This has been touched on before, but we've never had a thread explicitly for it, so I thought I'd start one as we were discussing it in IRC.

Wizards and Muggles, in the Harry Potter universe, which is superior?

Mainly we are talking about a fair one on one hypothetical fight between a wizard and a muggle, armed with a wand and a pistol, each having equal masteries of their own arts.

But we can also talk more generally as well.

As far as my point of view goes, the wizard will always win (in this situation; forget ideas about ambushes etc). This is for several reasons:

1. There is still some doubt over whether Muggle technology is able to hurt a wizard. Remember Hagrid in PS/SS: "A car crash? Kill Lily and James? Impossible!".

2. A skilled wizard with a wand is faster than a skilled muggle with a gun. All the wizard has to do is think the word Impervious and he becomes unable to be hit by physical objects. The time it takes to think this word will be much shorter than the time it takes to pull the trigger of a gun.

3. A wizard's body is superior to a Muggle's body. Even discounting the age bonus that a wizard receives, a wizard is faster than a Muggle. Think Dumbledore in HBP in the Dursley's living room: he pulled his wand from his sleeve faster than the eye could follow, even at his age.

4. Once the advantage of the gun is removed by the Impenetrable spell, magic is far superior and will incapacitate the muggle in no time, without the Muggle having any defence.

Now, time for your thoughts.

Edit: Could an admin/mod edit the poll to add a third option (Neutral)?

 

I have to agree on all those points, and add if there is a physical shield, I've seen no mention that the wand _must_ be pointed exactly at the muggle to defend... he might be able to cast the shield with a flick of the wand.

 

I also mentioned apparition in the IRC, that magic is near, if not, instant. All a wizard would need to do is apparate behind his target and stun/kill.

Now, on the same skill level when neither has any skill to speak of, a muggle would win. How hard is it to point and shoot as opposed to pulling some magical word out of your ass and figuring out how to use it?

 

I agree with those who say Wizards would triumph over Muggles...this is because a Wizard would have so many more advantages over the muggle - Legilimency, Transfiguration, Apparation (to name a few)

Sure as someone (can't remember who) said on IRC, a Wizard would have to think of the incantaion whilst the muggle would just have to pull the trigger, but, thinking an incantaion wouldn't take as long reaching for the gun, aiming and pulling the trigger. The wizard would just have to think the incantation and colaborate it with a flick of the wand - we can say bye-bye to the muggle...

Just my opinion
Anna

 

It is true that a wizard can win over a muggle any day, but, you guys are looking at the persons power instead of the skills one might possess on the muggle side.

You guys remember the fic "Art of War". The man was a martial artist and made the order look like childs play. The aurors knew they were far superior but the muggle man had the elements of suprise with him. Wizards tend to underestimate the muggles way too much.

 

That includes limbs. Therefore it doesn't matter how much martial arts you can do if you can't actually touch the guy you're trying to attack.

 

Where is it said that the Impervius spell makes one impenetrable to all physical objects?

From the Lexicon:

One of the things that will always bug me about Harry Potter is the whole "muggles are useless" scenario.

I know the books are focused on an escapist fantasy into the magical Hogwarts world, and about being different from everyone else, and how people without imagination are Hollow Men, but... I think the series would be horribly entertaining with the addition of one effect Muggle character. I know it would ruin a lot of the point Rowling is trying to present us with, but it would be so much... fun to give some of the more 'muggles are stupid' characters in Harry Potter a nice, pro-Muggle shock.

Think about it. The Death Eaters are running around throwing zombies at people, for crying out loud. If there's one thing we Muggles can deal with, its zombies. Especially ones that are afraid of fire. And I'm sorry, but the ability to kill thirteen people with one curse is insignificant next to the power of the for---[cough cough] modern technology. You got giants? Great. We've got rocket launchers. You've got a killing curse? We've got nukes. You've got wands? Great. Go watch Potter Puppet Pals. See how far wands will get you. You've got dementors? Great. We've got television. Let's see whose soul rots first.

 

In terms of skill, the wizard would beat the muggle hands down. But think of that neat muggle invention called a nuclear bomb. Ooooo! One push of a button and, well, I don't think that wizard would have much to worry about after that.

 

Oujou, the thing about that is, that a wizard can learn martial arts as well, whereas a muggle cannot learn magic.

If the muggle and wizarding worlds were to get into a conflict, I honestly think that despite suitable numbers muggles would loose. Badly. Wizards can learn anything and do anything that muggles can, muggles cannot learn or do magic. Nuclear warheads do shit when the enemy is in the same piece of land as you. Guns do shit when the enemy can go invisible, can move miles in an instant, can vanish your gun with a though, can create his own gun with a thought.

We haven't seen the extent of magic, but it is fair to assume that wizards could create massive, but contained, explosions.

 

If we're talking about a wild west style duel, take ten steps, turn, and shoot, I reckon it would be luck of the draw really, and depending on how much more evolution favoured wizards in terms of being more resilient, I'd say say a Muggle would win simply by dint of bullets being faster than AKs. Now in a more lengthy match, it would probably come out with a wizard on top for all the reasons everyone's already stated. Magic can do pretty much anything, after all, whereas guns can't.

 

"Impervious" is the incantation to the Impenetrable charm, the charm that Mrs. Weasley put on the Kitchen door of Number 12. Grimmauld Place (spelling?), which repelled the dung bombs away from the door. It is a spell that repels physical objects. Bullets are a physical object. Therefore, the Impenetrable spell repels bullets, protecting the object, or person, it is cast upon from bullets.

As for Rocket Launchers and Nuclear Weapons, neither of these will work in a magical atmosphere as they rely on electrical circuits to fire and explode. As for TV, Dementor's suck the soul at a far faster speed, and at a much more serious level.

In terms of a Muggle vs. magical war, the Wizards would obviously win. Muggles may have nuclear weapons, but all it would take would be to put the people in charge of those weapons under the Imperius curse and the weapons are then under the wizards control.

 

But wizards are by nature, not as imaginative, or creative, or resourceful as muggles mentally. The people of magic don't really think critically as they have magic as a failsafe. Where they would trump a muggle on a fair fight. If this were a war, one army against the other. I think the muggle have a bit of a chance.

 

I don't know. If you were born and raised with magic then it would be normal, and no more a failsafe than knowing we have computers. We still have just as many reasons to think creatively and resourcefully, if not more, knowing that we can calculate complex equations or launch nuclear missiles through a machine.

 

Once you think about it, unless the wizard had some known weakness that could be used against him, well the Muggle would be bascially screwed with no chance of winning. Plus, a wizard could play so many tricks on a Muggle without even really trying hard. The only way that a human could possibly win would be doing something clever like pretending to die or telling them they have a family or something.

 

A) Where is it stated that thatis the incantation for that charm?

Offhand, it doesn't seem something to be used in humans.

As for rocket launchers:
A) Not necesarily, some explode on impact;
B) There are very few highly magically charged areas. My guess is only Diagon Alley and Hogwarts.
C) Nuclear weapons explode far above the ground, where there wouldn't be any magical intereference anyways.

As for the imperius, think of the type of people who manage nuke-controls. Army personnel. Certainly not weak-willed.

And anyways, all humans need is some muslim extremists and explosive jackets to decapitate wizard leadership. Bin Laden would take out Voldie, no time. *hides from the backlash*

 

Even if impervious is not the incantation to the Impenetrable, or Imperturbable, charm, then it doesn't change the fact that those charms exist, and are capable of repelling physical objects. It is highly likely that the two charms are one and the same though, as they have exactly the same effect: the repelling of physical objects.

Even the Latin root is a clue.

Notice it is not, "not letting rain, or water, through", but "not letting things through". That implies that it is used for more than just rain, and as it has the same effect of Mrs. Weasley's Imperturbable charm, it is likely they are the same.

As for this:

I disagree. There is nothing to say that it cannot be used on humans, and so until we are given proof that it cannot, we must assume that it can. Even if, and this is a big "if", that charm doesn't work on humans, it is proof that it is possible, easy even, to repel physical objects using a charm, and if that particular one doesn't work on humans (which there is no evidence to suggest) then there will be another one that does.

Again, you are mistaking the fanon for the canon here. We have no proof at all that there is anything called "magical charged areas". It might be that the mere presence of magic, a single spell, is enough to put off Muggle electronics.

Even if you are correct in your assumption that it is only in "highly magically charged areas" that nuclear weapons work, then this still covers every single place that you could possibly bomb if you wanted to bomb wizards: Hogwarts, Diagon Alley, The MoM, and Azkaban. These are the only 4 wizarding locations in Britain that we know of, and all of them are what you would call "highly magically charged areas", if such a thing exists.

No Muggle, no matter how strong willed, could resist the Imperius. It is a magic spell. Just as a Muggle could never learn Occlumency, a Muggle could also never resist a mind spell.

And that's just random.

 

If it were a war between the two, i would really hate to say is that wizards would win. However, muggles have an increadible chance because of there sheer numbers and there fear of magic, since it is unknown. That fear can be used as a weapon to create weapons to counter magic.

If they have a way to counter magic, then the wizards would get there ass spanked.

 

This reminds me of the object that Dumbledore used in the very first book to extinguish the streetlamps on Privet Drive. Who is to say that there is not anoter device created by wizards that could disrupt electrical fields over a wide area?

 

I vote Wizards and I see no votes for muggles. If you want a fantastic explanation go read Taliath's fic In Light Of Silver Memories (title?).

Fanon and Canon have nothing to do with his explanation. It is epic.

Blue, muggles have such a device that expels EMP and disrupts everything that runs on microprocessor chips. All teh wizards have to do is use their weapon against them.