We can't forget about republican move after the fall of communism. I think that after 1989 and fall of People's Republic of Poland, surviving nobility with some form of wizard elite created Magical Republic of Poland. Typical state run by aristocracy and intelligentsia.
The idea about form schooling is good, but we can't forget that Poland have Jagiellonian Univeristy which dates back to XIV century. And it can be assumed that it has an Facultie of Magic.

Later Hagrid mentioned that he had an encounter with vampire in Minsk, so we can assume that he run into that trolls at the Polish/Belorussian border in the Białowieża Primaeval Forest. After all, Białowieża is the last standing part of great forest that spanned the whole European Plain.

 

I like your ideas upon magical Poland. Do you two (Franki and Anarual) mind if I use them in my fic? I swear on my magic to give credit.

 

I hope it's ok if I interject on the subject of a US magical government. I always thought of it as a primitive Congress, like a bunch of representatives meeting in some big hall and sitting under some elected official. Maybe it's because I am American (not by choice) but that set up just seems more like what America would be like.

 

But how would that have come to pass? The wizarding world went to hiding some time during the middle ages (I think it was 14th century, but I am not sure), and the American continent had no connection to the European one until Colombus. Probably the native wizards had their own governments, and their special form of magic.

Now colonization starts, what happens to the native wizards? Do European Wizards try to assimilate the new land? The motives are easy to justify. New land, open markets for their goods, raw materials, some maybe unique to the continent etc.

I see a lot of different scenarios about how Wizarding America could have evolved.

 

There is a Salem Witches Institute there. Therefore, there have been, and are, American Wizards of some sort. Which means that, quite possibly, some of the European Wizards decided to move there at some point in the two hundred plus years that America has existed (either as colonies or a nation).

The Native Americans were pushed into reservations as the Europeans/Americans expanded into the whole of the nation(s). The Native Wizards/Witches probably got pushed back as well, possibly by European/American Wizards/Witches.

Now, I see American Wizarding Government as working in several different ways:

1) Various Wizarding societies that aren't connected to each other.
2) A government based upon the Articles of Confederation. More power to the individual Wizarding societies, but with a central government to keep them from invading/killing each other, and to establish a national identity as well as the societal.
3) A subsection of the American muggle government (as someone else mentioned)
4) Almost identical, but still separate Wizarding government based upon the muggle government.

More will be added to this post as I think of things. If you like any of the ideas stated, feel free to use them.

 

edit

Well you have to remember that most of American history is expanding on what we have. So say the wizards of the UK came over and brought their ideas on everything (which is entirely possible) including politics. It's almost tradition for Americans to say, "screw you, we'll do it our way" and then somehow change the Brits ideas to a variation of their own. Plus, I'm not saying it was instantly like that. oops, took so long to post someone beat me to it, but they said it

 

The only thing Salem proves is that there are wizards in north america. It tells you neither if they were originally european, the size of the institute nor anything else for that matter. You're all assuming that events in the wizarding world exactly mirrored the non-magical world.

The great emigration/immigration of the late middle ages was due to various civil reasons. Overpopulation, lack of food, lack of job, religious persecution et cetera. None of which shouldn't have existed in it's wizarding counterpart.

Remember, this was AFTER the breakup. So just because the non-magicals were poor and suffering doesn't mean that the wizards were poor and suffering.

Just because the western non-magicals were technologically advanced doesn't mean that the rest of the world would just bend over to a magical colonization. And even if for some reason western wizards decided to leave their cozy homes for absolutely no reason and won an overwhelming victory, well.. So? In that case the rest of the world are subjects of the western world. I'll remind you once again that the affairs of the wizards and non-magicals have been kept separate.

Just because the population of a silly region decides a revolution is a good idea and break off doesn't mean the magical world could care less nor change their borders.

 

Ahem. Look over my post again. I never said anything was definite except for two things:

1) There are wizards in America, as shown by the Salem Witches Institute (Canon).
2) Native Americans got pushed into reservations (historical fact).

Everything else, such as Native American wizards getting pushed back, European wizards immigrating? That was all conjecture. I stated it was possible, or probable, but never did I say that anything in the post (save for that numbered list) was fact.

 

Just a random idea that popped into my head for the US magical society could be that, since its Salem Witches Institute, the society is extremely feminist and woman based. This could have been a result of something during the initial colonisation with only a small number of males compared to females, or a magical disease early in the process which almost exclusively targeted males, or something along those lines.

Thus the only major school is for witches, men are perhaps kept as breeding stock or are given extremely specialised training (as in they train for one thing and one thing only, which could be anything from farm work to working with magical creatures).

 

Wasn't really replying to you though

So many just assume for no reason what so ever that the wizarding world would develop exactly like the non-magical one. During the course of history after the break borders have changed without pause, with new nations forming and old nations being annexed, it's impossible that a separatated world would follow all these details that frankly never concerned them.

Hogwarts for example was built in Scotland which was a sovereign kingdom separate from England. Either the magical population decided unification was a good idea as well or they were never organized enough to bother.

 

Who's to say that the wizards didn't discover America before the Muggles did?

 

The Vikings. When they where colonizating America, they had to bring with them some form of shaman/wiseman/sorcerer for "spiritual help".

Maybe the schools in USA are gender-divided? Salem Witches Institute is a girls-only facultie and men have some other school (eg. Miskatonic University in Arkham, Massachusetts).

I don't have objections. I just want to see one of the main characters in your fic drinking Polish Vodka and ending drunk in a draining ditch

 

Taure, I believe that one or two, or half a dozen, of DrT's series have a very unique basis in American Magical Society, which involves wizards settling properly in the early 1600's or so and choosing the prime bits of land for themselves, hiding them from muggles.

 

America, the new place for Amazon Witches... That got a chuckle out of me.

 

My ideas (which I'm going to incorporate into a story whose first chapter will be out in a week...or a month...or five...let's just make it someday).

Some are taken from the muggle v. wizard debate; others from LotR.

Of the New World (i.e. America)
"The civilized countries in the Old World despise and sneer at us; we are barbaric in our practices, cheaters, liars, traitors. When an man uses a cheap tactic in a duel, they go and scoff and they say, "How American, how lower-class."

And yet they know in their hearts that if we ever united, then their pathetic little countries would be destroyed before Albus Dumbledore could walk out of his little Hogwarts.

Every Dark Lord has tried to conquer this land to be immortalized as the one who tamed the New World. They have all failed. They will never suceed. Grindlewald came close, but like all of them, he was consumed by our traps. Our twisting array of alliances, our age-old feuds, our betrayals. Our victory.

I'd say that the New World is far more civilized than the Old. How many times have we interfered in muggle affairs? None, while the African wizards plunder and destroy whole nations.

How many wizards come back to the Old World after coming here? None. Now, people say that's only because they all die within a week, but I can personally attest that every wizard I've ever met from the Old World refuses to come back. They love it here. They hate the Old World.

How many times has a European wizard had his mind altered with before he reaches his majority? Too many to count. How many in the New World? None. We're free. That's the difference between the Old World and the New. We're free. We don't have governments controlling us. We don't have governments.

You see, a wizard in the New World can walk out of his home and do whatever he wants. He can travel wherever he wants. He can use whatever spells he wants. He can do anything, as long as he's powerful. There are no annoying laws and regulations hindering him. He's free.

Wizards in the New World can actually defend themselves. They learn life lessons, practical stuff instead of useless schooling. There's no Ministry of Magic to call if a nundu's escaped; deal with the problem yourself.

And we do that. We take care of ourselves. That's why the average wizard in the New World can kill two dozen wizards in the Old World without a sweat.

The strange notion that the New World is a terrible place to live in is completely false." - Jordan Cyuk, Arch-Mage of the Masonic Society until he was assassinated at the tender age of 29. (The average life-span of wizard in the New World is 32 before he is killed in battle or assassination.)
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Of the Magical Roman Empire and it's Influence Today
The magical Roman empire was the greatest nation in the history of the magical world. The means of their success lay in a superb innovation that transformed and regulated magic in humans. That is, Romans were the first to develop the wand.

Before the Romans came up with this innovation, organizations of wizards were nonexistent. A wizard himself would most likely never discover his power; it would kill him before the age of 20, or others would do so, afraid of him. Even if he did discover his magic, control was erratic and chaotic. Several ancient societies had discovered the existence of magical humans, but none of them were able to harness this power. It was too uncontrolled, too random. Wandless magic was nearly impossible to use in an effective manner.

And then the Romans developed the wand. This constituted a revolution in magic, and for this they are revered in Europe, where they held their seat of power.

They are hated elsewhere in the world, for with this invention came untold power. With this new weapon, the Romans under a single Emperor whose name is forgotten came hard and fast against all the civilized nations in the world. And they conquered them.

Today, muggle historians speak of several vast empires (the Hellenistic states, the Mauryan Empire, the Han Dynasty, the Persian Empire, and not least the muggle Roman Empire) in the time period of the Roman hegemony. These were ruled by the Romans, under a system whose workings are somewhat muddled by the passage of time. What is known is that the Roman Magical (and supposedly Divine) Emperor would appoint a family to rule each region of the world, and this family would become the monarch of the empire ruling the area.

The main weakness of this approach was that a family would entrench itself to the point that it would declare independence from the Romans, at which point the Emperor would appoint a new family to ursurp the rebellion. Thus the Parthian Persians were replaced by the Sassinad Persians, the constantly rebelling Hellenistic states were finally organized under the Emperor's direct control, the too-powerful Mauryan Empire in India was replaced by a group of local rulers, and the same occurred with the Han Dynasty. But for a while the world was a puppet whose strings were pulled by the Romans, with each movement creating an ocean of blood.

And then the Emperor, who had lived for nigh a millenium off a Philosopher's Stone, died in a fluke while battling a much inferior barbarian tribe at the Battle of Adrianople.

Records of the battle are scant, and there is no official reason for why the Emperor was slain. Perhaps the Goths really got lucky. Perhaps the Emperor was assassinated. Perhaps the Emperor still rules the magical world. The theories of what really happened have never stopped and never will stop.

His only heir took the helm. Records grow even more scarce here. Simple facts such as the age of his heir are still unknown. He could have been anywhere from 900 years old to 20 years old.

And then his heir disappeared into a crack of history for reasons unknown yet tainted with dark magic, and Magical Rome, greatest of empires in the old world, collapsed.


There sits an empty chair today in the ruins of the Curia Julia, the Roman Senate, where the king may take his seat when he returns. When that happens, he will have the forces of Europe at his command, for each magical government there has sworn an oath to serve his every wish when the king returns. Then he will reconquer the world and usher in a new era of peace and prosperity.

Or, if you're not European, it will be a new era of warfare and ruin.

 

I like that view of America, sounds exactly the sort of place that would form when a new land was populated by scum, outcasts and wastrels.

 

No I would think that would be more attune to Australia... Historically that was a penal colony. The US sounds like it never got over the wild west.

 

Apology To Mordecai

Mordecai, I think that I owe you an apology.

In Beledorian's post, there was no specific mention of the types of people that came to America. So I thought you were making a general statement. (You did not really elaborate on your thought.)

In addition to this, I've been annoyed at some of your posts before ( i.e. Benjamin Franklin, a traitor; your response to the illegal monitoring of citizens). And became frustrated that I arrived too late to reply to you or to contribute to the discussion.

I saw this as an opportunity to take out that annoyance at what I saw as an airtight opening.

I see that I was mistaken.

For this I sincerely apologize.

And I will be balancing out the negrep that I gave you.

 

I think there's an underestimation of how muggleborns, having a childhood and family influenced by the modern world, would change the wizarding world.

Granted, it would be slow going and not in a 'teh equalities' kind of way, but there would be some influence.

Not everyone is as disposed to cutting ties with the muggle world as Harry is. And we have seen that half-bloods and muggleborns make up the majority of the wizarding population.

 

Perhaps they may be, but that would lead to a boring identical type of government throughout the planet. What I was trying to do is create a fanon universe of diversity, with many different types of magical governments, leading from the almost free and egalitarian to the tyrannical.

As for mudbloods influencing magical society, I disagree with you on that post. The only time we saw that happening in canon was in the fluffy friends4eva! epilogue that Rowling "graciously" provided us with.

For them to be able to reform magical governments, they must have one of two related things: money or political power and influence. Baring the unexpected arrival of a rich muggle, heir to some wealthy family, most of the mudbloods we'd seen range from the lower to upper middle class.

Political power is the slowest for a new comer to achieve, even more so in antiquated societies such as the wizarding world.

In conclusion-Mudbloods changing the world? Perhaps, in twenty to fifty years. In my fic, NEVER!