name Mione-chan -and I've seen it happen in a few stories where he's suddenly turned into an inu-youkai and started screaming Iron Reaver Soul Stealer as he runs around the school- I just can't let it slide and go with it.

As a rule of thumb, any pop culture reference made that isn't in or before the time period means that the author is a senseless twat and that red 'x' is clicked.

 

I cannot tolerate any Japanese in fics. Harry has a new mentor? Good for him! Just don't fricking have him call the mentor sensei! It's not a reaction to writing skill, but one to when an author does it just because they can. It's generally the goal to avoid cliches. This particular one is a freebie, and they just shrug it off.

I don't know how, but all that disappeared when I read LT2000's fic. Then came rushing back when I finished it and started reading other fics.

 

I agree Andro. Why is it that every martial artist/swordsman mentor for Harry has to be Japanese? Hey, here's an idea - how about using a British or at least European martial tradition? Why not Harry becomes the squire/apprentice of a modern day knight and learns to fight with a longsword? Must he always use a katana? If Harry has to use a sword make him use an English sword!

 

That would be fucking awesome. Imagine it, you're a low ranked Death Eater out on your first mission. All is going well, you've raped one random muggle and killed countless others and are quite happy with the results. But wait! What the hell is that?!? Oh fuck! Its a 6'7" Harry Potter with a kick ass beard and a claymore that's as big as you are charging at you from a darkened alleyway! You try to run but your legs are frozen as the bearded menace lets out a harrowing war cry and raises the gigantic sword above his head, ready to cleave you in twain for your sins! You take one last look at the monstrosity before you and promptly expel the contents of your bladder and bowels into your robes before the claymore strikes, carving your skull into two distinctly separate, and very bloody, pieces.

As I said, fucking awesome. Who wants some pansy assed katana when you can have a massive sword that has enough weight behind it to carve halfway through an oak tree.

Aekiel

 

Hate to continue the thread hijacking, but as long as there's no AmericanGunslinger!Harry, we're good, in my opinion.

Though FlintlockPistolDuellist!Harry would be an amusing way to point out how fucking absurd such fics are.

 

Personally I'd rather see Harry wield a Dane Axe than a sword of any sword. A Dane Axe ain't a small thing, metre long handle, an axe head that weighs more than a chainmail shirt, razor sharp edge. That'd be a fun thing to see.