Jan, I don't think I remember seeing an answer to this question

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Damn Miner, you had to snipe post 500?

 

Thoughts on the game miner?

 

...

Really?

 

Oh I missed his last line.

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I assume that's what you're referring to.

 

I'm kinda saddened he passed up on a perfect opportunity to make a "Let it Go" joke

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(ducks for cover)

 

Think this is another thing that's surface level whatever, but on Vira's level kind of speaks to coming from a village mindset.

Eh, bit thin. Well. Actually I feel like I have enough of a meta handle on Vira to feel somewhat strong about this, I'm just not super comfortable expanding on that read.

????

Isn't standard procedure for the GD to just share the fact that someone was town, and only out the role if it was a hit? For this exact reason?

lol Ika

Regfan you wanted to talk about Vaimes, like. Pretty sure that's just town!Vaimes?

Why is your read on him embarrassing?

It's okay if you scumread him, you know. If you're a witch and he's town, that's never happening. And if you're town then just rock and roll and it'll be a spicy read.

This is the tail end of that exchange; fonti/Vaimes suuuuper unlikely to be w/w here based on the Goldilocks-level engagement / lack of agenda (moreso on Vaimes's part but)

And it's actually not the end it continues to 178 yeah that's just never w/w.

 

Home at my own laptop! Wooohoo.

Got a pot of green tea made and going to be going over this for the next few hours, will probably try and collate my reads & thoughts and put it down in a big post, if anyone is around and wants me to focus on a specific person / section slightly more let me know.

 

Want to say in general that I focused on this read in the first place because it was my most against consensus read. At this point I've been fighting myself so much for the right words to explain my thought process that I think I'm actually just mere-exposure-effecting myself to think he's town, so I'm done writing about him for a while. If you have a response I'll still read it obvz.

I don't get the impression that he would think talking about mechanics would get him townread, I think he'd want to get townread and try to do so via being ahead of the curve on content; would expect him to vote in an alignment indicative way or give some kinda hottake at some point early as a witch.

Re:the bolded part, the "circumstances" were just that he was at work/phoneposting
->A town marker from Regfan I was looking for was amount of reads; had a positive impression of Reg coming out with the Jan read here just after the long bit to Jari. Seemed to be spitting out stuff at a good pace. Depth of his reads in and of themselves are in no way out of his scumrange, just think that the speed at which he was churning them out while at work and the extent to which he was following while at work was indicative of him being hyperfocused on the thread. Seems villagey for Reg based on his alignment preference.
->Timestamps + tone of #242 and #245 while phoneposting seem self-assured. I see it as pressure dealt with well. (albeit- I don't understand/agree with the "Don't for a second buy that your differentiation between pretyped and not is how spaced apart it is" part re:Jan)

Also think Reg's nicer/more boring as scum and thus the "I'm unlynchable" is not a tack I think he prob takes as a witch.

 

I thought about it more (what I posted in #122 and #206) and I'm not convinced that we should have any claims today.

The primary two reasons to have a joint oracle/watchman claim without info reveal is that these two roles are among the most likely to be dropped by witches, so forcing a Witch who has another into committing to one of these roles is good since it will limit their options for later in the game.

Secondly, cleared townies at such an early stage are not ideal, since Witches can modify their play around it. It's better for this sort of information to come out later in the game.

The second point is achieved by simply having none of them claim and the first could be moot (if neither are witches) or unimportant by the virtue of the exact witch breakdown.

I'm also not sure that revealing such strong town roles at an early stage is actually +EV. Granted, if witches kill them they aren't killing the priest - but if you were a witch priest hunting and you learned you killed one of these roles you'd be very happy regardless.

--

On GD claim, I don't think it's the best play for a few reasons:

1. There are many more ways to check the GD for honesty than there was in the games that established the 'gd must claim' meta.

2. It's lame. Letting people play to the strengths of their role and the hidden information they have is one of the best things about WH, and forcing the GD to claim robs them of this for marginal +town utility.

3. It went pretty well in FS WH12 til I flubbed it.

 

KaiDASH - Ha, was just about to ping you to get around to elaborating on that; not too sure I agree with the "No claims" strategy, will think it over and get back to you about that in a few hours. Interested in what your reads are at the moment given the only stance I can glean from your ISO is a town read on Fonti, reasoning attached with them would be very much appreciated too.

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Decided instead of just dumping my thoughts in one huge post that no one will read I'll just post them as sections as I go -- pretty much finished catching up on the thread and doing some ISO's in some side tabs. Still a bunch of players I've got absolutely no read on thus far [Koalas, Kai, Cobalt].

I touched on most of my thoughts at the time on Fluff inside Post #216 and going over his earlier posts again I still find the a lot of it calculated and the Jan vote reasoning problematic and his explanation about it in Post #490 is just as bad given he's pretty much ignored what Newcombs actually trying to explain there and responded with a non-answer.

Also find the reads given inside Post #365 feel very much like reads that are intentionally safe thread consensus type ones that I think scum are very likely to be giving there particularly after being scum read early on.

I like the conclusion and some of Fluff's reasoning behind wanting the Gravedigger claim inside Post #463 but the fact that he'd gone about discussing the mechanics and merits to the claim in this fashion without really commenting on or referring to anyone elses prior reasoning behind the move doesn't feel particularly genuine. So overall I still think there's a very good chance that Fluffs mafia here.

 

Seemed super happy/spammy early, which is scum indicative for him. Pretty boring since; hyperfocused on one Jan post, bit of mechanics, and some past game commentary that mostly doesn't feel relevant to solving this one. Overall, macaroni and cheese colored.

 

Hullo 'strayans. Delphine.

Since you guys are scumreading HF, is this post more or less likely to come from a partner?

Catching up in a bit, but since you asked for directed reads Reg; I'd like to see stuff on Fable and Owner, maybe some Waco as well.

 

Went over Vira again (Touched on her inside Post #216) but Newcomb put it much better than I did recently in that her Post #139 comes very much across as her legitimately attempting to get a read on me in a fashion I don't think she'd do as mafia, I think the post is a very strong town tell.

I also think the comparison and way she's handling her read on me given Typhon last game inside Post #266 is something that makes plenty of sense to do as town and the quick fact-check of Fontis prior activity inside Post #271 similarly comes across as town. I also really liked her interaction with Atum and find that a lot of her posts come across as her being relaxed/comfortable in the thread here. Feel very confident with Vira being town here.

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@Jari - No problem; will get around to them shortly.

 

Fable's early posts had a hedgy feel in his first couple of reads, and I feel like he's going for all the easy reads with no real depth to them that I can see:

Interesting

I feel like Jan's play this game is a lot more self aware than in previous games, leading to less insightful stuff ITT so far. If more stuff comes from him once he's done crumbing all his roles I'll somewhat happily add him to the town.

fontisian 25+ of your 38 posts are about Miner. You've got oneliner town reads on Delphine and Atum, but where are you at with the other 15 people in the game?

I'm asking for myself.

 

Newcomb - I'll get into where I'm at re; Vaimes later tonight, probably going to have another few goes through his ISO first but if I forget remind me because this is a conversation I want to have with you when we're both on together.

Delphine - Mind running through what your intention was behind the Gospel gimmick and what you think it achieved inside the game (Outside of "It felt fun to do) if any, also wouldn't mind knowing the reasoning behind the timing of you dropping it being the sole way of posting.

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I think Newcomb being concerned re; me not having early reads posted inside Post #190 given what he knows about me as a player is fairly understandable and I think the comment re; town reading Fonti in Obs felt very genuine as did the "Too much to hope Vaimes/Fonti/Reg are all town" and "If Reg had LC I'd be dead" type lines inside Post #215 and liked the playful comfortable interaction with Vaimes in Post #486.

I like that he had the same early town read on Vira that I did inside Post #198 and not having the Rubicon scum read fits exactly where I was too; can tell fairly early on his reasoning mirrored mine inside Post #217 and the progression to getting back to it and explaining it again inside Post #498 feels very town.

I also found that his Miner read explanation inside Post #479 to fit where my heads at on the situation as well, in that I don't think it's suspicious that Miner interacted and joked around with Fonti early on but the way and tone that he did so was what felt forced like he's trying to replicate how he'd naturally do it and find the sheer degree of mind-meld there a big town tell. Actually feel very good about Newcomb being town here.

 

HF asking a leading question to Rubi and then giving an easy, factual answer that doesn't require him to show much thought at all about the current game is townread worthy?

HF/Rubi/Fable w/w/w? It would be glorious.

Dead bird much?

I'll clarify that statement. We have this saying "making someone happy with a dead pidgeon" in Dutch. At first it looks like you did a nice thing, but it turns out to be nothing.

Are you close to having a real wall?

 

I read both >rand scum and so I would say more likely partners than not for that as opposed to an actual opinion on that statement being partnered/not. I don't like either of the reads Fable has given on Fluff.

 

Really guys?

The whole Fluff mechanics with Fable interjecting dumbtells? I really want Fable and Fluff to be w/w right now.

Fable

First Newcomb post this game that I'd say is town indicative for him.

Newcomb Would Miner fit with Fable/HF/Rubi? Anyone there that doesn't fit?

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Whoops

Vote: Fable

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More decent Newcomb posts in the last bit of catch up.

I like this post. Felt like Fable's easy townread on Waco earlier could have been w/w, but maybe it was TMI instead.

Good news Waco, I'll take you out of my first full scumteam guess and put Owner back in. She's not really aligned with anyone, but really scummy individually.

Owner/Fable/HF/Rubicon/Miner for the bestest early solve ever.

 

I think Atums entrance post particularly in regards to his scum read on me inside Post #281 reads as very genuine; it's not the sort of post I'd expect scum coming back from a hiatus to make at all and the "Why are you discussing this while scum can drop a role" merge combined with the follow ups to fit town dropping thoughts as they come across more than scum attempting to get town read.

Also think his elaborated reasoning behind his scum read on me in Post #292 and Post #298 is something that makes plenty of sense from someone that's not seen me play in the past. Similarly think his interaction with both Vira and Delphine in posts like Post #303 strengthen it being a legitimate read from him.

Really like the thought process walked through with his Rubicon Jan reads inside Post #333 and would be pretty shocked if that post comes from scum, similarly like his reaction towards being town read by Fonti inside Post #340. Very confident that Atums town here.

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Also since Atum and a few others seem sceptical of the point of my initial post here, it was something I'd prepared to have posted pre-game and pre-role PM with the intention of getting an early consensus on the claim strategy for the day since it being something that drags into mid or even late D1 means there's an over focus on it then instead of scumhunting, reads and wagon creation and reactions which has been a huge problem in the past few games here. Having it sorted early also means we have more time to assess the claimed player.

Knowing how DLP works there's a huge amount of active players at pregame start so having it as a instantaneous post while assisting scum to a degree in entering the thread (Although I'd argue that you can still differentiate scum that are intentionally focusing solely on mechanics with no genuine reason to avoid other happenings in the game than town) leads towards an overall better situation and a move I consider +EV.

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Atum - I think we're just very different type of players here; if you want to take a quick look through my meta to try and get a better feel for me let me know and I'll link a few pages but the "Unlynchable comment" was moreso because I've not actually been mslynched as town in ~4 years and have never been mslynched D1 before; I generally back myself to be very transparent with my reads/thoughts inside the game. If you need me to run through/explain anything in particular feel free to ask. Would like you to touch your read on the Miner/Vaimes/Fonti trio when you get a chance though.

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Going to grab some dinner and then get back to this.

@Jari - I'll read your posts then but if you get a spare sec wouldn't mind you commenting on your thoughts on my recent reads & reasoning and letting me know what you agree/disagree with and why.

 

Proverbs 21:29 was actually ~exactly my fluff read which is partially why it was so tilting that people seem not to have gotten it. Overeager as opposed to thoughtful/genuine. Searching for "wicked" and finding verse 27 was actually how I stumbled upon verse 29 though, so it's interesting that you picked that out. Don't think verse 27 was a good fit in context at all though.