I have never written anything that would be considered substantial before.
The longest piece of writing I've ever written was 8000w.

I have attempted longer pieces but I find it always falls apart. I do not know how to plan a piece of writing. I can write shorts, I'm fairly good at shorts but anything long flops like Jigokuno.

So, I'm calling S.O.S.

How do you plan longer pieces of fiction writing?

 

I have not written any original fiction, so I can't comment on that. As far as fanfic is concerned, my very first story ASHH was extremely detailed in my head before I began writing. I knew where the story would begin, where and how it would end and how I will take it there. I can go as far as to say that I know exactly how many chapters are going to be there in fic and what will be the content of them. I think it is a pretty good idea to plan out your stories, at least the basic plot, that way you know where you are going with it.

On to how to plan, I'm sure different people have different techniques. I don't make notes of anything. I think about the over arching plot that will drive the story and how the other characters are going to fit into it. It is a good idea to know exactly why you are writing something. What is that you are trying to convey? The very basis of your plot. Once you know that, it shouldn't be all that hard to form your story around it.

Hope that helps.

 

Generally I start with an idea. Write a plot. Start at the beginning, write the end, find the middle. Then I'll go through it again, connect all the threads together, make it more coherent, weed out any errant or irrelevant plot threads and then start writing.

By the time I've written the second chapter, my entire plan goes out the window.

Welcome to my world of madness.

 

You get a bro or bro-ette and hash shit out with them until you've got a skeleton. Works for me. If you don't have anyone to fill that role for you, get thee to IRC. #thestudy is rather underused these days, but you've still got a decent chance of finding someone willing to help out.

 

This is one way.

I've always gone with the: don't plan technique. Well, that's not true. Usually I see an ending, that may not turn out to be the end, and I work a story on how to get there. The words may catch up with the idea and its not the end, or the end no longer fits the preceding story, but the point is I have something on paper.

That said, fanfic is a lot easier to write than original writing (wasn't there a recent thread about this?). A helluva lot easier. With fanfic, there is very little pressure to perform. Fanfic is a cheap, dirty whore, you see, and is all about deriving pleasure for yourself at the expense of her dignity (this may be more apt for slash writers), whereas original work is precious, something you would take home to your parents. Sure now and again you hope she gets dirty and lets you experiment in the kitchen on a Sunday afternoon, but then doubt may set in, and trust may be dissolved if you don't treat her right. In the end, what you're left with are some good scenes but not a complete story.

Yeah.

The thing is, you can question technique and tips/tricks for writing novels back and forth all day, but wouldn't that time be better spent actually writing?

 

This. I personally don't plan out all that much ahead of time, and can at times certainly write my way into corners at times, but I know that the plot I imagine in my head beforehand is never as good as the story that happens while I'm writing. The very act of sitting down and putting something on the page is the important part, and can spur on something really fantastic.

Obviously then you've got to go back and edit, really pare down, especially if you write in a way that is relatively stream of consciousness esqe like I do. But as Joe says, just keep working, keep writing. The only way to write something longer is to just sit down and do it. Don't fret too much, don't make it into this huge deal, just fucking do it.

That's just my two cents, and while I've only been working on fanfics for a few months, I've been writing plays for years (it was my major) and this strategy has generally worked quite well for me.

 

So true. No plot ever survives the second chapter...

 

I've answered several of these open-ended questions that you've posed, SacrosanctSofa, and, like Joe, I'm beginning to wonder how serious you are about writing. To paraphrase the physicist Richard Feynmann, "Shut up and calculate [write]."

Everyone's creative process is different; you should find what works for you and go with it, all the while being realistic about things. Writing is hard. Writing professional quality original fiction is about five times harder than writing comparable quality fanfiction. There is no magic formula to make the novel-monkeys fly out of your butt. It takes half a year to grind out a first draft if you are efficient; a year is more typical. You need to do much more planning than you would for a short story, but your plans shouldn't be so confining as to eliminate creative license and joy.

The process I'm using for my present novel has grown out of my experience writing novels, novellas, and novelettes and it works for me. It's unlikely to work for you without some tweaking to match your temperament and needs:

My present WIP is an hourglass speculative fiction novel which tracks two characters who start out apart, interact, then go apart again. Such novels require that the story for each be sufficiently compelling as to be "standalone," but also that the integration be more than just two stories told simultaneously. You can't successfully write such a novel without careful planning.

One of the major arcs is a classical murder mystery plot, with twists and turns and maguffins and the like. The other has elements of mystery, but is more of a character exploration/self discovery thing with a backdrop of big explosions and cynical one-liners. Each plot line has major scenes planned that must take place; these scenes define the overall structure of the plot. Think of them as the long poles in the tent. They also have several minor scenes acting as "glue" connecting them that are more fluid and that I can discard or completely mess around with at will depending on what seems right when I get there. As long as I hit the major milestones on time (from a tension/pacing standpoint) and inconsistencies are avoided, it really doesn't matter.

That's plot. Characterization is harder in many ways. Before I write, I open a file on each major character and coredump mannerisms, appearance, backstory, history, likes, dislikes, etc. Epic lines the character absolutely must say sometime go in there, as does a general sense of where the character is going with his or her life, etc. I don't employ much structure for this--it's mainly just to make sure that I gather in one place the melange of episodes, impressions, and characteristics that help define the character.

Once both are in place and I've spent some weeks "living" with the characters in my head, I set about writing. I format my word processor in standard manuscript format and I don't quit until I have at least 3 pages, Courier, double spaced, done that day. Yeah, I know authors who do double or triple that, but I find I can always do 3, no matter how bad the day for writing. I always reread/lightly edit the prior day's entry and use it to get the juices flowing for the next.

If you have trouble sticking to it, deliberately end your day's work mid-sentence. The "undoneness" will gnaw at your soul and ensure you pick up from where you left off the next day.

Crap like theme and nuances of style and the like are to be saved for revision. Don't worry about it until you have a draft--it's hard enough telling a good story, much less mucking things up by trying to have it mean something in the first pass.

 

Start thinking about plot. Stare at paper for a few minutes. End up masturbating.

 

-_-

This is why we're not seeing more of Lords of Magic?

 

It seems like I've got a very different way of writing than a lot of people here, at least in terms of planning. Maybe it's because I'm writing a different style of fic, where plot threads have to be woven together correctly, but whatever...

In any case, I'll use two current examples that I'm working on. The first is Renegade Cause, the other I'll mention later.

First thing about RC (abbreviation from hereon) is that before I even began, I knew exactly where I wanted to take this story, and most of that was built on the progression of events built at the solitary divergence point from canon. I asked myself how I could take Harry from where he was at that particular point canonically and bring him to where I wanted his character. That allows me to fill in the plot, hand-in-hand with the characterization. The other characters who react or are responsible for this plot are characterized as such with the reference frame of canon to hold.

So I have a beginning, a middle, and an end, based upon the central character. This is the basic framework of my plot, and from there, I consider the supporting characters, and how they would act/react in each case. Then I map out their character progressions.

This is then linked to a plot diagram, where I methodically ensure my plotting works and the holes are ironed out. This is done for EACH plot in my work, with emphasis placed on both main plots and side plots. Both are linked to a timeline, where character progression details, setting changes, and plot manipulations are conducted with respect to in-story time. Ultimately, everything should be tied back to the basic question: if you are moving this character from one paradigm to another, what central theme is encapsulated? Throughout your story, that central theme becomes important, because that idea becomes emphasized, criticized, and ultimately displayed to the reader. This is where I tend to disagree with Pers, because ultimately while I'm telling character/plot-driven story, a central theme allows for a greater organization of ideas in reference to the rest of the story.

This can all get very hectic, particularly considering the multi-plotline Xanatos Roulette that RC is, as building adequate rationales and motivations for characters becomes a onerous task, particularly character roles with respect to the theme, and that's likely the reason why I have about forty different spreadsheets and heaps of paper scattered around my computer whenever I write this story, so I can keep track of those little details that become important.

But keep in mind I'm writing RC the same way I would write an original work, and I mapped the fuck out of all my original ideas so they tied together with the thematic elements I was trying to create. Fanfic doesn't tend to be written this way, with this much planning, and to some extent, I can understand that. But as I'm using my fanfic as practice for when I actually start writing for publishing, I wanted to develop a good process now so that when I return to my original works, I have practice in this sort of charting and plotting.

Oneshots, on the other hand, are massively different. They're centered around the punchline, the encapsulated moment, or a single thesis given presented in concise, succinct detail. Silence Game, my Harry/Su Li erotica oneshot, was based on the character interaction of individuals, an statement regarding the abuse of power and the price paid of a singular obsession. It's not intended as graphic smut, but rather a very intimate and stark portrayal of a power struggle between two individuals. In my opinion, it accomplishes its purpose, but I've got other ideas on how this might be expanded to incorporate others.

And that's why I'm working on Temptation Game, the sequel to Silence Game, currently in the editing stage, hopefully done by the end of the month.

 

I think we're in basic agreement. I just was sloppy with my words and didn't make my intent clear.

More accurate would have been for me to say, "Crap like worrying over how well one conveys theme and..." I agree that one should have a basic sense of what the story is about, but I think it's premature in the first draft to worry much about whether said theme is being delivered as forcefully as it should.

 

I do, Sesc.

I can't just type my story before I know exactly how I'm going to go about it. Even just knowing the basic plot is not enough for me. I need to hash out the beginning, the end, the middle and how I'll connect all those together.

Not to say there aren't any changes while I'm typing, but they are nothing drastic. Nothing that throws the plot out of the window.

 

Ah, that's where we differ. I used to try mapping things out chapter by chapter, but when that happens, I lose my creative freedom with the flow. If anything, I plot out events, and then utilize natural breaking points as chapters, typically with a nice cliffhanger to precipice the next update. It's a bit of a different method, but it tends to work, at least when it comes to chapter construction.

Agreed on this. The key thing I've found with this is that while the theme should be kept in mind, it should never be overtly stated. It's subtle, held in the background as an ideal that works with one's writing, and it should NEVER eclipse basic tenets of writing (flow, pacing, and tone), plot or characterization. Ayn Rand, Terry Goodkind, and LessWrong have yet to learn this lesson.

 

I have pages and pages and pages of notes for stories sitting on a designated "Documents" hard drive. Nearly 90% of these notes are logs of entire conversations that could last 45 seconds or (as in the case for Lily White) lasted for nearly six hours.

And how much of that has been written? Precisely.

Which is to say: If you worry too much about having massively detailed plots and characters spanning ages, you run the risk of a very nasty bug: Burnout. You know absolutely everything that's going to happen, who is going to say what, when. You know when the big plot twist is gonna kick in. You know if, and usually a when, one of your main characters is going to die. When Big Bad is going to kick over the big bucket at the hands of a more powerful minion to a Bigger Bad who the original Big Bad was working against, in line with Protag's morals and visions for the future.

I don't know how many people are like me in this respect, but love a story or hate it, I find it tedious and a chore to go back and read it. There isn't any new twist, no new action. Its all boring rehashing.

tl;dr: Don't worry, be writing.

Of course, that doesn't mean just wing it entirely. A skeleton, like Tehan mentioned, is always a good idea. A few points here and there and how you need to connect the dots to add up and make sense.

Also; Never, ever edit while writing. Write it and if you misspell a word or screw grammar, just keep going. It fucks your flow. You can fix and edit and replace and rework when you're done.

 

This! This! This!

I tried writing off the top of my head a couple of times, and I ended up sacrificing quality very quickly.

For Harry Potter and the Boy Who Lived, I spent almost a year outlining the fic in detail. Like Secs, I have each chapter broken into scenes, which I describe in detail, along with any major plot points I need to focus on. Doing this has allowed me to keep the big picture in place while still focusing on the little things.

Additionally, since I knew I was going to be introducing some new people, I created a character list with the defining characteristics for all my OCs to make sure I gave them some actual substance when I was writing them. Also, I wrote a full curriculum for Durmstrang to help me keep Harry advancing at a reasonable level and not turn him into a super!wizard.

I definitely concede your point about burnout being a very real possibility, but, for me, knowing what happens next can be a huge plus. It helps me wade through the pages and pages of useless filler. I hate it when I've written a thousand words and still fell like nothing has happened in the story. I'll get annoyed and go back to my outline, where I'll realize there is a very important reason for why I need the filler, or I notice I'm really close to a scene I've been looking forward to writing. That helps inspire me to get passed the boring shit.

 

I can sit down and write with ease, with or without a story. I can even sit back and edit as I go. I sometimes have to go back and reread just to recall where the scene is going.

I get plotbunnies all the time, the story sitting in WBA was one of them. They usually strike, fanfic or original, and I like the idea, but realize it goes nowhere. So I'll think about it for a few days, tinkering with it, feeling it out. Expanding it. If I hit a snag, what I want something to happen, but can logically make it work, I'll chill it for a few days. Then my mind will wander back to it and boom, the wall is gone.

Once I have a skeleton I'll work on specifics. Scenes I want to use, things I want to happen or say. I'll even act the scenes out in my head while working; some of the tasks I do I can do on autopilot. Sometimes when I'm shitting I'll play some of the roles out.

Once I'm happy I'll go and write down a rough outline. I leave some blank spaces for where I won't get bored. Then I sit down and type it out. Sometimes I have a scene already written out, but not quite.

Example would be in my story Rookwood and Harry are talking. Originally, I wanted Rookwood to just be mad, but I had a better idea of having him become a Minion. It changed whole parts of the character and plot, but it worked better.

So I think both structure and flexibility are important. Have an idea where you're going, but don't be afraid to adjust if something better comes up.

I have to wonder, though, is it you're ideas that are flagging or is it your interest in writing? Are you getting bored of it? Tell us your thoughts on why you think you can't plan ahead.

 

My fanfiction came about from a plot bunny that I knew would occur at the end of third year. Once I had that idea, I sat down and sketched out the plot for the series, and after that, key scenes for years 1-5. Once I'd finished the first two books, I knew how the last two years were going to go, roughly, and I duly sketched the plans out.

I stuck fairly closely to the plan for the first book, but had new ideas as I was writing which I incorporated. This happens all the time, so once I've finished a book I go over the outlines for the rest of the series and rejig them in light of what I've thought up since then. And so is a masterpiece born...

I haven't done much original fiction yet (I haven't actually written anything in months, fanfiction or original), but at the moment I'm concentrating more on planning out the world and characters than plot. I know the beginning and end of the story (for the moment) and once I'm satisfied with at least a basic world to play in, I'll work on the middle.

Other than that, my key suggestion is talk to someone about it: I'm always bouncing ideas off a friend, and it's a massive help in figuring out where the story should go.

TL;DR: pretty much a mix of Tehan and Joe's comments.

 

Circular Reasoning came about from an all-nighter in which I was supposed to be studying for an exam, but ended up feverishly plotting for another two days straight. Incidentally enough, I passed the exam. I threw most of CR's plot out the next day.

I spent another two weeks putting together the prologue only to find out that I had no clue how to write anything outside of an essay. And over the last 5+ years I've learned that I'm not a very good writer, but that's alright, because somewhere along the way I turned out to be a kick-ass storyteller.

I have no good tips to offer you as there is no method to my madness, nor rhythm or order. My desk is covered with sketches of scenes and characters, papers full of half-finished conversations, sticky-notes on plot-points stuck to every bit of free surface - just whatever pops into my head at the moment. Most of my stuff, original and fanfiction, comes about in bits and pieces. I'll write one scene, then skip ahead to write another, and if I'm really feeling creative, I'll go back to a previous scene I've already written, scrap most of it and write and rewrite until I like it. I try not to post stuff I don't like.

My best advice is to carefully consider what you want to write. Beginnings and endings are important, but if you don't like the meat of the story, writing it will end up being a chore and that's the quickest way towards burnout.