That's cool. No I mean really cool because I was just pulling those out of my arse and just conjecturing based on what I thought was likely to be probable if someone were to imagine a Wizarding America.

The Quidditch (named but not the same game) was a joke based on the way we yanks have made complete asses out of ourselves with 'American football' vs 'soccer' and the Quidditch (but called something else) was an obvious play on the way cricket and Baseball are somehow related to each other.

The whole dodo bird thing was just a joke based on how quickly it was hunted to death..maybe there was a reason for that (besides the bird being criminally stupid I mean).

Nice to see that my ideas had some reality to them!

--bornagainpenguin

 

The USA is a lot more prude than Europe about sex. I've lived in both area's for significant amounts of time, and Americans as a society are much less liberated than their European counterparts. Hell, half of the ads I saw in small-town RURAL Italy would be classified as "indecent" and be fined by the FCC over here.

Now, America's massive case of sexual frustration (pun intended) can be traced back to several causes:

#1. Our original colonists... Puritans, not the most sexually liberated people. Puritans their creed was simple, "If it feels good, YOUR DOING SOMETHING WRONG!". However their religion has since died out, lthough their culture is still very strong in Modern Day New England.

#2. The hyper-Calvinist relgious sects in the South/mid-west/rural N/S border states. In case you can't tell, I tend to use these poor bastards as my favorite whipping boys. But in this case as well as the last one they genuinely ARE responsible for America's prude society.

#3. Ok so I have covered the middle and the eastern part of the country, but what about the west? Simple... One word, MORMONS! Or as they prefer to be called "Members of the Church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day Saints."

Simply put, our country has always been pretty conservative... Even during times of great liberal change (Rev. War, Const. Conv. Civ. War, Progressive Era 1890-1914, FDR Years, and 1960's-70's counter-culture) there has always been a very healthy and very strong religious conservative movement.

Now onto Racism:

ip82, I refuse to type N***** without the asterisk's not only because of the history of the word, but because of the other meanings it carries with it. In America, race has been a MAJOR issue in our politics since our Constitutional Convention when slaves were decided to count as 3/5ths of a person for census purposes. The mini-war fought in Kansas when popular sovreignty was introduced, and the civil war that followed Lincoln's election demonstrate this effectively. As did many of Henry Clay's compromises.

Later on racism was such a major issue that in the South blacks were free in name only. The resulting civil rights movement is still in the process of being resolved today. Hell everytime a white cop shoots a black person, the first question the media asks is "Is there going to be a riot?". I may write stories that might be a bit lewd, but there are some area's that even I will tread carefully around; race is one of them.

 

Gio, I can't speak from a rural perspective, I'm in NY and always have been, but I have never seen the majority act in the way you say. A&F advertisements, talk shows, sitcoms, music... we are surrounded constantly by sexually saturated media, ads, etc. I won't deny the FCC or politicos might be uptight at times, and even the Bible belt hardcores, but most the country is not prude. Will & Grace, South Park, Farelly Brother movies, Eminem, Ludicris, Grand Theft Auto (for the prostitutes)... these things couldn't be as popular and mainstream as they are in a prude nation. I admit we might not have nipples plastered all over every other ad, but I think thats a pretty minor thing. I agree that some Americans are prude, but you'd be lying if you said no Brits (or Italians, etc.) were as well. Look what they did to poor Benny Hill for christsakes. Poor Benny... All nations have conservatives, we aren't special in that respect. I'm not saying there is no degree of difference, I'm just saying the difference is vastly overstated by many, and its grating. Is this making any sense?

 

Your argument is pretty valid, except for one thing... All of those things have been boycotted, picketed, and threatened with (or in some cases recieved) fines to within inches of their lives.

Look just do yourself a favor and drive to West Virginia. Ask 10 people if they watch Will and Grace.

Howard Stern... Need I say more?

We might be surrounded by sex appeal ads/shows... But honestly a lot of that shit is tame compared to Europe. In America there is a stigma about sex and nudity amongst the general population that doesn't exist and Europe. It might not exist on this forum because the majority of the members (based soley on what is in the where do you stand thread) are at least center if not center-left.

Spend 6 months living in Europe, and you will understand what I mean.

Am I making sense?No, really I wanna know, I am sleep deprived... Meh I will clean up this post later. Why do I always feed the trolls?

 

Well, that was exactly my point - race is a huge issue in US. The way I see it, there are two things you can't joke about in US today - race is one thing and patriotism/terrorists the other. And both of these are related to current issues the country is dealing with.

Anyway, that was why I said race would be one of the main aspects of wizarding US (which was the topic here... WAS at least )... the same way as the old aristocrats versus the new blood is an issue that JKR had used to create her version of magical Britain.

 

First, if you think I'm a troll, you shouldn't respond. Second, West Virginia isn't America, its West Virginia. Third, boycotts do not represent the majority. In most cases they are *tiny* minorities in fact. The Janet Jackson 'controversy' for example - it was created by an overreactive media who will sensationalize anything (just like the country we're comparing to here), and a dozen or so ultra conservatives who flooded the FCC with calls (they were all members of some watchdog group, I forget). This is a typical example of the 'controversy' over all the things I listed, and clearly does not reflect on the majority of Americans, or their prudishness. Now, we might not have fat naked Germans in S&M gear eating feces, but the nation as a whole is not much pruder than any other Western nation. If you lived in London and came to NYC, you would not see any noticable differences in regards to attitudes on sex. As mentioned, you might eventually notice nipples conveiniently absent from ads (which is the only example anyone ever gives as proof of our prusishness). In fact, in NY women can walk around topless in places where men can. I can't speak for WV, but WV doesn't speak for America either.

 

All this argumnet depends on one thing: the author. One person has a different view to another. Therefore the honest answer to that question is it depends on the author and not the American government.

Hogwarts isn't an accurate representation of our schools. The Ministry's policies isn't an accurate representation of British government. Child abuse, ethnic cleansing, disabled and racial hatred isn't tolerateed. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, it just stays underground and behind closed doors. Sorry if some of you think that Britain is an unsanitary, backward Oliver Twist-like place because it isn't. It's like me looking at people like Paris Hilton and saying "all Americans are dumbasses". It simply isn't true.

The Harry Potter world isn't an accurate representation of England just like an American version wouldn't be an accurate representation of America. It all depends on the author.

 

Okay then MS. Thank you. Didn't know that. I'm your basic American, has never really lived anywhere else but America. In college, I'm definetly studying abroad...

 

Adding onto what Gio said, the main eason those things managed to stick around for a bit, is the simple fact of shock value.

Remove Em, Luda from this list, they don't do shock value so much as simple observation. Luda's not remotely shocking, Eminem is, but hell he writes about his life.

Will and Grace made it big for the same reason Queer eye did, there's not really and gay oriented shows on TV. Even still, the gay aspect of W&G was offscrene 90%+ of the time. The show was mostly references and jokes about being gay, not dudes making out.

Farelly Brothers should burn in hell for a few things they did, they crossed the line over shock value. South park isn't as bad, but they get stupid at times.

GTA = a fun game. Not even close to shocking. You've been able to kill ppl in online games for years. No picking up a prositute, but hell that was something a great majority of folks didn't know you could do, and all it showed was the car bouncing. Hot coffee was stupid, but they at least disabled it and removed any info on how to get it show in the retail games, even if they didn't remove the code.

 

Heh... not really--its perfectly fine to mock race and make racist jokes in America along with using the word #@%& just so long as you happen to have the proper shade of melanin. Only if your skin is white, then your behavior will be considered 'not acceptable.'

And it is perfectly alright to mock terrorism, provided your name is Jon Stewart and people think you have a point to make (besides earning money).

I agree, although to be honest I'd imagined it would also have various mixed breeds here as well. Our politics and racial stupidity aside there is a reason this country has been called the melting pot. One thing I'd like to suggest, all things being equal and one that just hit me is what if the Mormons were Wizards and Witches? After all as a wizard or a witch you'd be much more capable of protecting yourself I'd think, and the wilderness wouldn't have been quite as scary as the thought of a mob with guns. Not to mention the fact that Salt Lake City is just perfectly situated on that mountain....

--bornagainpenguin (rambling on)

 

Damian. You wouldn't notice much diffference between London and New York on the surface level, but below the surface you would, its the subtle things that make the gap so big.

If I were to scream PENIS! (In Itallian) at the top of my lungs in the middle of a crowded Roman subway car I would get a few funny looks, but nothing serious... In the USA I would have at least several people yelling at me and if there was a cop I would be arrested and fined for either public indecency or disorderly conduct.

Also like Middy said, those people stay around because of their shock value. They shock us because we are prude, thats why we pay to hear about midgets fucking in churches on Howard Stern. Its why Jjerry Springer is still on the air. And finally it is why advertisers are constantly "pushing the envelope." With what they put in their ads.

Like Middy said how many times have you seen Will make out with a guy on Will and Grace? Maybe 1. Maybe. Compared to Grace (every 4th episode). Our society has a major hangup about sexuality. Thats why in this country a MAJORITY supported an amendment BANNING gay marraige. Its why when Kurt Cobain french-kissed his guitarist on SNL 14 years ago society flipped out.

As for why I respond?

Someone needs to feed trolls... They provide valuable entertainment.

 

See... that's just the thing that makes me think you don't know what you're talking about. I've heard much, much worse things yelled, and I've never seen someone arrested for that. You might know Rome, and you might have a few uber conservative small towns I've never heard of down pat, but in most of America you could run around yelling 'I'm a hairy cunt!' and you would not get more than, as you said, some funny looks. Cops... well, a cop might yell at you, but they wouldn't arrest you unless they were pricks. We have pretty airtight freedom of speech laws, and the ACLU would be right on the case to defend someone in the event they were arrested. I think you've got some sort of 1950's view of America as a whole that doesn't mesh with the reality (of the majority).

So when Italians do it, its because its no big deal, when Americans do it its because its prude? Gio, Mid.. I'm not seeing it, I must admit. It sounds like you're speaking for a whole lot of people on matters of their motivation, something they themselves might not even be fully able to explain... thats quite a bit of liberty to be taking. I mean, I take that liberty all the time, but... I'm a prick.

So you're saying no one in Europe dislikes gays or is bothered by them? I'm going to have to call BS on that. We had same sex marriage and gays in the military before Britain (the country we are directly comparing to, if you recall). And the amendment supported was banning gay marriage, not all gay unions and is not indicitive of hating gays, its a belief in preserving traditional marriage. Whether you think thats dumb or not is beside the point, what is the point is that it has nothing to do with prudishness. There is no stereotypical redneck hunter yelling 'Gays in my country? Never! *growl!*' or women fainting in shock. Will & Grace and Queer Eye are the most popular of a huge list of gay shows. There are gays on pretty much everything these days. The fact that the producers of W&G don't over do it by having dudes making out every two minutes isnt very convincing evidence.

I wonder what your definition of a troll is... well, I'm not a troll, and if you direspect me or my opinion enough to use such a childish label, please don't 'feed' me. Even if you find it entertaining. I try to be as honest and upfront as I can because I hate hypocrites who talk out both sides of their face, and if that makes me a troll in your eyes, thats fine, I can deal with it, but I certainly would rather you didn't carry on almost as if you cared what I thought then.

 

Ofcourse America is so perfect! You have no racism (KKK), no drug dealrers every corner, you have free health insurance... should i go on? America is too busy meddling in other countries affairs, that it's inaffairs are in a state of chaos, while the UK, aside from a sideline article every few weeks doesn't make it into other countries papers.
I'm not trying to say UK is perfect,truth is far from that, but don't look at the USA as the epitom of perfectness.

 

I live currently in Scotland, and as much as i love america, and want to live there when im older, the drinking age rule, corrupt politicians and no free health care, not saying Britain is better, but i do enjoy living here, and will miss it, but theres just something about ameica, it jst feels a bit more epic than lil old Britain

 

Who said the thing about the freedom of speech laws? That's not true! Any person that is in highschool or under cannot wear things that say "FUCK!" and stuff. There is hardly freedom of speech in places like schools when under 18.

 

When you walk into school your freedom of speech right is cut in half...your not there to express your self..your there to learn.

 

True... it still sucks anyways.

 

Who is that directed at? If its me, I don't think America is even close to perfect, in fact I hate it. What I hate more is self delusion though, so I won't pretend America is vastly more sexually prude than the UK like some people act like, nor would I for instanse pretend Britain is vastly more offended by fantasy violence like the perception is. These are minor semantical differences, and I intend to defend them as such.

If you weren't talking to me of course... eh... ignore what I said. I'm sure most people will anyway.

 

Damian, I hope these clarifications are helpful to you.

On Europe and Gay Marraige, I never said that there was universal acceptance, I said that there was majority acceptance whereas in America it is minority acceptance. Go visit Amsterdam my friend.

As for indecency; if I were at a crowded beach here with one of my female friends and she took her top off then proceeded to go walking with me, it would take less than 10 minutes before beach patrol would detain her for indecent exposure. And in case your wondering, yes I am speaking from first-hand experience. In Europe, no one would care.

Alright Freedom of Speech Laws? On the surface, yes. Read through the past 5 years of Supreme Court dockets, or look at the activities of Homeland Security, and you'll see that they are only good on the surface.

Your right, when Italians do it its no big deal, because their media doesn't srop everything to cover it, their people simply just don't care. They might stop for 5/10ths of a second and say "puffo bastardo's" or something after seeing some guys getting it on at a nude beach, but they are much more laid back about sexuality over there. As for speaking to matters of motivation, Howard Stern has gone on the fucking RECORD saying he does his show for 2 reasons:

#1. The Money.
#2. To Piss People Off.

So how am I taking liberties with Stern?

As for the advertisers, sex sells. Go to ANY Public Relations 101 class and if you don't cover it in the first week or have it on the syllabus then I will eat my laptop. Jerry Springer has also gone on the record saying he does his show to shock people. I fail to see how my statement took any liberties, but then again to someone who thinks that Americans are more sexually liberated than Europeans despite the fact that one nipple resulted in a month-long media frenzy, and millions in FCC fines, I suppose thats the only counter argument that is even possible.

I'm speaking for no one, just repeating what they have already gone on the record saying.

And if you want my definition of troll, it's pretty standard.

Troll: Someone who says something inflammatory just to annoy the members of a board, even after being proven wrong by mountains of empirical evidence.

Reason to Feed: I like to argue, and trolls provide me with laughs. They also provide me valuable insight into the minds of neocons everywhere (even if they themselves are not neocons); because like Neocons like trolls are impervious to reason, logic, and frequently brand those they argue against as "hypocrits" when in need of an escape route from the corner that their opponent, the "anti-troll" has backed them into.