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Wheel of Time TV Show

Discussion in 'Movies, Music and TV shows' started by 9th Doctor, Sep 2, 2021.

  1. Warlocke

    Warlocke Fourth Champion

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    For fans of the show, I hope it makes it that far.

    I think I can imagine some of the scenes longtime fans are waiting for...

    "Asha'man, kill!"


    Mat sparring with Gawyn and Galad would be entertaining, if done properly.
    Then again, the same could be said for most of the scenes in the series.
    Visual mediums have the advantage of instantly communicating all of the details about clothing, posture, facial expressions, music, and sounds instantly, thus saving a lot of time AND side-stepping one of critics' biggest complaints about the series. They just have to get it right and not change every little thing that made people like it.
     
  2. Joe

    Joe The Reminiscent Exile ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter ⭐⭐⭐

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  3. Arthellion

    Arthellion Lord of the Banned ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Episode 4 really hit it out of the park. I also think this is the clearest divide. If you don’t like what they’re going for after episode 4, you’re not gonna enjoy the show.

    For me though, the show is really hitting home and I’m enjoying it far more than the Witcher. Each episode keeps getting better and better.
     
  4. Swirly Mango

    Swirly Mango Seventh Year

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    If there's going to be a raging sun for the Dragon Reborn at the Eye of the World, at Tarwin's Gap, then what's the Choedan Kal usage going to be? A constant supernova? Is half the screen going to be blinding bright for an entire episode if it's a channelers PoV?
     
  5. Jaska

    Jaska Third Year

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    Episode 4 was probably the best one, but that only makes it decent. I didn't like many of the action scenes, hate the quick cuts and shaky camera. I really dislike what they're doing to male and female channelers. Logain is suddenly shielded by two Aes Sedai, when they needed six for him in books. It's implied Nynaeve and Egwene are stronger than him??? I guess this should have been expected, considering the trainwreck they have as a showrunner.
     
  6. RabidAsparagus

    RabidAsparagus Third Year

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    I just wish they'd dare to do something new. It's all perfectly within the constraints of the modern fantasy show. Everything is in a dark palette. The minstrel plays a faux lute (give Thom the harp please). A days walk covers your face in mud. Leather to the max. Most characters wear weird boots that just look wrong. The mysterious master warrior has a Katana. One of the characters arcs revolves around killing a woman immediately.

    Just dare to be original. Do something new. It feels like, hey GoT was successful and so was the Witcher. Let's take those and shove the Wheel of Time into their mien.
    E; Nynaeves actress deserves better than her garbage storyline. The whole point of the Two Rivers is the stubbornness of kings, and they took the most stubborn person and said hey they aren't from there.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2021
  7. yargle

    yargle Seventh Year

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    Through episode 4 I'm really enjoying it. It's not a perfect adaptation, or even a great one. It's like I said earlier in the thread, gotta treat it like a different turning of the wheel or one of the worlds of if (flicker).

    The filming does suffer from the obvious Game of Thrones influence regarding things like color, costuming, leather, etc. First episode is easily the weakest, and while I don't have troubles with Mat's actor yet I do dislike what they did to Abell Cauthon. Shameful. Also dislike what they did to mah boy Logain. Least favorite was the Children of the Light so far.

    I'm confused as to where the season ends and how they're getting the gang back together but I'm looking forward to the ride.

    I've absolutely loved the Dragon's Fang motif that's been recurring. I've only caught it twice, but both shots were absolutely amazing. Lan finding those dead animals in the woods laid out like the Dragon's Fang? The blood from the Trolloc Nynaeve kills in the water? Fucking amazing. I'm sure there's been something more subtle in episodes two and four, but I must have missed them.

    As a fantasy show, something like 7.5-10/10. As an adaptation of the books, definitely less. People gotta learn to separate their expectations from what happens. Or just do what I do and avoid any and all trailers, teasers and so on. Makes media consumption 1000-fold better.

    EDIT: Honestly, some of the things that I and other people dislike have obviously been due to the fact that the script was written within the last couple years. Some of the things regarding duality and thematic/character reflections have been lost so far but I have a feeling part of that has to do with cramming everything so far into eight episodes. Still, going to keep watching.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2021
  8. Erzherzog_Karl

    Erzherzog_Karl Squib

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    The fourth episode was a massive step backwards and continues the worst trends from the early episode. From giving Egwene the Hermione treatment on boosters to flanderizing the main characters, ending with attempting character arcs with the subtlety of a sledgehammer.

    The fourth episode leans the most into the "mystery" of "who is the dragon?" Essentially, it sets up(we hope) Nynaeve as the fifth candidate for dragon as an obvious red hering. Considering the apparent quality of the writing, I am not sure if in the end not everyone among the five simply will be declared to be the dragon.
    The whole set-up starts with Rand, I think, mentioning that the tavern girl talked about the five. Then the notion of the false dragon and dragon reborn are established, Logain is put forward as an obvious red hering for the episode as a contrast to the "real" candidate Nynaeve. As is hammered down at the end of the episode.

    The quality of the script keeps nose-diving to the ground, entering cringe-worthy territory. Best example, the talk about pacifism between a Tuatha'an and Perrin. They talk about picking up a weapon to defend oneself and she counts many weapons to then make a meaningful pause and look at Perrin to say "or an axe...". Dumdumdum...the subtlety of a sledgehammer.

    With now being given more examples, I can convincingly say that the Aes Sedai will be a Botox brigade. The other complaint regarding their portrayal is that the description and portrayal of their power levels are all over the place. In the first episode, Moiraine easily no-sells a sword/dagger thrown at her that seriously injured her. In this episode, they fall to less severe injuries and would seemingly perish without Nynaeve casting mass heal/rebirth.
    Then they intend to bring Logain to the Tower with an army on their heels but remain in the same place for a longer time with no signs of leaving. Just because one among them thinks they scattered. It is stated how one of them would be able to topple an army, but their fight is portrayed as them getting slaughtered en masse and in the end fighting a fighting retreat to just end up with them slaughtering the army.

    From an acting perspective, Logain massively overshadows the remaining cast in this episode. He owns his scenes with a gravitas and serenity, you would expect from the Aes Sedai.

    The shifting between three different perspectives and setting with their differing themes hurts the episode. Rand & Co are fleeing and urgency is needed. This differs from the Tinkers and them offering a place of sanctuary or distraction for Hermionized Egwene and Perrin. To Nynaeve waiting in nowhere for the plot to finally happen.

    But worst of all, the characters are not so established to make one actually care for them. Thom? Yeah...he was gone before he could leave anything behind except a bad aftertaste. And the main cast is turned bland to create the mystery of who is the dragon. Perrin is hit the worst with this to make Egwene likable. All his takedown against her are gone just to make her look good and her actions changed to make it stick. From his butchered character arc it is best not to talk.

    This cannot even be called just good fantasy. At the moment, it looks like it will replace Eragon as the new lowest standard on the scale of bad book adaptations.
     
  9. yargle

    yargle Seventh Year

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    Clearly someone has never seen Winter Dragon.
     
  10. Arthellion

    Arthellion Lord of the Banned ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    The hate here is pretty hilarious to me because every non book reader I've talked with IRL and a lot of people on twitter/dragonmount are loving it.

    Episode 4 was the highest rated episode so far on IMDB with a 9.2.

    For context, Episode 1 was a 7.6, 2 a 8.2. 3 an 8.1.

    So idk. I think there is a clear divide between those who are wanting a pure adaptation and those just enjoying it as it's own thing. As it's own thing, it's a solid B+ right now. As an adaptation it'd rank in the C/D category.

    It's by no means as bad as Eragon but not as good as Game of Thrones. I'd put it at Witcher Season 1 or Shadow and Bone tier.
     
  11. yargle

    yargle Seventh Year

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    I just deleted a large post because frankly, it was nothing but a large rant, so I'll keep the only parts worth keeping.

    I'm literally re-reading/listening to the series at the moment. Yes, there are differences from the books. Doing an adaptation is difficult, especially when a story is as internal as WoT is. It's a different turning of the wheel. Maybe earlier, maybe later. Or it may be what could have happened if certain events in history went differently (flicker).

    It's perfectly serviceable so far. Effects are miles better than season 1 Game of Thrones. Sometimes the writing is great, sometimes it is less so. Same can be said with the acting. This is true of every great tv show ever made and will ever be made.

    If someone isn't liking it by ep4, it's okay to stop watching. Hate-watching is dumb so don't do it. But I'm not the boss of anyone but me. Do what you want.
     
  12. Majube

    Majube Order Member DLP Supporter

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    "Different turning of the wheel", I hate that fucking cliche saying. It's just another way of saying they've totally changed parts. So what that the effects are better than season 1 of Game of Thrones, that season came out 10years ago and the show/books were never as high fantasy as WoT with constant magic.

    I didn't mind the cheap looking effects or that they've made Ba'alzamon and Fades simple jump scare looking people. I didn't care that the acting looked and felt stilted sometimes. All of those I truly didn't mind.

    And I didn't fully care that much about them changing the characters with the writing in the first three episodes. But this latest episode does have me disappointed. Them changing the underlying lore is such a shame because that means the payoffs later down the road won't have nearly as much impact.

    I'm not hate-watching, I like seeing Nynaeve and Mat onscreen and I'm looking forward to other characters. But for all these people saying lower your expectations for an adaptation.. What the fuck are you on about? DnD did a way better adaptation of GoT, even Witcher and Shadow and Bone was better. These changes that they've made to the story and lore are all worse than the original. I don't know how much of it is Judkins or how much is Amazon leaning on him to produce a starring show now instead of letting it be more subtle at first but my only consolation is that it can only go up from here.
     
  13. Odran

    Odran Fourth Champion

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    They have no knowledge of the source material, and thus nothing to compare this show with, so why even bring them up? How are they even relevant to the complaints brought up by people who read the books? "Dude, I liked it, I don't care about the books"? Is that an argument now?

    Should be sterilized and promptly forgotten.

    And this seems to be the go-to phrase that everyone brings up to handwave the differences between source material and adaptation. If this was truly a different turning of the wheel, they might as well have not used any characters we know and borrowed very little of the plot as put down by Robert Jordan. No one could fault them then for casting whoever they want or changing the story as they go.

    As it is, it's stupid to just say this and think the matter settled.

    One other thing, since I saw someone bring up the AMA from the dude running the show.

    Of course the show-runners will tell people it's all gonna turn out good, why the fuck would they admit they're gonna fuck up things or made a muck of things, intentionally or otherwise.

    Anyway, watched episode 4, even worse of an offender than the previous ones. The whole "exploding with light" that Nynaeve did - and Logain somehow seeing it? Fucking retarded. They can't even stick to the basics how men and women can't feel each other - let alone see - using the One Power. And some girl randomly exploding with emotions qualifies as the raging sun?

    Also, I've just started a re-read of the books thanks to this shitshow, and I've realized one other thing that I don't like about itL: Lan is so diminished as a character. I get that it's an adaptation and not everything can fit - that's within normal expectations - but he has not had any moments where he tries to connect to any of the main three characters. It's just missing and I didn't realize it until I just reread how much it impacts them. In the books, it's Moiraine who leads them to Shadar Logoth, but in the show, it's Lan's initiative to go there and seek shelter from the warband pursuing them. There's no "shepherd" or "blacksmith" moments he shares with Perrin or Rand. No sword lessons with Rand. No nothing. This diversion with Logain was such a waste of time, the screentime should have been used so much better.
     
  14. Otters

    Otters Seventh Year ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Every failure of the show, to greater or lesser extents, can be traced back to the decision to push the ensemble cast angle from the get-go instead of letting Rand be the primary protagonist at the start and expand outwards as paths diverge.

    If we had been predominantly in Rand's head until Shadar Logoth, things would have gone so much smoother.
     
  15. Warlocke

    Warlocke Fourth Champion

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    I believe it's what the kids these days are calling 'copium.'

    Based and Randpilled.

    I actually only wrote this post so I could make that pun.

    I'll agree this was utterly stupid, and it was almost solely done so the show-runners could wax masturbatory about how powerful Nynaeve is (and, doubtless, to pump up women as a whole in the show, which is ludicrous since the novels are chockablock with insanely powerful women but, when it comes to these people, too much is never enough).

    However, it is canon that, while men can't see women's weaves and vice versa and women can't feel Saidin being channeled, men can feel it when a woman channels Saidar. It's one of the few small advantages men have when it comes to the One Power. They can't necessarily point to who was doing it (unless it was obvious), but it does give them goosebumps. Rand's POV shows this happen several times.

    Seems to me that the 'exploding with light' bullshit was just a ripoff of the book scene where Logain's talent of being able to spot ta'veren allows him to see Rand 'glowing' in the distance, when he's being paraded through Caemlyn. "He was far away, but I saw a ... a glow, and I knew he'd shake the world. Caged as I was, I couldn't help laughing."
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2021
  16. RabidAsparagus

    RabidAsparagus Third Year

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    Don't really disagree with much of the post, but men absolutely can feel women holding the power - Rand notices Egwene and Elayne in Book 3, the Asha'man in Book 6 & 7 can feel the Aes Sedai prisoners at Dumai's Wells when they embrace saidar. They can't see the weaves or be certain of who, but they definitely know when women are holding/using saidar.

    Speaking of which, reading through again is great. Planning on skipping Crossroads of Twilight, but having a blast thus far. Really seeing why I liked Moiraine so much in the past and loving all the sword scenes. It's not Christian Cameron, but it does its own thing enough that I love it. Noticing other things too - I always envisioned Lan out of armour in most of the early books, but he puts on a scale habergeon as they leave the Winespring. I like that.

    E: Also in the books, Lan is explicitly the first to mention Shadar Logoth - he says 'There is a place shadowspawn will not go' and Moiraine says no until they have no other choice.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2021
  17. Odran

    Odran Fourth Champion

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    True, but does she tell him "You killed us" when they do in fact go there? I feel moments like these matter in the show. It foretells the shape of things to come, and I sure as fuck don't like what I'm seeing.

    As if that scene where the women of Emond's Field pitchfork a Trolloc to death wasn't subtle enough.

    Also, I stand corrected on the matter of men feeling women holding the One Power, currently finishing up the Great Hunt - God, I love the scenes in this one so much.

    I have won again, Lews Therin.
     
  18. RabidAsparagus

    RabidAsparagus Third Year

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    Fair I guess. What's your favourite book? For me...I don't know, I love The Shadow Rising - Rhuidean is just such a turning point but also maybe A Crown of Swords because it hits a bunch of consistent highs for me.

    Obviously the worst is Crossroads of Twilight, the book that did not need to be.
     
  19. Odran

    Odran Fourth Champion

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    Eye of the World. The adventure's just starting, the world holds so much mystery to it. All those places they visit - much less lounging about.
     
  20. yargle

    yargle Seventh Year

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    Was rewatching this scene on YouTube because it is gold, and I noticed something rather sneaky.

    Rand doesn't join in until after the "They bought the land with their blood." Nice touch, definitely means Tam did some of that babbling on the walk in from the farm.
     
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