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Week 2: Philosopher's Stone, Ch. 10 - 17

Discussion in 'Bookclub' started by Taure, Nov 6, 2016.

  1. Atram Noctem

    Atram Noctem High Inquisitor

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    Those Filch/Snape and Fluffy/Snape bits take me back to a better time when Snape wasn't Super!Snape but just some shady loser.

    The snowballs on Quirrell's turban are amusing, but I really crack up at the part where the three keep smiling at Quirrell to cheer him up. I imagine it creeped him out.
     
  2. Distaly

    Distaly Third Year

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    I really, really like the whole mirror of erised chapter. The cloak, a gift from an unknown source which is not only an invaluable piece of magical equipment but even more important a link to Harrys father. And than he discovers the mirror under his cloak. This mirror which in which he sees what so far he only knew from dreams and the words of other people.
    Additionally I love the very idea of the mirror, an object that enthralls you with an image of the thing you want the most, even when you
    consciously dosen't know what it even is, you desire the most. Harrys discovery, his obession, of the mirror, his (seemingly) blindness to all the other things around him. So beautiful pulled of. I wonder what Hermine might see in it. Or what would Voldemorte see, true immortaly or maybe himself teaching at Hogwarts? Many intresting things around the mirror and something that is rarely pulled of good in fanfiction, it is more than showing us what Harry wants the most, it's all about how you build it up before.
    (Btw for anyone intrested; german version of the mirror: „NERHEGEB Z REH NIE DREBAZ TILT NANIEDTH CIN” = „NICHT DEIN ANTLITZ ABER DEIN HERZ BEGEHREN”)All in all this is one of my favourite chapters, not only of Harry Potter but also of books in general, although HP holds quite a few of that, I truely love this one.

    I really wonder which books the three were reading if they didn't find Flamel. I mean he seems kinda famous. On the other hand the discovery is pretty neat pulled of.

    Seeing a dragon hatching must be a one in a milion experince. Also, why cant Ron refuse a visit from Draco? And he simply let him take the book? A bit unbeliveable for me.

    When you drink the blood of an unicorn, you have a merely a half, cursed life... soo where is a fic about this?

    Those last two chapters trule show the diffrent in writing Rowling had in comparsion to later books. Those obstacles feel like an RPG quest to obtain your loot and not like something you would really guard something important. I mean I don't agree with the point of many that the defences are pointless (we are merely „lucky” the trio has the right skills to pull it of) but still, they must be dozens of simpler way to do it, even the true goal was to catch Voldemorte. Also Dumbledore flies to the ministery another sign that no other way to travel with magic has yet been invented by Rowling (and another stupid point for indy!Harry crap to show Dumbledore wanted to bring Harry in danger, although there are dozens of other possibilitys).

    After all PS is an intresting read. Something one can truely enjoy in a hole diffrent level than the later books (espically the ones after GoF). You see the two „arcs” of HP as a whole between PS-GoF and GoF-DH. Yet PS manages to introduce this world and those character in such a beautiful and really magical way that I remember why I and milions of other people out there got sucked into this world.
     
  3. Rhaegar I

    Rhaegar I Unspeakable

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    Random question: how well known was Flamel IRL before PS came out? If you told an adult the name, would they have likely at least heard of it, or was he more obscure than that?
     
  4. Mr. Merriman

    Mr. Merriman Seventh Year

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    He's probably about a bit more famous than the Comte de St. Germain, but less famous than Aleister Crowley, as far as the occult goes, if that means anything to you.
     
  5. Shinysavage

    Shinysavage Madman With A Box Prestige

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    So when Neville gets caught out of bed trying to warn Harry and Hermione about Draco, do we think they ever tell him the truth, or does he spend the rest of his life thinking that he got caught up in a stupid prank?

    On a related note, I'd forgotten that points scored in Quidditch seem to be counted towards the house-point total. Seems a bit daft to me.

    How much of the next seven years do we think this refers to? Just the immediate, philosophers stone related business, or the whole thing up to 'Deathly Hallows'?

    I'd have a lot more time for fanon pack/alpha bullshit if they used this as the basis.

    I've seen people use the second quote as an example of Snape being an asshole...but the first quote is McGonagall. What's so bad about kids being inside, even if it is a nice sunny day?

    Neville's first instinct is to try and beat them up. Is this a) he's a poor wizard and knows it, b) another example of wizards not carrying their wands around as a matter of course, c) early evidence of the fact that Neville is a BAMF?

    And Hermione says that he has the emotional range of a teaspoon. Honestly. He's a sensitive, emotionally aware guy!
     
  6. Jeram

    Jeram Elder of Zion DLP Supporter

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    Got further, have a few more thoughts:

    Perhaps they did, it's still not clear what they saw. And I wonder what those "previous" wrong reads were.

    This sort of "backwards" phrasing is very interesting to me, as I don't recall JKR using that construction elsewhere. But it's also interesting how stressed out Harry is here, more than I recalled.

    This whole speech is pretty great, sort of like the ur-Harry hero creation.

    I also really liked how Harry told Peeves to leave by pretending to be the Bloody Baron. But why does Peeves listen anyway? The Baron never really does anything than be a plot point later.
     
  7. torrent56

    torrent56 Second Year

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    Lol, true. Now I am more convinced than ever by my time in the fandom that those stories were written by fanon Hermione shippers who felt the need to bash him to promote their own Hermione ship. It’s so prevalent to the point that canon is forgotten. Most of the authors probably have no idea what canon!Ron is like, or what canon!Harry and canon!Hermione are like for that matter.
    People also forgot canon Ron was happy to give up his position as the Keeper in OotP in the interest of the team even though he loved Quidditch.
    Word! There were quite a few times when Ron advised Harry against doing something reckless and dangerous all by himself without Hermione present, like when Harry wanted to pick up the diary from Mourning Myrtle’s bathroom in CoS and these occasions were never acknowledged.
    Again, if Hermione did not marry Ron in the end and if his only role in the book is being the sidekick who brings jokes and emotional support to the team, there is no way he would be hated as much as he is by some shippers out there.
    I always assumed when the books say a character (e.g. one of the Trio) is looking at his/her watch, if it’s not specified it means their wristwatch.
    The translations that I read also generally translate the word ‘watch when not specified into ‘wristwatch’.
    True, she definitely has a ruthless and rebellious side to her behind the bookworm that is brought out really quickly with some guidance although to be fair she probably felt she wouldn’t have time to inform an authority figure without drawing suspicion to herself.
    Yes, Rowling changed POV within a chapter only twice throughout the 7 books, in PS chapter 11 and 13 but nowhere else. I wished she could use this technique again in future books as some of the scenes where Harry wasn’t involved would have been a lot more effective to me when it’s shown to me in real-time.
    Yes, I think she got herself into more trouble than she could have otherwise whilst still achieving her goal of getting the boys out of trouble. I agree with your interpretation.
    True, on average Ron was much more aware of what Harry was feeling at any particular point in time than Hermione which could explain why Harry snapped at him less of than Hermione.
    I think the reason Hermione said “he had an emotional range of teaspoon” is because she was just frustrated with him at that time, especially given his reaction to hearing the news of Harry and Cho kissing. She wanted him to make a move on her (really traditional I might add) just like Harry was trying to do with Cho but Ron was showing no sign of it.
    Like you said, they got very similar marks. The only subject that Harry did better than Ron in OWL is DADA which he had a lot of real world practice so I am puzzled by where does this idea of Ron being an idiot comes from; maybe because it’s people thinking he always tell dumb jokes or people just making up excuses to bash him (and fellow haters actually believed it).
     
  8. Majube

    Majube Seventh Year

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    This is fanon that pisses me off, everybody has a mean streak in no way is that 'ruthless' if someone spread rumors in a newspaper about me I'd deck them if I could, also 'My friends are doing it too' is a factor when you're 12/13 and blurting out the first thing that comes to your mind is possible.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2016
  9. torrent56

    torrent56 Second Year

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    Ruthless might be an inaccurate word to use here, maybe mean streak is a better phrase, but she would rather take things into her own hands when feeling slighted or that she was right even though she had time to think about her actions. For example, she could have reported Rita Skeeter to Dumbledore or the Ministry instead of kidnapping her in a jar and later blackmailing her. Another example would be jinxing the DA parchment which does not really prevent people from telling the secret otherwise Marietta wouldn’t have been able to tell Umbridge about it or she would have known as soon as someone were ratting them out. It does not really cast her in a negative light in my view.
    Slapping Malfoy in PoA does not count in my view because she was under a lot of stress and she just reacted without thinking like you said. Also she was 14 when that happened if that was what you were talking about, not 12/13.
     
  10. Majube

    Majube Seventh Year

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    The 12/13 thing was about how you were referring to troll. Sorry to get on your case there but it is the point of the reread to clear up earlier preconceptions especially in the fandom where shippers actively restate things to fit their views not that that's wrong considering fanfiction is vastly different overall in the feel and tone from the books.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2016
  11. torrent56

    torrent56 Second Year

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    ?? Troll? I’m not sure where I’ve ever referred to the troll incident before. What are you trying to say exactly? If you’re talking about the incident where Hermione set Snape on fire, I think Hermione’s action is justified because she really does’t have time to alert an authority figure without giving Snape more time to haul Harry off his broom (or so she thinks anyway). My view is that Hermione, who is normally a kind and gentle girl, could sometimes do things that are somewhat controversial if she thinks she is doing the right. I actually like that her character has shades of ambiguity in it.
    Actually the “filthy Weasleys” are the characters who are bashed in the shipping wars no question asked, even on this site.
    OK are you talking about CoS here as I’m a bit confused given this is in the PS re-read thread? If so, I think yes the theme of a great big snake going around the school killing Muggle-borns is much more scary than anything in the first book.
    Actually no, in PS/SS even the Ravenclaws and Hufflepuffs turned against him when he lost those house points with Hermione and Neville in chapter 15 and it was stated as such in the text; the house point deduction and his house’s attitude towards are grossly unfair especially as it should be Hagrid suffering the punishment.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2016
  12. Majube

    Majube Seventh Year

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    Weren't you referring to troll incident here? And yeah meant that for CoS thread.
     
  13. torrent56

    torrent56 Second Year

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    Yes what I meant was that Hermione didn't need to lie to the teachers about why she was in the bathroom in the first place. She could just say that she was feeling homesick or sad or lonely and then she wouldn't lose the house points and suffer McGonagall's disappointment whilst still getting the boys out of trouble. What was your point about my interpretation? I was just agreeing with Shinysavage here.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2016
  14. Majube

    Majube Seventh Year

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    This
    /10char
     
  15. torrent56

    torrent56 Second Year

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    Yes and it would explain why she reacted that way after the troll incident so...?
     
  16. basium1

    basium1 Second Year DLP Supporter

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    Why did no one bring up that incident in the forest where Firenze got in trouble for getting between Harry and Voldemort since it was their destiny to clash in the forest?

    My kindle is acting up so I can't give you a direct quote, so...