So, this question may have been asked before, but if so, I don't remember any replies, and I was wondering about DLP's opinion on what would have happened if, in the scene where harry had fought Draco in the bathroom, Harry's use of sectumsempra had actually hit Draco in the neck and killed him before Snape could arrive?

Given that this is happening prior to Draco succeeding in fixing the vanishing cabinet, and also nullifying Snape's unbreakable vow (tho given that said vow is nullified by failure- im not sure what the outcome of that is) there are a lot of questions that are left to be answered...

Would they arrest Harry for murder, would they hush it up and call it an accident, would harry flee to Grummuald Place? this could potentially ruin any invasion of Hogwarts that Voldimort had planned, as well as screwing up Harry and Dumbledore's horcrux hunt. Additionally, given the curse on Dumbledore, just how long will the man live, and also, will Snape end up killing him regardless? What kind of butterflies on the war will this have?

One also has to wonder how this will affect Harry psychologically, not to mention his friends and professors- it's one thing for Harry to kill Quirrelmort, it's another to kill a classmate, even one who is a DE.

I'm also also curious if there are any (decently written) fics based on this premise?

 

Narcissa wouldnt help Harry if she knew he'd killed Draco. A ruthless Dumbledore would put it out there that Draco had attacked Harry with an Unforgivable, only to be heroically rescued by Professor Shape. Somehow, I doubt canon Dumbledore would do that.

 

That is one question I really am having a difficult time deciding on- how would canon Dumbledore respond to this situation? At this time, he's dealing with the fact that Harry is still a student of his, that another student has been brutally murdered, and in any other circumstance, it would be pretty clear cut, even if he happened to like Harry.

OTOH, this is not a normal circumstance- the Ministry is corrupt as hell, and Harry would most likely be murdered at some point or at least "disappear" perhaps in prison, perhaps in transit, whatever. Additionally, Harry is crucial to the war because of the prophecy, the issue of Horcrux, and the fact that he (Dumbledore) is dying. There is also the additional issue that Harry had also not yet gotten the memory of how many Horcrux from Slughorn.

Finally, there are the issues of a) Harry's potential fall into the dark- this could easily be a tipping point, or it could be a one-off event and b) The fact that Draco did use an unforgivable, and was a marked DE means that even if all of this is settled as a clear case of self defense, it would still change things dramatically nonetheless.

I would wonder that, even if Harry is proven not guilty by self defense, he'd still likely be expelled or perhaps choose not to return because of the risk he poses to other students? (whatever reason one can think of- be it the Ministry, Dumledore or Harry himself choosing)

I feel that this particular junction in the story hasn't been used enough in fanfiction.

And getting back to your quote Redhawk, yes, this also has great potential for going more off the rails in terms of AU of some sort with how people (Dumbledore, the Ministry, his friends) respond...

 

Well Draco fired first and as Sectumsepra is an invention of Snape's who knows if the Ministry could really classify it as "dark magic."

Besides, the political situation at the time would never allow for the Boy who Lived to be locked up. Harry would definitely get away with it.

The flip side is what effect it would have on him. Without opening up that "Does Harry kill" debate, in this case we suppose he did and accidental or not murdering someone you've known since they were eleven, for better or worse would have a profound effect on someone with Harry's generally standard moral compass.

Dumbledore would probably be devastated that the conflict had crept into Hogwarts as it has but with Voldemort back there'd be an outcry if he was forced to step down.

Dumbledore knows Harry, would know that he never meant it to end up that way and there would be a long speech about the consequences of magic but in the end, they'd still have to find the Horcrux and Harry would still have to be taught about them.

 

Yes he had.

I think a lot depends on whether Draco actually has the Dark Mark or not (he definitely does in the film, IIRC it's never actually confirmed in the books). If he does...Harry killed a Death Eater in self-defense. Legally speaking, he's probably pretty safe from repercussions, although I wouldn't put it past Scrimgeour to try and use it as leverage to bring Harry more under his control, although that's only going to be good for a couple of months tops, given Voldemort's presumably already in place plans for a coup.

In terms of Harry at Hogwarts, it's a bit up in the air. As far as we see in canon, Harry gets all the punishment IIRC - this is presumably a combination of Draco recovering from his wounds, and Dumbledore trying to keep the full details of the duel quiet for one reason or another. If he's dead, there's no reason to keep his use of an Unforgivable quiet, so presumably Harry wouldn't face the same official consequences because see above re: self-defence. That could go either way though. Unofficially though, bare minimum he's going to be subject to Heir of Slytherin levels of side-eye in the corridors. He's also going to be feeling extremely guilty and broody.

Beyond that, there's literally dozens of things that could change. Snape may or may not be forced to take over Draco's plan, although Dumbledore still dies - the wound on his arm is terminal, and he wasn't going to last much longer than he did anyway. If he doesn't kill Dumbledore, he's perhaps free to give Harry the necessary information earlier, or at least more practically, which could lead to a shorter war. On the other hand, it's not like they'd be any closer to finding the other Horcruxes, so...

 

Malfoy threatened Borgin by showing him something on his arm - he was almost certainly marked, even in the books.

 

okay, it's been long enough since i've read the books that i couldn't remember if he had gotten slughorn's memory or not by this time...

one other slight consideration, although probably getting too ooc from canon, is the thought that Harry might make the potentially irrational choice to attack Snape upon his finding Harry standing over a dead Malfoy...

If Harry thinks that he's screwed, and has to make a 'run for it' because of said murder... could be an interesting take- tho perhaps unlikely given canon Harry's typical actions.

OTOH, he has been known to attack professors for one reason or another- particularly Snape (i'm thinking third year) and given his lack of trust in him, this could be a particularly interesting twist. On one hand, Snape could probably subdue him, and move on to the other consequences outlined by Shinysavage, but, on the other hand, there is the possibility that Harry successfully surprises Snape and at the least, incapacitates him, and at the worst, hurts/kills him as well- given past animosity, it's not completely out of the realm of possibility. This could lead to a host of interesting new problems for Harry- with very few good outcomes possible.

In any case, i'm still wondering about any fics that take on this premise...

 

Either that or it was Dragon Pox.

 

I assumed it was because Dumbledore wanted to believe Draco was redeemable—if it came out that Draco was a marked Death Eater who'd attempted to use an Unforgivable, he'd be headed straight to Azkaban for life.

 

Plus not wanting it generally known that Harry used such a (potentially) deadly and Dark curse - I know a lot of people will have known, but the average Hufflepuff or Ravenclaw would probably only have known that there was a duel, and again, it could have been used as leverage by Scrimgeour etc. Mostly the Draco thing though.

 

Its easy if you use movie as base. Snape vows to protect Draco so he will die when he will find him dead at bathroom. Dumbledore will cover that up by saying that they killed each other and obliviate Harry to be sure.

Rest of books 6-7 will stay same. Only difference is that at battle of Hogwarts wormtail will reveal that he is Dumbledore's superspy that will bring downfall of dark lord as its said at end of prophecy that DD omitted. That twist is as beliavable as Snape's personality change at end of DH as first six books shows that when Snape could help Harry's side he always takes Voldemort's side.

 

Personally I feel Dumbledore's response will be disappointment. We know that he feels he has failed Harry and that Dumbledore knew from the beginning what Malfoy was planning. Therefore we can see how Dumbledore would look past the result of the fight for the most part and blame himself for not dealing with Malfoy in the proper manner. When you think that Malfoy came so close to killing Ron and Katie I think that Dumbledore would accept it was a mistake not to act. As he said, his mistakes tend to be a bit bigger, combine that with the fact he was already dying to me suggests he would take all responsibility legally or otherwise.
Harry killed Quirrell in his first year, though its often forgotten it he knew what his touch did so he reached for Quirrell's face. Both times would have been clear self-defense and enough parallels can be drawn that Harry would feel bad but get over it. If anything it will push him to be more self-sacrificing in an attempt to earn redemption. Would Dumbledore accelerate his pans and then set Harry lose alone, would he be better guided, what would the hunt be like if Dumbledore gave Harry escorts.

 

Harry never told anyone in the books that Draco tried to use an Unforgivable, did he? He was basically in shock afterwards.

If Harry would have kept a cool head he could have pointed out that Draco was actually lucky to have been cursed, since if he would have managed the Cruciatus it might well have been life in Azkaban for him...

 

He did, actually.

 

Nobody really has to know what happened inside the bathroom. It was only Harry and Draco throwing deadly glowing confetti at each other before Snape flew in to stop the carnage. If Harry was to kill Draco, then I'd wager that only Snape, Dumbledore, Harry and the dead Draco who would know what really happened - I doubt that Dumbledore would want Draco's to be laid at Harry's feet, especially when the war is starting to ride up the steep hill towards the climax.

Simply say, 'Young malfoy offed himself, it is a very sad day indeed.' And it might just work, especially with how jittery and tired Malfoy seemed to be during the entire year.

 

Ah thanks for clearing that up, I had forgotten about this.

Still, I remember being surprised that Harry didn't bring it up in Dumbledore's office when they discussed his punishment for cursing Malfoy. I got the feeling from that scene that the take-away for the actors involved (at least Dumbledore and McGonogall if I recall correctly) was that "Harry cruelly cursed Malfoy" whereas the take-away should have been "Malfoy tried to Crucio Harry, and Harry panicked".

 

I would also like to read a story of Harry killing Draco in the bathroom fics.

If Draco dies, so does Snape, according to the book.

 

This isn't quite true. Moaning Myrtle saw everything that happened.

And even though few people would think to ask ghosts about what happened, Myrtle would probably take the initiative in telling others, since she really seemed to like Malfoy. So realistically, people are going to find out one way or another that Harry killed Draco, which means Dumbledore can only control how it comes out.

Most plausible is probably the aforementioned reveal of the Dark Mark, plus Harry's testimony under Veritaserum that Malfoy was about to use an Unforgivable and that he did not know exactly what Sectumsempra would do. There's a minor shitstorm, but it ends up being ruled self-defense since Malfoy also fired the first shot, so on and so forth.

Also, it's important to point out: Snape doesn't die. The exact wording of the Unbreakable Vow is as follows:

As long as Snape did everything in his power to heal Draco, which he presumably would do, he wouldn't die from the Vow, and Narcissa might even forgive him.

I don't even think it'd affect his soul all that much. Murder splits the soul, yes, but remember that remorse puts it back.

And Harry isn't merging with his horcrux here, he's just mending any minor damage over an accidental kill. Since he didn't mean to do it, it's almost a given that he'd regret it, which means he probably wouldn't stain his soul - and therefore Voldemort couldn't now possess him or something similar.

Dumbledore still dies soon anyway. Voldemort always expected Malfoy to fail, so he's probably got at least a few backup plans in the works which could succeed. Factor in Dumbledore's deterioration due to the curse in his hand, and it's pretty likely he'd be dead before the next school year. Knowing this, Dumbledore would probably have Snape kill him anyway, which basically puts Snape back right in the inner circle, just as it was in canon.

Basically, you go into DH with virtually the same setup. The only significant change is the whole convoluted wand ownership chain that involves Malfoy, since Harry basically got the Elder Wand by coincidence. Since Dumbledore would probably have been killed by Snape without being disarmed by Malfoy first, the Wand's power would have died with Dumbledore as he'd planned, and so when Harry came back to fight Voldemort, he wouldn't have that guarantee of victory.

 

Guys, no one uses veritaserum at trials. It is too easily defeated, for one, and it isn't necessary. We have an entire world full of legal systems that don't have truth detectors and still functions, so it's not like it's even necessary either. Volunteering to take veritaserum would also look incredibly suspicious in the first place, since the methods of defeating it are well known (hence why it is not used except in cases of emergency and when immediate truth is necessary and the person it is being administered to has no time to prepare).

 

It depends a lot on how Snape kills Dumbledore.

A lot of the shit that went down in the beginning of DH was because everyone was freaking out over Death Eaters infiltrating Hogwarts and killing Dumbledore, and because Snape was totally useless as a spy as no one trusted him.

If Snape, Dumbledore and the Order play the act differently (say, they frame it as Dumbledore dying from sickness and Snape get's to claim he poisoned the "remedy"), you still get Snape as an inner circle member but also useful informant for the Order/Ministry as they would still know to trust him. Also no panic for assassination in Hogwarts.

Having Snape as an actually usable spy makes all the difference. Voldemort says it himself: if Thicknesse is discovered or the attempt on Scrimgeours life fails his plans are set back significantly. Snape is in prime position to make both of those things happen.

Of course Dumbledore could have told the Order about Snape in canon too, but didn't. So yeah, maybe there is no change.