Here's a concept that I've mulled for a while:
Would Fidelius work on a non-human sapient? A demon or an alien would have a brain and a conciousness that would be Very Different from homo sapiens sapiens. How far would the standard human brain design have to drift for spells that target the human brain to become ineffective?

 

That would look interesting. A satellite would "see" nothing, and eventually someone would notice that there's a spot that got divided by zero.

I personally agree with Taure on this one, it's not like the terrain fails to show up, but it's more like the map simply shows it as a blank spot. Instead of an island there's ocean, or perhaps a bunch of nondescript buildings show up in London. The location exists, but it's camouflaged.

 

I believe that it states somewhere that the secret is hidden within a person's soul, and so presumably it can work with anything that has a soul.

 

I have no defence, other than a pathological and unyielding urge to reply.

 

Taure: Why do I get the feeling you're one of those people that is impossible to shut up once you get going?

Anyways, I'm still firmly in the Wizardly camp for this. Highly magical areas may disrupt electrical equipment but it apparently needs a large amount of magic cast on a regular basis for it to build up to any noticeable level. Like say hundreds of students casting spells every day for a thousand years?

Aekiel

 

Because you've seen my posts on this forum?

 

You'll have to put some effort into convincing me that Diagon/Nocturne Alleys aren't as magic-rich and long-term saturated magic as Hogwarts. For all its student, elf, and object activity, there are long stretches (summer and holidays and emergency closures, for example,) that are far less active. The only time the Alleys weren't hopping seems to have been during the height of the Wars.

 

Meehh...I dunno. The only reason I disagree is because of Harry's cloak. It was made by 'Death', and supposed to never fade out (or in, I suppose), resist summoning, and make the wearer impossible to detect ...yet the Homonis Revelio and Moody's magical eye came along. But even my argument is on shaky legs, as this would be a case of magic one-upping magic, as opposed to tech over magic. Still, it's not completely unreasonable to think something that's unplottable can become..plotted (?).

@Banner: The Demon and alien examples are a stretch that you don't have to make. What about making a Secret Keeper out of goblins, centaurs, phoenixes, etc?

I agree with Banner about Diagon/Knockturn, and definitely include Hogsmeade; they have to be easily as saturated as Hogwarts. A

 

We don't really know by what process an area becomes so magical that it stops technology from working. It may have nothing to do with the number of people using magic there, or for how many years this has been taking place.

Personally, I'd say that it's more to do with how "magical" a place is. I'm not talking about a scientific idea of a quantifiable magicality, but rather, a more "Disney-esque" view of magic - the same way Dumbledore considered music magical. Hogwarts is, undeniably, more magical than a street in London by this way of thinking.

 

Note to all people entering this thread: Read it. Chances are, if you think you have a great argument, it's been said before. Many times before. And it's been defeated.

That means you, XxEnvyxX, Piemann. Shut the fuck up. Every single time a new person from DLP comes into this debate, they make the same claim on why muggles will always win. It's been answered, time and again.

Reyhkt, I respect your argument, since you actually put some thought into it. But I'd counter that too much of it is speculation. I would draw the opposite conclusion from the evidence. Why haven't we seen floating cities in the wizarding world? Why isn't Diagon Alley the size of China? Because Diagon Valley isn't the size of China. Because magic isn't that powerful in HP. Because to the average wizard, Stupefy is a very powerful curse (this is another point I've made repeatedly; read the thread, noobs).

 

And also, because wizards fight with each other, and a city that's hanging in the sky would be rather more vulnerable than a city on the ground. It's just one more potential line of attack.

But yeah, the main reason why wizards don't have flying cities is because wizards don't have cities at all.

 

I'm reading through the thread like you guys said I should, and I find it pretty damn funny. Its essentially Taure logic-raping everyone, Sword of Elisha making up rules on the spot, people saying Dumbledore/Voldemort/Harry will win the war singlehandely and people believing wizards to all have Dumbledore like strength plus seeker reflexes and some rambling about nukes.

And this is only 9 pages in! I'll edit this later with further findings.

Time to sort out some of these things:
Taures logic rape:
http://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=173345&postcount=249
This post is seemingly ignored by everyone, though it does reveal why Taure is so adamant concerning magic victory. Figuring out why is the first step to beating him


Sword of Elisha making up rules
Essentially, whenever the topic of betrayals was brought up (Was due to banhammer) he would start yammering about how its "Muggle Vs Magic." IMO we're trying to accurately figure out what would happen if it did come to a war (Why else would this thread have been made), which means we must consider EVERY variable. That includes traitors as well as the unmentioned PoWs.

Voldemort/Dumbledore/Harry winning the war for wizarding kind
Voldy and Dumbledore are dead, and Harry sucks. Ergo, this logic is failure

Wizards all have DBZ powah!
Someone mentioned before that all characters were dumbed down a bit for Harry to look good. Since JK said it, they are dumb (This is using your logic of course).

Personally, I find it deplorable that some people believe that all wizards know everything about muggles, including how firearms work (Which they don't. As they are described in PoA as 'Metal Wands' for the masses, meaning they didn't know about them before) and that Nukes are radioactive. How else would they think to add more juice to their shield to save themselves from that?

Wizards don't have the reflexes to block a bullet, and even if they were wearing some sort of protective gear the shield would die after enough power. Also, a bullet of high caliburs force wouldn't suddenly stop, and since it can't go through the shield the most obvious thing that would happen is THE SHIELD WOULD MOVE either taking the person in it with them (And possible knocking off the protection) or uncover them.

People have been talking about wizards apparating in, casting some complex area damage then going without being hurt. That is impossible, seeing how uncomfortable apparation is. You would be at least a bit disorientated by the feeling of it, and the large crack would draw the attention of everyone there. So you would probably get shot while orientating yourself. Same for portkeys too.

Up to page 14 at the time of the edit. So I don't think I'm too far behind. I'm gonna keep reading and fix anything, so don't go bitching.

 

Not all wizards, but certainly more wizards than we would think from Arthur Weasley's example. See: Dumbledore reading a large range of Muggle newspapers, Kingsley being able to pass himself off as a Muggle for a week in the PM's office, the Daily Prophet article writer who did know what guns are, in order to be able to describe what they are in the newspaper.

There are two ways of looking at the debate.

The first is considering it a war between magic-users and technology-users - which one is intrinsically superior. In this debate there would be no traitors, no Muggles figuring out how to use magic themselves, and no magical people building their own technology.

The second is considering it as a more practical war between the Muggles and wizards in the context of the HP books. This scenario has far more variables, and is rather dependent on the way JKR wrote her characters. She made a vast majority of wizards stupid, and constructed her wizarding world such that the wizards in it do not use their magic to anywhere near its full potential (i.e. flying cities. Perfectly possible within the HP magic system, but nothing like it was ever done.). however, on the other hand, JKR also wrote Muggles as rather stupid in the books too, and made it so that they ignore magic and try to explain it away right up until the point where it's staring them in the face.

Personally, I prefer the first debate, as it removes the discussion from JKR's poor and unrealistic characterisation of the two societies, and makes it more about what magic and technology could do, were they both being used to their full potentials.

This is slightly misleading, because you're assuming wizards need the reflexes to dodge a bullet in the first place. What you're not factoring into the equation is the fact that, as well as the speed that a bullet travels at, it also takes a relatively significant amount of time for the brain to send a signal down to the hand, and for the hand to move a finger and pull a trigger. On the other hand, to cast a spell all a wizard needs to do is think a word - much quicker. So a wizard doesn't need to dodge a bullet, he just needs to cast quicker than a Muggle can pull a trigger (or be prepared beforehand).

Spells in HP don't really work like that though. When transfiguring something into an animal, the wizard doesn't have to know everything about the biology and anatomy etc. of that animal before they can perform the transfiguration. No, they just cast the spell to turn it into a rabbit (or whatever) and magic does the rest. Similarly, we can see that when casting a shield, the magic user doesn't need to know every specific about what they are protecting themselves against - they just cast the spell that protects them from harm, and the magic does the rest. This can be seen from the fact that shields can defend from unknown spells, and the fact that Harry's shield in DH adapted itself to block physical objects (in this case, people) when that was what was required of it.

The last few pages a big ones, and ones that I still haven't got round replying to because they're so TL;DR. Maybe I will one day, when I'm really bored.

 

I read the whole thing just now. I wasn't bored, the topic and interest level was sufficient enough for me to go through every post. I had thought this would be more a discussion on which lifestyle is better, but I should've known that all things DLP revolve around fighting (or tits and cats, but neither were present. Pity.). Plus, when I really thought about it, I think most people would want to be a wizard who grew up in both worlds, which would hardly merit 10 pages of..."discussion".

On topic, I'm pro-wizard; I think I have sufficient reasons without sounding repetitive, but if I copied something word-for-word, kindly point out the post. If it's tl;dr, then simply see #1. My reasons are (from strongest argument downward):

1. The Cessation of Wizard and Muggle worlds: It would be extremely hard for such a conflict to even exist, simply because wizards would make muggles forget that (a) wizards really exist and (b) that they wanted to fight wizards in the first place. The Imperious Curse can be thrown off, this has been proven, but memory modification has no such gaps - as Hermione demonstrated on her parents in DH. Also, the MoM had methods of observing, communicating, and (in times of crisis) infiltrating the muggle PM's office - logically, the same measures are in place at all locations that the muggle government considers vital. Do wizards need to know how to stop a bullet or ICBM? No. Do they need to craft spells to protect the wizarding world from nuclear fall-out? No. Do they need to modify their wards to prevent spy satellites from discovering various unplottable locations? Again, no. They simply have to make sure these curious or aggressive muggles don't have that kind of creative plotting while thinking about wizards or magic.

They're kinda like the Dursleys in this regard: they only pay attention/take action when the muggles talk about the 'unnaturalness' around them. Otherwise, who gives a fuck what "please-men", "intercontinental ball-stick measles", or "firelegs" are? Basically, a wizard vs. muggle conflict would result in wizards making sure that muggles forget that they know anything about the wizarding world in the first place (Again), and a slew of amendments to The International Statute of Wizarding Secrecy in regards to advancing muggle technology.

2. Muggle population advantage: This is laughable. So there are [Some-odd-number-billions] of muggles. Groovy. How many of them fight? How many of them would see combat? So start subtracting children, senior citizens, and the cost of arming those that would be fit to fight wouldn't be worth it, so count those out as well. That basically leaves the active military population and a percentage of stragglers; while still more than the wizarding population, it is by no means the dominance of 50 muggles to 1 wizard or whatever point was implied.

In regards to the wizarding world, every single magic user between the ages of, say, 13 to 600+ (The Flamels) should be considered a genuine threat. I'm defining 'threat' as the ability to disarm and incapacitate a muggle, and a wizard with at least a 3rd year education would be able to accomplish such a feat. Doubt all you want, but you'd be hard pressed to accomplish much of a defense when dealing with a tickling hex or a snake that's not your dick appearing in your pants, I shit you not.

But that'll never be necessary. See #1.

3. Wizard Blending In: Again, laughable. In fact, according to canon, that's what most muggles do when confronted with a wizard out in muggle society. Imagine for a second if you saw some old guy in a purple suit with a long auburn-white beard (Dumbledore, from HBP IIRC).

Would you think it's strange? Yes.
Would you think he's touched in the head? Yes.
Would you think he's a threat? Hell no.

And that'd be your downfall, because it's Dumbledore. Replace Dumbledore with Voldemort, and you're even more fucked; they'll just think he really, really enjoys his Halloween (see DH).

Even when the PM heard about the true cause of Amelia Bones' death, he had just assumed she was "a nice little old lady". And while I've never been to London, I'm sure that (like any other major city) there are enough oddly-dressed muggle weirdos that trying to discern wizard from muggle wouldn't be as easy as everyone thinks.

Finally, you can't compare a wizard walking around the muggles during peacetime to wizards amongst muggles during a conflict; wizards didn't go through Diagon Alley when Voldemort was rising in power (where there would be more wands to defend each other if a conflict arose), so what makes you think a bunch of wizards are going to attempt to go on enemy territory with anything less than perfect attire? Hell, between stealth observation and Pensieve memories taken from various muggles (without their knowledge - see #1), there's pretty much no place that a Pureblood wizard couldn't blend in if they needed to.

But they'll never need to: see #1.

4. Wizarding Food Supply: This is, again, laughable, and I believe someone already pointed it out. Purebloods generally see muggles as quaint, so why depend on muggles for anything, much less something as vital as food? Add to the fact that they can manipulate their food supply once it exists (Hagrid's pumpkins, as Taure pointed out), and charm the necessary tools to take care of food production (or use house elves), the idea of muggles keeping wizards from eating is idiotic. If anything, wizards could have a more profound effect on muggle food surplus if they wanted.

Unless there are wizards that simply cannot get by without their bi-weekly Big Mac and fries. My solution to this would be to see the second to last sentence of #2 (which relates to #1)

5. Aid from Magical Creatures: This argument falls in favor of the pro-muggle group, as factoring in magical creatures is more of a magic vs. muggle tech debate, not necessarily wizard vs. muggle. Wizards have a limited control over most magical beings, or a strained business arangement with others (namely goblins, gnomes, and dementors). The only creatures that would help, no questions asked, are house elves - and the average wizard is too fucking dumb to take advantage of a house elves' abilities. No matter what the debate, though, muggles still end up getting screwed over.

If muggles somehow (Divine Intervention, perhaps) managed to triumph over wizards, there wouldn't be anything keeping all of those previously secret magical creatures at bay (Because Muggles know jackshit about them - because of point #1):

-Dragons: As pointed out, see Reign of Fire for an idea of what would happen if those got loose. The Dragon vs. Jet debate, btw, is so full of fail and vagina sores that I won't even bother addressing it. Well I will, but in three words: Maneuverability, ammunition, production. One has limits, the other has none.

-Dementors: Muggles can't see them, even with infrared goggles. There's nothing about which spectrum of light they exist in, so it must be assumed that they exist in the spectrum of magic - which muggle tech can't see. And even if muggles could see them, then what - nuke'em? Demetors aren't a country that can be targeted, they're fucking freezing (so heat seeking anything = no), and physical attacks don't harm them. Nevermind that both wizards and muggles are hard-pressed to work up a defense when in a Dementor's presence: if it's not easy for a wizard, who at least knows what's happening to them, I'll be hard-pressed to find a muggle that can do much more than whimper.

-Centaurs: They do not like humans, full stop. Firenze, like Dobby, were considered borderline insane for what they did. While they're one of the more vulnerable creatures, don't expect to go camping in any forrested areas until the muggles decide to exterminate them. At this point in our history, we generally frown upon genocide.

-Trolls & Giants: Dumb, destructive, and violent. I suppose they could be bombed as well, but not before they do a whole lot of damage to muggles first.

-Nundu: Whoever came up with the idea of approaching a Nundu with hazmat suits cracked me up. Muggles don't even know they exist; without wizards to keep tabs on them, the Sahara desert would become Bermuda Triangle mk II - people fucking disappearing without a clue as to the cause.

-Goblins: The biggest threat IMO. Defeat of the wizards would leave them all of these lovely vaults full of hard currency and (most important to the goblins) information on the wandlore they've desired for so long (DH). Goblins could survive any nuclear fallout, seeing as most of their society is based underground - who's to say that they even depend on terrestrial flora/fauna for sustenance? Missiles and nukes are all fine and good, but nothing's more powerful than money. They could probably instigate a shadow takeover of muggle society with no one being the wiser - just modify a few humans as representatives and wave that cash around.

Aaannnd I'm spent.

Anything else I came up with has already been said, or refuted by point #1. So I'll try and start a new topic of discussion in the same vein of the "Would you rather" thread:

What are the pros/cons to: wizarding method of media vs. muggle media?

 

Wizarding media is more "fun" with moving pictures and so forth, the Muggle media is far, far superior in reporting. The Daily Prophet wouldn't even make it as a gossip rag in the Muggle world. I suppose magical journalists would have an advantage with stuff like apparation, invisibility cloaks etc. but they don't seem to use them.

 

Skeeter fed Batilda Bagshot with Veritaserum though, and even printed that fact shamelessly in the paper.

I think that the lack of the good, high quality wizarding media is very small population of wizards.

 

I wonder if a wizard would be allowed to make a career as a muggle reporter? It'd be just like Skeeter hiding her Animagus abilities from wizards, but as long as they were using their magic for stealth they wouldn't technically break any secrecy laws...

EDIT: @Palver: Really? I don't remember that, huh...

 

(No homo...) I love you, Justblaise, for stopping this damn thread before it became another eyesore that I would, sadly, have to include myself in.

Muggle media trumps wizarding media in general. Muggles just have more experience, because care about that shit more, as they can't apparate wherever they want and see the events in person.

In muckracking, though, wizards win hands down...

 

I never said Diagon Alley was the size or near the size of China. In fact, I only referenced Diagon Alley when I tried to explain how Diagon Alley would survive a nuclear blast.

Yes, I am quite aware that to the average wizard stupefy is a powerful curse. However I do not see how this would hinder progress in any way shape or form. Let's look at the muggle world for example.

I doubt that many people in our society know what an internal combustion engine is, except for the mechanics and engineers, along with the more knowledgeable of the populace. Yet cars, which are a very important part of our lifestyle, run on these engines. Nevertheless we get along just fine with our ignorance.

Simply because we don't need to know what this is, along with many other things. The reason being that there are people in our society whose jobs is to fix these problems, in which the average adult has no knowledge of. A mechanic will be taught things that the average person will not know. We have trained professionals for almost every subject that humanity knows of.

The average person does not need this type of expertise, for the reason that their are people already trained in these matters that actively benefit society. The same concept can apply to the magical world. The average magician probably is under the impression that the stunning spell is a very powerful one. Yet they do not need to know a more powerful curse.

All because a force is currently used for the protection of the people. Hitwizards and aurors are actively trained in combat spells to protect the populace. I do indeed realize that muggles have colleges and universities to benefit them for each subject.

It is very possible that wizarding universities exist too outside of the British Isles. Either way, we are however given an indication in Canon as to what adults learn after Hogwarts. In Canon, Bill is said to have been working at Gringotts as a curse-breaker. As far as we are aware, Hogwarts does not teach about that particular subject.

In any case, I am sure Gringotts however would need highly trained curse-breakers, which I heavily doubt could be achieved from an education at Hogwarts. From what we have seen so far, education after Hogwarts seems to consist of a Mentor-Apprentice relationship. Or it is possible the ministry or private companies pass on their knowledge and secrets to their employers.

Either way we know that there are occupations for nearly every wizarding role. Magic does not have to be more powerful. We as "muggles" are quite puny in physical power, and yet we have achieved so much. Through sophisticated thinking and the assignment of individual roles for specific jobs, I am sure that the wizarding world could advance to the stage of supremacy.

From what we have seen so far from Canon, this does actually seem to be true. There are numerous occupations for the individual witch or wizard, which I am sure each require additional training.

In this case, it would not be hard to imagine a more advanced world than we have been given the impression of. The wizarding world consists of healers, curse-breakers, ward-constructors, aurors, quidditch players, potion brewers, shop-owners, and numerous other jobs. It would definitely not be a stretch as to say that other jobs exist.

Architects would play a prominent role in the wizarding lifestyle. Like I said, the fact that shops in Diagon Alley are described as dingy looking, frankly astounds me. St. Mungo's apparently a prominent hospital is also described as a second-hand place.

The hospital as stated in the lexicon, is largely made of wood, filled with rickety wooden chairs and outdated copies of witches weekly. The reception area also doubles as an emergency waiting room. When we look at the long lines that were indicated in Canon we can see that this shows overcrowding.

The first floor is were Arthur Weasley was held for his snake bite. It is described as small and dingy, and has only one window. Now I don't want you to misjudge me, but given the impression we have largely received from the wizarding world. The fact that they can largely fix anything. Then yes I think this is a big problem.

The staff at the hospital has obviously never heard of expansion charms, and the numerous other charms that would make life easier at the hospital. Given what we have seen so far from the wizarding world; the fact that every person seems to have a specific occupation.

I would think that it would indeed be economically feasible for the wizarding world to have skilled architects. Rowling seems to have neglected this aspect in her world. The architects would certainly help the wizarding world grow and prosper. I am certain that most wizards would want a hired low cost builder to help them build homes.

Most homes seem to be built out of wood, and have no more space, indeed less luxury than a regular muggle home. The fact that most wizards would want a builder would further drive down the costs of hiring an architect. From this simple job, the one of an architect, the wizarding world would change.

From our descriptions of the world so far, we have come upon a mostly medieval style of life. Yet this makes absolutely no sense when we look more closely. There is indeed no excuse for the reason of the Weasley family poverty. Other than J.K’s own ignorance. Or perhaps the fact that she wished to draw sympathy through her books over the plight of the Weasley’s, and also display Harry’s trust and friendship on display for his close relationship with the family.

Either way, wizards are so far ahead of the muggles in some aspects, and yet so far behind in others. They have a society similar to the muggles in terms of economics. With a currency and numerous jobs to support the populace. One would think that with the inclusion of magic the world would be a far greater place. No, the fact that magic is seemingly downplayed would not diminish this aspect. As I said, despite that fact that most wizards are not powerful in terms of magic. Individual occupations with their own branch of magic exists.

We know that there are numerous spells required and learned for different jobs. So while the average wizard may not know the exciting spells, which would greatly benefit their society. The workforce that deals with these problems would indeed know. This concept applies to our world too.

Given the reasons I have stated above, that of the numerous jobs wizards can hold. The only logical conclusion I can come up with for some of the missing things in a wizard’s life, would be that this ignorance was all a plot hole. Or simply Rowling wanted to create a dazzling fantasy world, but failed when she introduced the concept of a vast society. For the simple reason that a society that she created on her scale with the 300,000 wizards in existence, should be far more advanced then depicted in Canon.




Stated in a another thread, we know that there are about 300,000 magical people in the world. Not including goblins, house-elves etc. Approximately 3000 exist on the British isles. This is 1% of the worlds population. Clearly the United Kingdom is not all there is to the wizarding world.

I also doubt that a large percentage of wizards would congregate in India and China, as in the muggle world. Not when they have easy means of transportation to leave (apparition, floo network, portkeys, or broomstick travel). Though I do not dispute the fact that I could be wrong in this aspect.

If a large part of the magical population is located in Asia, then I would assume it would be quite a rich place. Unlike the muggle world where India and China remain quite poor on the GDP per capita scale. This would be so due to the fact of the simple spells needed to survive in life could be easily learned. Either the United Kingdom plays a prominent part of the wizarding world, or the superpowers are located elsewhere.

As the wizards in Britain play a small role population wise compared to the rest of the world. I would assume that in order to maintain a dominant role on wizarding society, if it indeed does, it must have remained a prominent empire. Which the advanced transportation and communication of the wizards, would have certainly allowed the British, and other world empires to maintain a more dominant hold on their colonies.

The main reason the 13 colonies rebelled was due to the vast distance that separated them from the mother country. This caused much friction and frustration between the two continents. Which ultimately led to the bout over the taxation without representation, which of course resulted in American independence. Seeing the success of the American Revolution many countries also followed into their footsteps.

However, the distance would not have mattered that greatly due to broom travel, and for the more experienced magician apparition. Nevertheless, it becomes apparent that the wizarding world is far greater than just Britain.

On the concept of cities. I agree that at least in the British Isles most wizards do not inhabit cities. As we read through the series it becomes apparent that most live in the countryside in their manor houses. The Malfoy’s even the dirt poor Weasley’s all live in that area. It seems that the only major financial center of Great Britain, Diagon alley, is just that, a marketplace. This would in fact aid wizards in the fight against muggles, which I will address later in my post.

However when I look at how the wizarding world should have been I realize that they could far outclass muggles. Though yes I do believe that wizards would outclass muggles in terms of warfare, even as they were written in the series.

Let’s say a muggle-born gives the location of Diagon alley to muggle officials. What then? What could the muggles do? I would think that with help from a muggle born they might be able to circumvent the muggle repelling charms and enter the leaky cauldron. They could catch the wizards drinking the local ale off guard.

But what happens then? The entrance to Diagon Alley would probably be quickly sealed as in the case of an emergency. The hitwizards and aurors would be called and they would apparate in. I am sure that with their advanced training they would know to put up shields. Which has been disputed that a bullet cannot penetrate a shield.

After the aftermath, where a few wizards would have died, possibly a few aurors too who might not have had a strong enough shield, or either did not put one up in time. After that the wizarding government would strike back. The archway would be sealed up with no doubt numerous concealing charms placed on the location, so as to confound the muggles.

Heavier wards would be put up. The only way in would be through side-along apparition with a muggle-born. Where even then they would be quickly taken out by the wards, or the goblins and hitwizards, as I assume muggles could only travel into the alley in small numbers. An assault through the use of missiles and guns from fighter jets could easily be foiled too. Read my earlier post about my theory regarding how the wards would survive a nuclear blast.

Even if they could not, the destruction of Diagon Alley would not have a significant impact on wizarding society. Most wizards live in the countryside. If an economic center like Diagon Alley should fall then the impact would be minor. With charms, wizards I am sure would be quick to create another city hidden elsewhere, spurred on by the economic demand of the merchants who wish to deliver their goods.

Nevertheless, wards I am sure would be more than capable of dealing with cruise missiles. However, the constant assault of heavy bombardment delivered from above would certainly have to weaken them, and they probably indeed would later collapse.

Which does bring me to my next topic. Many people also point out that the muggle world would surely be able to adapt to the changes. They would find out through scientific testing all about magic and would most definitely develop ways to fight against it. However, do you not think the wizarding world would adapt too? I am sure that information about muggles would be in high demand.

Through interrogation of captured muggles easily acquired, or the extensive network of spies, wizards would find out quite a bit about muggles. There does exist however a very important piece of information that they could recover about the muggle world.

That of their absolute addiction to oil. Without oil, the muggle economy would be severely crippled. Wizards would quickly send in strike forces consisting of trained aurors to take out the oil tankers, depots, pipelines, refineries, and reserves. Anything they can get their hands on would be incinerated.

The muggle militaries and global economy would be severely crippled. Morale would be at an all time low. Mainly due to the fact that muggles largely fight invisible, and to their minds, indestructible enemies.

I am sure dementors would also play a large role. Dementors would severely lower the morale of the already depressed soldiers. While thermal goggles could be used to detect dementors. It would only serve as a warning. There is quite little muggles can do to combat the effects of dementors, except the use of fire, which is quite limited to it’s effects. I am sorry to say, but you are delusional if you believe anti-depression pills will prevent a dementor from sucking out your soul.

In war I am sure the wizards would not mind the action of subjecting muggles under the imperius curse. The muggle leaders would be quickly put under it. They would have nowhere to hide. With revealing charms the muggle leaders in hiding would be quickly located. Where disillusioned aurors would easily capture.

How could the bodyguards protect their leader when they don’t know who is throwing spells at them? How can they protect the prime minister when their bullets would bounce off the erected shields with little to no impact? They would be quickly stunned, and the hostage could be easily bound and taken out through the use of a portkey. Leaders under the imperius curse could certainly delay the muggle response to wizard attack.

Many are also under the impression that a war between muggles and wizards would be played out as an individual versus an individual. Many point out that a muggle with a gun who ambushed a wizard could easily take him out. This is indeed a true statement. I do not deny the fact that magic works through a very slow, delayed process. The average wizard could not react in time to stop a bullet.

Yet a war between the wizards and muggles will not be fought individually. Most wizards would be safe hidden in the countryside within the protection of their homes. Or perhaps in places like Hogsmeade, which I am sure would be under heavy protection. No one would be outside waiting for muggle soldiers to pick him or her off, especially since there appears to be a war going on.

Yes, the average muggle equipped with a gun could indeed take out the average wizard. However I will stress my point again by adding that this does not matter at all. As shown earlier in my post, the wizarding world functions as a society. They fight like a society. They work like a society. The fact that when ambushed wizards could be taken out by muggles doesn’t matter. Since trained wizards cannot be ambushed.

Not when they have revealing charms to indicate whether anyone is nearby. Not when they have wards to protect their homes. I am also quite sure that Aurors never go into combat without shields put up, especially since they go through rigorous tough training. It is the wizard expertise in guerrilla warfare that will allow them to win the war. The muggle’s dependence on oil, their susceptibility to the Imperius curse, and their low morale that will allow the wizards to end triumphantly.

I am afraid to say that this is a war muggles cannot win through nuclear power either. Due to the higher resistance wizards have against physical damage, their wards, and the general fact that many are dispersed around the countryside. Should a nuclear holocaust occur where nearly all muggle life is terminated. I am more than sure that despite suffering heavy losses the wizards would still remain standing. From what we have gathered wizards can cure nearly anything. Which will certainly aid them when they encounter the effects of radiation sickness. For food they could easily create sealed greenhouses and regulate the oxygen and temperature level with charms. Allowing plants and animals to prosper despite the harsh environment waiting outside.

Another point brought up is the fact that many point out to the Middle Ages. Where it is believed that wizards were persecuted by muggles and forced into hiding. It is stated in Canon that muggles were largely unsuccessful in capturing wizards, and when they did the use of the flame-freezing charm certainly helped out the wizards quite a but.

We also have to question whether most wizards at the time even had wands due to the economic conditions. If they did indeed have a focus to their magic, then we need to take into account their lack of education. While Hogwarts was in existence at the time, I doubt its gates were open to the common plebian.


As the average wizard in the 1990’s is quite limited in regards to spell power, despite an advanced education. Means we have to take into account just how much magic the common wizard knew in the medieval ages. Which could have made the task of eliminating all muggles at the time a daunting one indeed. Thus, in order to escape persecution, wizards settled down and segregated themselves from the muggle society. A much more civilized choice than declaring war on the muggles.

I also apologize for writing such a long reply. If it's tl;dr.