Yeah I hear you Garden. Let's put this in context. If the S9 have no problems with their cloning (or whatever) then we're looking at maybe a group of almost 100 psychopaths running around. We know from one of the interludes (one of the weaker ones admittedly) that Scion might actually try to kill an Endbringer the next time one shows up. The new and improved S9 might be intended, narratively, to act as a counter point.

With that said I highly doubt killing an Endbringer will really be that easy. Even with Scion.

Talk about an apocolypse scenario eh? We have a dimensional rift in a city which is damn near close to being hell on earth, an army of psychopaths trying to end the world, skyscraper-tall abominations actively destroying the planet, and a shadowy organization which is behind the PRT.

That's actually another thing I've been thinking about. Anyone else figure that the key difference between Earth A and B is actually somoeone figuring our the 'formulae' for powers? I mean that certainly explains the disproportionate number of capes in each reality.

 

Nah, the overall number/power of capes in Earth Beta is much higher, and there aren't any Endbringers in Earth Aleph.

 

Must've got those two mixed up then. Thanks for the clarification there Orm.

 

Essentially, there's a huge number of differences between the two dimensions, primarily due to the number of Parahumans emerging in and after the 1980s and the presence of Endbringers. Leviathan sank Newfoundland and devastated Kyushu. Behemoth has left major population centres as radioactive wastelands. The Simurgh created thousands of 'guided missiles' to create huge devastation, and our main example of what happens is Madison, Wisconsin. Another example was Canberra on February 24th 2011, from the forums interlude. We have Hawaii, Lausanne, Moscow, and Sydney uninhabitable by unlisted Endbringers, as well. Presumably, Hawaii, Lausanne and Sydney by Leviathan, Moscow by Behemoth, based off if they're coastal/inland. There's the fact that Presidents and major politicians are different. There was a President Gillen when the Travellers arrived, and there is/was a President Bradley.

Edit: There was also a President Griffin, January 18th, 1993. Alexandria's interlude.

Link: http://parahumans.wordpress.com/2012/10/30/colony-15-5/#comment-5636

Also, the explosion of the parahuman population also results in Tinkers. Tinkers like Alan Gramme (Mannequin) aren't unique in their dedication to making life better for everyone. Mannequin had a known target base of Tinkers and Parahumans using their powers to improve the lives of the general populace. Certain Tinker types are especially suited to doing so. Imagine if Blasto had set up an industry for servant plants that would act as cheap butlers for people, or Bonesaw opened a hospital and revolutionised healthcare. There's thousands upon thousands of Tinkers, so I'm sure at least a handful have worked in industry.

Edit: Something I found, after.

Tattletale told Armsmaster that even detonating a nuke in Leviathan's face wouldn't kill him, just put him in a recovery state for two to three years.

Also, for those curious: The entire most recent chapter (sans interlude) took place on the Eighth of July, 2011.

 

I've only skimmed the past few pages so it's possible someone mentioned this before but, I was pondering Dinah's prophecy/vision regarding Jack and the end of the world and I was struck by a thought.

Dinah said Jack would end the world, who said it had to be Skitters world?

Given what we've been told of Passengers and other worlds in the last arc, as well as the portal that currently exists in Brockton Bay, am I alone in thinking that there may be a slight twist regarding Jack's supposed destiny? At the very least the portal offers a potential escape from whatever horror the Slaughterhouse 9 inevitably unleash.

Any thoughts? I'd be interested to hear other peoples views on this, though my responses may be somewhat delayed.

 

I suppose it might be a different world, but Dinah had specific things to say about the situation. From memory: The heroes are scattered around the world in five major groupings when the end comes. Skitter is present, but different in an unspecified way. If Skitter kills everyone she can in the USA, then the apocalypse still happens on schedule.

 

Talk about the plot thickening. Wildbow released another interlude, this one focusing on Accord. I'm feeling like his, somewhat surprising, goal suggests that Cauldron might be closer to being the good guys - even if they're ethically/ morally reprehensible. I also savour the chance to see how other people view Skitter and the Undersiders. Not disappointed here. The fact the Skitter managed to impress Accord despite how dissonant her powers are to him...well I got some warm fuzzy feelings.

Anyone want to take bets on how the Fallen are going to get merced? I'm betting slit throats or shock. Oh, and did we get any previous information on the Butcher and the Teeth or is that a new thing?

 

My wild theory about Tattletale being Accord's daughter seems to be dead in the water. It was always a long shot though.

Butcher? No. Teeth? Yes. Their gang used to be in Brockton Bay a long time ago. They left, moving to another city. Now, they've come back. All of the Brockton Bay-era members of the Teeth are dead or gone, so the current members aren't locals at all. The Teeth have been intruding on Parian's territory, though last I heard she hadn't asked for help dealing with them.

How irritating must it be, to live your life with Accord's powers? No wonder he's off his rocker.

 

I really don't think you can be a good guy if your actions are morally reprehensible...the ends don't justify the means. That's why Alexandria's threat to recruit Saint was so shocking last chapter.

Q1: Will Skitter get a second trigger? With all of her tinker envy, I'm thinking if it happens, her new powers will be related to that.
Q2: Previous interlude mentioned a Vikare somewhere? Don't recall seeing his name before. Powers, background?

 

I can't agree with that. Maybe heroes can't/shouldn't think like that, but they don't have an exclusive right to being the "good guys". There are plenty of situations where the end does justify the means.

I do recall a hero's death being "the end of the golden age" in an earlier chapter. He was a hero who died trying to quell a riot, I think, at a basketball game. He was hit on the head. If I'm not mixing up past events, then that hero was also one of the folks on the ship, those who first met with Scion.

When I read the previous interlude, I assumed that Vikare was the same guy (because of the 'end of the golden age' statement) and I'd just forgotten his name. I'd have to go back to check.

edit: Yes, it's Vikare. It's in Interlude-1.

 

For a given definition of such, sure. The problem with that is that the consequences of the means are part of the end.

For example, the classic dilemma of "kill one to save ten". You kill the one, because the ends justify the means, and while you've saved ten, you've still killed one.

One could argue all day whether or not that's worse, but it's certainly not what most would consider "heroic". Fate/Stay Night handled that particular subject rather well IMO. Killing one to save the other doesn't make you a hero. Saying the ends justifies the means is just a platitude to placate one's conscience as you become a monster.

You have a good reason sure, but that's little consolation to the person who's dead or their family and friends.

Further, where does one then draw the line? When do the ends stop justifying the means? If it's acceptable to kill one to save ten, is it not therefore also acceptable to kill nine to save ten?

And by what value do you judge the lives saved versus the lives taken? Is the scum of the earth worth less? Are the righteous worth more? Would it then be acceptable to burn down a prison to save a nun?

Etc, etc. I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this.

And with that said, I'm going to apologize to the thread in general because this is rather off topic and I'm not going to let myself respond further on the discussion. I just can't help myself right now because that saying has always bugged me.

 

I can't help but think that Accord is just a poor man's Coil.

Well, whatever. Skitter is badass.

 

I'm going to respect your request to end the conversation, even though you already laid out your argument, but know that I'm itching to respond. My argument involves monkey spheres, protecting humanity, becoming a monster for the greater good, sacrificing your life vs sacrificing your morals, eating a bullet, and almost no maths. I suppose it can be summed up with: I'd kill yours to save mine.

Does that make me a bad person? Not unless I get called on it, I'd wager.

Cauldron's done monstrous things, but are they just Skitter writ large? Doing the wrong things for the right reasons? Maybe. Maybe.

 

And Thursday. Then Saturday. Back to Tuesday.

At least there is a fixed update schedule, it saves a lot of the stress involved in anticipating things.

 

Exactly what I meant Yak. So I'm wagering that this arch is going to focus on Skitter and the Undersiders consolidating more power. Then next arch something terrible is going to happen, again.

 

I'm definitely okay with that. While the catastrophes are awesome, having them back to back leaves me feeling like the antagonists aren't making much headway. I'll confess I miss the slice of life feel of the story we had before Extermination, even if just a little.

One arc of non-"holy fuck we're all gonna die!" will be appreciated.

I'm just wondering when Skitter is going to have her second trigger, and I'm a little surprised it hasn't happened yet. I thought for sure when she was trapped in Echidna, that was going to do it. Echidna's comparison between her and Grue (who's had his) and Eidolon (who's a boss) seems to me to make it a certainty.

 

This, Jesus. It's not quite Dungeon Keeper Ami, but damn would it be nice for shit not to be going downhill fast for once.

And until someone pointed out Parian could have made the Scorpion, I was really hoping Skitter's second trigger would be a knockoff version of Panacea's Super Bug Making.

 

On the subject of the S9, I also was scratching my head about how the clones' powers are supposed to work, because it doesn't really mesh with what we think we know about passengers. If the plot demands it, I suppose it will happen. I wouldn't be very happy about reading another S9 arc though. The original was great, but now that we have a measure of them it would just make for some grim reading. On top of that, they're banished from BB until after the end of the world, so unless Skitter decides to go after them I don't think we'll be seeing much of them outside of interludes.

I find it frustrating that they're still on a roll, given how much firepower the Protectorate can assemble in such a short time to fight the likes of Leviathan and Echidna. After Siberian went down you'd think they'd call everyone in for mop-up, but no. We're still afflicted by their psycho shit. God, I just need Bonesaw to die. That alone marks her as a powerfully written character.

I wasn't really satisfied with the way that Coil went out, given what we now know about him and his relationship to Cauldron. The big wigs talk about the future depending on him, but if his real motive was simply to take over BB that makes very little sense. With the revelation that Accord has now left his Boston empire to fill Coil's shoes in BB along with his interest in the Undersiders specifically, I feel like there had to have been more going on.

Cauldron has stated (and this may be horseshit) that they're trying to create the ultimate hero to save the world. We know they're trying to do this with their formulas, but I'm thinking there may be a Foundation-type plan involved with a second option cooking. Instead of using the formula, find some well-meaning mooks and send them against all comers, pushing them to and past their limits over and over and over again until something triggers.

If Coil had really been planning his takeover for years, then why the sudden urgency in the month or two prior to the final push? Coil and Cauldron probably couldn't have conspired to have all of the shit rain down on the Undersiders that did, but throwing a team of schoolkids who had been mostly untested up against experienced capes as often as he did seemed a bit suicidal on Coil's part. Even with his and Dinah's powers, there were no sure things.

I'm interested to know if Coil's one and only goal really was just to take over BB or if he was trying to create conflict between capes for the sake of conflict, to see if he could make something happen. I also would not be shocked or upset to know that he faked his death twice, and was still working behind the scenes.

Edit:

I would really love an interlude to see what the reaction of the PRT capes to Skitter are after the fight with Echidna. Cutting a threat like that in half in front of everyone is probably one of the most impressive a lot of the capes present had ever seen, especially when you consider how ineffective the Triumvirate were against her in comparison. I also would like to know if Scapegoat's power really did intensify the damage when it was transferred to him or if Skitter was just that hardcore. Would have been another big boost to her rep.

If word got out about all that she had done then I think it really would make her a big enough bad for the PRT to break the rules and go after her like they did, but really I would just like to see in definitive terms what sort of rep she has outside of BB.

 

I'm pretty sure that all Cauldron is interested in is researching the passengers. Don't see why they'd be interested in BB specifically (since Coil's takeover occurred before the portal) so it probably has something to do with Calvert having control over both the capes and villains, as you've suggested, Howdy. I do think he's truly dead though. There really isn't that much development for his character left (although, how does he get his power?s? Trigger event or Cauldron?), and Accord is now the mastermind behind the scenes...there's really no reason for him to come back.

I think we can infer from Accord and the PRT Directors' reactions in the Interludes that Skitter and her team have become top threats with corresponding reputations. Any less subtle than that and it would seem like...fishing for compliments? Skitter'd seem too Mary-Sue? Though, I do want to see a large-scale battle in which she leads the capes from the beginning...acknowledgement of her tactical genius.