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Hey everyone!

Please join us in welcoming @Irene to the staff team as a moderator for the Politics forum. Please consider her the first contact for any issues that arise in that section for the foreseeable future. Show her verdicts the same deference you show the current members of staff.

Please greet your new overlord here.

Thanks. -Jon

~/* Witchhunt *\~ Game Started!

Discussion in 'Little Italy' started by Chocolate Pi, Mar 26, 2012.

  1. KaiDASH

    KaiDASH Auror DLP Supporter

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    Such posts can still happen, with or without moscone - its just that this game chocolate pi was too busy to make them.
     
  2. Aekiel

    Aekiel Angle of Mispeling ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    I agree with this. While I do enjoy having a long day to plan my actions and read other peoples' posts, I think the streamlining of the info-gathering system has made 72 hour days a bit less necessary. I reckon we could do better with a 48 hour day in this case, and with it we would still likely have a way to use the Judge effectively.

    As an aside, I noticed when I played Judge that it's not very fun at all. The town is too paranoid of a scum Judge to ever risk a no lynch scenario, even if the Judge is town in that game. If we're going to keep the Judge as a role, we'd need something to make risking the lynch more profitable for town, or at least less catastrophic.
     
  3. KaiDASH

    KaiDASH Auror DLP Supporter

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    The point that chocopi made about the judge is that it isn't necessarily mechanically strong on it's own (since no lynches are rather rare) but it has very positive effects on the game at large - The 'risk' of a scum judge kind of ensures that people will always try to get a lynch going, which is good for the game.

    edit: Which is the point Kalas was making, but he was saying it is -scum with such long days - I disagree since 'not enough time to make a not shit decision' is why 24 hour day games are bad. Like, this game would have been way different if klackerz just didn't post 'lol i dunno my role but lets court me' after the huge discussion on how certain roles shouldn't go court, and likewise for lutris being afk. Those lynches would have happened no matter what the day length was.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2012
  4. Eidolonic

    Eidolonic Supreme Mugwump

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    Yeah. I understand completely that it can be sort of unfun for the player that has the role, though, and I'm not sure how to fix that. Perhaps adding a secondary effect onto the role in some manner?

    You may either <Normal Judge stuff> or <secondary thing> each day?

    The old Diviner role maybe? I dunno. Just a thought to improve the personal aspect of the role.

    It's absolutely essential for the game to have it, precisely /because/ of what Kalas and Aekiel complained about. There needs to be that threat of a scum judge to make lynches happen.
     
  5. jwlk

    jwlk Seventh Year

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    The point they're making is that, while the role has a good impact on the game, it might not necessarily be the funniest to play... Since I don't think there are many no lynches.

    Throughout all of the WH games on Moscone, have there been any no lynches? (that not know the judge is 100% dead)

    ---------- Post automerged at 08:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:30 PM ----------

    ... Ninja'd.
     
  6. Koalas

    Koalas First Year ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Sorry that I wasn't clear on this. Non!holy Judge is necessary mechanic-wise as it fosters active players.

    In practice however the role becomes redundant. Max Day length was 120 hours iirc? With a day of that length there is no real situation where a poor lynch decision is made (with the possible exception of Night 1). Every potential target has time to post, have a case, counter-case, etc. Last minute efforts or RR's become scummy in themselves because what town member would wait so long?

    The point I'm trying to make is the longer a Day goes on, the greater the likelihood of a Town satisfactory lynch target. The 'push' from a Judge role is nice but unnecessary.
     
  7. Eidolonic

    Eidolonic Supreme Mugwump

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    Well, yes. The lynch is (and should be) the Town's strongest weapon by significant amounts. This is why I strongly advocate longer days, and completely loathe 24-48 hour days. The court kill is being nerfed to balance out the kills a little bit, and return the game to a better balance instead of being slightly Town-sided.

    Unnecessary? Maybe. But it is still an existing factor, and I think the judge needs to be in the game, even if it can be a little unfun for the player that has the role. They're effectively vanilla, which... isn't a horrible thing, but they're one of the few roles that exist strictly as a check with minimal personal involvement.
     
  8. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    Keep the judge and make the days 24-48 hours. That way, it might actually be used once or twice, and shorter days make for a faster paced game. More fun for everyone. Long ass days are boring as fuck :/
     
  9. Eidolonic

    Eidolonic Supreme Mugwump

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    Fuck no. 24-48 hour days are god awful. You can't /do/ anything, and scum can just mindlessly band wagon with no real consequence, especially in a hunt setup.
     
  10. Aurion

    Aurion Headmaster

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    24 hour Mafia days are the worst thing.

    No ifs, no ands, no buts.

    Edit: I like 60-72 hour days, myself. 60 can be a little tricky (particularly for mods in odd timezones) though.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2012
  11. Eidolonic

    Eidolonic Supreme Mugwump

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    I'm alright with 72 for DLP games. I prefer slightly longer ones, but 72 is probably the best mix for the playerbase we have here.
     
  12. jwlk

    jwlk Seventh Year

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    No one is arguing against the judge role, I think everyone understands the importance. The idea is needed, just the role will rarely, if ever, need to be used. Which is the point, but still, sucks for that person.
     
  13. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    You have 24-48 hours to do something. I check the thread at least every hour for new developments, you'd think that in two days you could have three or four different bandwagons :|

    In any case, the day length we had here was ridiculous, and I'm not playing another game with days as long as that. The gameplay was more sluggish than a turtle in the mud. Hours where nothing happens is bad enough, but here we had days where nothing happened, and that's just no fun at all.


    Edit: Plus, I don't even buy the argument. What happens when you have longer days is not that more happens, but instead it gets pushed further back ("because there's still time"). The real stuff always happens in the last 12 hours or so, and the last 12 hours are part of every day length.
     
  14. jwlk

    jwlk Seventh Year

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    Meh, I like long days :/
     
  15. Eidolonic

    Eidolonic Supreme Mugwump

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    Hours where nothing happens is just.. going to happen. People have lives, time zones exist, etc. Hours with nothing happening in short days is much more punishing to the game quality than hours with nothing happening in much longer days.
     
  16. Koalas

    Koalas First Year ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Personally I find 72 hours to be optimal. More then enough time for an active town to get everything it needs done, but short enough that smart scum can still manage some shenanigans.
     
  17. Ash

    Ash Moves Like Jagger DLP Supporter

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    24 hour days suck when the players suck. I think 48 hours is optimal, 72 hours is definitely too much for me.
     
  18. bob99

    bob99 High Inquisitor

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    The day length definitely should be adjustable. Long days are nice, but are unneeded in the end game.
     
  19. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    72 is my personal upper limit, yeah. The 48 hours of HoT were better though. For larger games, that is my favourite length.

    In any case, what I'd like to try, I think, would be something like a Mafia marathon. You pick a weekend (~48 hours) where you do nothing but play Mafia, and try to fit an entire real-sized game in there. Days/nights of 4 hours or so. Maybe with a sleep-break at halftime. I'm not sure if that could possibly work, but it sounds like fun. High-speed mafia :)
     
  20. jwlk

    jwlk Seventh Year

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    You could do that via IRC.

    I would do it^ As long as it was on a weekend. I doubt you'll have even close to enough people to make this work, though. Maybe some smaller games.
     
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