Books 2 to 7 are the best, and book 1 was fun as well despite feeling very much like a LOTR clone till the end.

Deteriorates badly from book 8 though. Book 12 where Brandon Sanderson takes over I thought was really good, especially the ending which made the whole series worth it, but book 13 I didn't think too much of and I've still got mixed feelings on the final book.

Some really epic, memorable moments in the series, most of them occurring when Rand, Mat or occasionally Perrin are the central POV.

On the other hand when it switches to Nyneave, Elayne, Egwene etc you start wondering about RJ's perception of women, he seems to write all his female characters as either stuck up nuns (most of the Aes Sedai) or spoilt princesses. Egwene and Elayne, by far the two most annoying POVs I've ever encountered in literature.

 

See, while I do think RJ's female characters are highly lacking in variation, I would argue that there is a method and motivation to the madness. RJ is writing a world that distinctly places women into the role we see men take in our own world. It's not a patriarchal world, but a matriarchal one. RJ's message tends towards how either gender being in charge is a bad thing and there is a need for equality, but the women are meant to be portrayed as something of a villain or power figures who lord it over others.

The societal elements of WoT is best read as a subtle satire and indictment of modern patriarchal systems by implementing a role reversal...that is hidden under a fantasy novel.

.....

Also RJ had some really weird fetishes.

 

It is amazing how many people haven't realized this. This series almost perfectly shows how many readers just impose modern dynamics on a story where the binary at play has been flipped.

I'm actually listening to Wheel of Time and I'm on Lord of Chaos right now, so this is extra pertinent considering how people generally react to the end of the book... Oh dammit, Cadsuanne shows up next book.

 

Is 'the slog' that bad? My friends told me to avoid the series just because of it. Naturally, I started reading it. The end of 'Eye of the World was a bit confusing/unsatisfactory, but the Great Hunt seems quite good so far.

 

I'll throw out there that this is why Rafe Judkins is fundamentally a terrible choice to have headed up the TV Show. He views the women being in charge as fundamentally a positive aspect of RJ's world rather than a system of oppression.

 

It's not. The only reason people call it that was because of how the publication rate was very slow during these. Yes, the pacing was a bit fucked but not as badly as people who read it as it came out say. The only one I think that has earned being called a slog is Winter's Heart. That book is easily the low point in quality in my personal opinion

I guess for some people a system of oppression being good or bad depends on who is doing the oppressing, but that is an entirely different conversation

Trying to post this from my phone has been a nightmare. Guess I shouldn't try to multiquote on my phone in the future.

 

Rafe Judkins was a bad idea for many reasons, but the primary one is that he doesn't understand the plot of his source material, so all the decisions he makes fundamentally violate it.

The very possibility of a woman being the Dragon breaks the magic system's most basic concepts.

...But back to the books...

I listened to the entire Wheel last year, and I can say the slog is real. At some point, Robert Jordan's plot/writing structure lost the tightness that the early books had. My assumption is that this was when he got to the point where he knew where he was coming from, knew where he had to go, but had no idea how to get there.

After he died, Brandon Sanderson came in and picked up the pieces, but his conclusion to the series kept a lot of the problems Jordan left him with. He wrapped it up for the most part, but there's still stuff in there that to this day makes very little sense.

The biggest example is the Black Tower plot. It featured prominently early on, then....got forgotten. By the time it got picked up again, it seemed to have taken a sharp right turn and some of the old plot threads no longer seem to make any sense.

Anyway. Read it, but know that while it's still a pretty good series, the slog is real.

Spoiler

Also, fucking Perrin and his fucking wife. NO ONE CARES.

 

That climax though...

 

Literally the best part, and easily top four in Wheel of Time climaxes, if not top two. I think Lord of Chaos is better though.

 

'Asha'man...Kill!" and "Rolling ring of Earth and Fire" - Dumai's Wells is just such a good sequence. Easily Jordan's finest work.

 

I'd have to give that to the entire sequence of "The Golden Crane flies to Tarmon Gai'don."

 

Honestly, I like it but I find that a lot more generic. To me Dumai's Wells is the best example of the violent potential of a magic system (I also love the clear shades of Vietnam. A rolling Ring of Earth and Fire looks exactly as I imagine explosions seen from a gun Huey).

 

Fair enough.

And 100%, so much of the stuff in WoT has to do with his time in Vietnam.

 

It's a shame the tv series ruined this great work of Robert Jordan. Wheel of time deserved HBO. Amazon ruined it.

 

Judkins ruined it. Amazon just bankrolled it.

 

How about we just... stop ruining books by adapting them? Best thing about the four episodes of the WoT show that I successfully managed to lie to myself about and watch all the way through (beyond that awesome shot of Lan and the skinned animals forming the Dragon's Fang) was that it finally convinced me to stop watching new adaptations of novels.

With exception of the Villeneuve Dune movies. Going to make an exception for that.

 

Anyone else think Robert Jordan has the best prose in fantasy? His prose really has a flow to it that I rarely see in other authors.

 

Yeah this moron ruined it. How hard is it to adapt a series which is completed. This isn't even like GOT where the books were unfinished.

 

The problem is mostly morons are in charge of these adaptions. Who even skips the epic Dragonmount prologue like that moron Judkins did?