Answer's basically yeah.

 

My objections to the pledge of alleigence.

I Pledge Allegeince to the Flag. In my opinion the flag no longer stands for what it once did.

Of the United States of America. I am a huge proponent of States Rights, so I object to the increased level of our federal government

And to the Republic for which it stands I don;t particularly like this republic.

One Nation Under God #1. I don't see us as one nation, I see us as one class elite nobility exploiting the bourgeoise and proletariat. #2. I don't believe myself to be under God, I believe myself to be equal to it or above it, because God (by my Definition) is the aggregate of human morality... Meaning that God itself is inherently immoral. I am not, I am amoral, there is a difference. However my real objection to the phrase is that it was put in by Eisenhower to show that we were a faith based country, as opposed to the USSR, I have better things to be doing with my time than fighting a Cold War that was won when I was 4. I am not a faith oriented person either, so I object to that as well.

Indivisible Yeah... Except for Segregation, Civil War, and a Country that is extremely polarized at the moment.

With liberty and Justice for all A statement like that is kind of broad, and wholly incorrect.

Also, I object to the flag itself being beatified. The soldiers died for our freedom, and the flag no longer symbolizes that. If you want a symbol of your freedom, wake up in the morning and say "I love waking up knowing that I wont be imprisoned for something I say (although that might not be the case for much longer)". Don't worship a flag which is used by the leaders in government to make the sheep follow along like dumb cattle driven to the slaughter house.

props to anyone who recognizes the literary allusion... But no props to Brits, Irish, or Scots... You guys have known that poem since you were born.

 

The original pledge is as follows: "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all"

 

Lol! I myself am more of a functionalist than a marxist....[much more of a functionalist]........I think life is much simpler than made out to be...but personally I have no problems with the pledge....something can only get you riled up if you let it...so just don't!!!

Why are you a huge proponent of State's rights[just curious]?

p.s. remember when postign a reply to comment on any grammatical mistakes I may have made[it will only help]!

 

This has proven to be intersting debate. How a simple thought about what the book would be like if it was written by american. Though it has given me an insight into the precieved national idenities of the U.S. and the U.K.

Coming from Canada, I find Giovanni's problems with pledge intersting. Canada has long defined itself by what is not American. We lack a national identiy.

New-arrivals have often found a Canadian connection by singing the athem. However it contains many refences to the Christain god, this very true in the french version.

I think intersting to watch the reactions to this topic.

 

Erm thats really not a Marxist viewpoint... If it were Marxist viewpoint I would have said that it was the Bourgeosie oppressing the Proletariat, not the priviledged elite/nobility. The view I expressed was one more along the lines of Sans Coulotte Socialism (Early Revolutionary France Socialism in other words).

As for your statement on the pledge, I disagree. Whenever something like the pledge is corrupted and used in a way in which it directly effects me, it becomes my concern. Being forced to say the pledge every morning directly effects me, therefore it is my concern, my civic duty, and my societal obligation to raise my concern.

I support states rights because I believe that the Federal Government's detached nature leads it to make decisions that are harmful to individual states... I guess I am just an anti-federalist.

 

I don't like the pledge because if you leave out the Under God bit they jump your shit.

I don't believe in religion and government combined, but in the USA, christianity is infected at every level, it being drilled into the heads of little children I have a major problem with.

 

Argh! Sorry, it's a bad habit of mine I call all Socialists Marxists....my bad. How much time does it take to say the pledge? How much time have you invested in opposing the pledge? You really don't have it that bad, I'm an American but I live in a third world country believe me when I tell you that you don't have it bad.....

 

I don't claim that its horrible.

But you have to fight to keep the rights you have, CONSTANT VIGILENCE!

 

Yeah, I don't mind the pledge in the context of what it really is (a poem), I just hate the fact that it is practically the first thing we learn (other than the alphabet) in school. They show use how to put our hands over our hearts, stand facing the flag that is convinently positioned next the chalkboard and pledge our little hearts out.

Reminds me too much of brainwashing. That, and if you stop saying it once your old enough to think; "Hey, I don't really have to say this thing, do I?" It suddenly becomes a big issue. I've been sent to the guidence office, principle's office, been kicked out of homeroom, held back in homeroom until I said it, (and previously mentioned) even purposely given low grades because of my refusal. It seems stupid for them to get all worked up over one little thing, right? Granted, it might just be that I was just about the only student there that didn't go to church and had been quite vocal about it (in a joking manner, of course, not that they took any notice).

I agree with Gio. It isn't really all that bad, I just can't stand the fact that if we are so "free" why are we being forced to say this little poem? FIGHT FOR OUR RIGHTS! (I really wanted to add a "to party" to the end of that, but I figured I'd be promoting the beastie boys, and I can't bring myself to do that.)

 

I think "indivisible" might have come from the civil war. Kind of like saying "Like hell were going to let you leave! These brainwashed children will make sure of that!", and not so much of a difference in opinion. Aimed at those states wanting to become less "united". :wink: Conspiracy theories make the world go round.

 

I know where Amsterdam is. It is in Europe, but it is not Europe (as a whole). And I'm, again, not saying there is no difference in attitudes, I'm saying the difference in attitudes is exagerrated.

I see what you're saying, I just don't agree. As I said in an earlier post, I don't believe the majority of the gay marriage opposition is to gay unions period, but is more of a consensus that marriage should retain some specific guidlines. Civil unions are more or less the same thing without shitting all over the 'tradition' of marriage, and enjoys much greater support. If we are going to say religiously the US and UK are more different, I'm on board. If you're saying the majority of Americans are genuine homophobes, I disagree.

 

Actually you're there to be indocrinated, not learn. The whole idea is to tunr everyone into perfect little cogs.

--bornagainpenguin

 

Even though i am Scottish, and British, i hate the fact that my queen and her family gets paid millions of pounds each year for basically sitting on her arse

 

See thats why I want to be King...*sing like simba from lion king* oohh I just can't wait to be king...

 

Exactly! What would you rather be, the President/Prime Minister and get paid to do crap, or a King/Queen and get paid to do absolutely dick?

 

I realise i am abit undereducated, what is the pledge?

 

See previous post by me. Its on either page 8 or 7.