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Worm Mafia

Discussion in 'Little Italy' started by Gemma, Dec 3, 2018.

  1. Eidolonic

    Eidolonic Supreme Mugwump

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    1,632
    Super busy. Unexpected events occurred.

    Have setup thoughts I'll post more on later, but not sure I want to lynch Citrus yet.

    Basically - it could be a scum role but it's not a scum role if town has nothing. Could make sense as v weak town pr in an effectively mountainous game.

    I'll try to catch up on stuff I missed last night later, I see a lot of lyric words I want to read
    --- Post automerged ---
    Unvote
     
  2. Newcomb

    Newcomb Minister of Magic

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    lol
     
  3. Citrus

    Citrus First Year

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    Uhh day is only 48 hours long and ends tomorrow?

    I don't think I can see a scum!vaimes scum!fontisian world where this happens? Less fontisian posting that and more vaimes claiming that way with fontisian as his partner
    --- Post automerged ---
    Citrus (1) - Regfan
    Eido (1) - fonti
    Regfan (1) - Citrus

    8 alive, 5 soft, 7 hard.

    Seriously guys this is pathetic. We're halfway through D2 and half the player list hasn't even placed their vote. Even if you count Lyric and Eidolonic as votes for counting purposes, that's 5/8 people even using their vote at some point D2.

    @his fluffiness
    @tom
    @Newcomb
     
  4. tom

    tom First Year

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    I'm leveraging my vote as befits my lock town position.

    Who do you think I should vote for?
     
  5. Citrus

    Citrus First Year

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    Uhh so due to unforeseen circumstances I have just discovered I'm going to effectively be V/LA tomorrow for most of the day, just fyi
    --- Post automerged ---
    Scum.

    If you're actually asking, Regfan would be a good start. Even if you're not as comfortable putting it there, it'll at least hopefully force him to ~do something~ today

    You could address my post concerning Regfan's sloth-ful shove on me actually, while you're here
     
  6. Newcomb

    Newcomb Minister of Magic

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    Hm.

    Not sure who I want to lynch.

    fonti are you like, all-in on it being Eido here?
     
  7. fontisian

    fontisian Slug Club Member

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    Uh.

    Sure?
     
  8. Newcomb

    Newcomb Minister of Magic

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    Honestly, like.

    How does Eido ever make that kill? Like, ever?
    --- Post automerged ---
    He was the one who specifically said not to rule out w/w wagons at like :05 to deadline. As a wolf, he says that, then shoots the counter. Lmao.
     
  9. Citrus

    Citrus First Year

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    May not actually miss much of tomorrow, apologies (woo!)
     
  10. tom

    tom First Year

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    Didn't I respond at the time?

    Honestly that back and forth barely moved the needle on either of you I remember there being one point he made that made some sense to me and liking how you fired back and you're about back where you started and he never moved in my estimation.
    --- Post automerged ---
    I'm still at "the kill makes no sense from anyone thus it makes equal sense for everyone"
    --- Post automerged ---
    Extremely willing to be convinced of [something] over here
     
  11. Citrus

    Citrus First Year

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    No, you stated how it affected things for you to some degree for the act of existing, but you didn't say anything about whether you agreed/disagreed
    --- Post automerged ---
    Which you actually did there too. You said "something" he said made sense and that you liked that I responded, but I have no idea what the thinh you agreed with was or whether you changed your mind based off what I said
     
  12. Newcomb

    Newcomb Minister of Magic

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    I'll have to sit down with this tomorrow, too much shit happened tonight
     
  13. fontisian

    fontisian Slug Club Member

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    Lol Newcomb.
     
  14. Newcomb

    Newcomb Minister of Magic

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    Yeah that would be an unfortunate post if it’s Eido here :v
     
  15. Eidolonic

    Eidolonic Supreme Mugwump

    Joined:
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    1. Cobalt
    2. Newcomb
    3. Vaimes
    4. Lyric
    5. tom
    6. his fluffiness
    7. Citrus
    8. Eidolonic
    9. Regfan
    10. fontisian

    Cobalt was shot for some reason and flipped town.

    I'm town. I think this frankly is textbook example of my low-medium effort village game. I'd compare it to the MTGS invitational a while back, as me kind of shrugging at people who Aren't Town Reads and probably having all the wolves in it, but never really pushing anything. I can't actually remember if I talked about not getting there on Vaimes being town with people, or meant to talk about not getting there on him, but in an 8-2 game, this is just never, ever how I handle randing wolf with Vaimes. I would do /something/ to give me a way to look unaligned, either putting him into the ground to generate credit ( what little I'd get with my meta), or... I don't know. I just wouldn't do what I did, which was side eye him a little from the very start for having reads that felt placating/TMI, and calling him out immediately upon his claim, but still not push him because I have 100% accuracy rate reading Vaimes, and if he was town that's not a mislynch I'd ever want to let happen. I just never got there on him, but wasn't so sure he was a wolf that I was willing to push it either. Like, if I'm a wolf with Vaimes, I know from the rand that I have to win in a final 3. Let's be real, it's Vaimes. This is not how I wolf with Vaimes, and if I need to win in a final 3, Cobalt is NEVER the kill I make when I'm going to struggle to get mislynches anyways. I felt like it was likely w/w wagons at the end of yesterday and was almost fully checked out of the game, before seeing Cobalt's baffling death in the night.

    I think Reg is pretty much 100% town here. There's a few small things that niggled at me for a while, but I think he's a very mechanically/goal focused scum player, and Cobalt being the NK is just not at all something that would ever even occur to him. He's not Tom, he's not even me, he doesn't really operate on the multiple level of scum play that would make it harder for him to win by denying himself easy mislynches for doing nothing. If he wanted to keep myself/newcomb alive he'd shoot Tom or Fonti or something for a day, not a free mislynch. This ignores the way he entered the thread, which I think he never does as a wolf with me/Newcomb both Town, he'd hate being a wolf, it'd suck, but he'd have more personal pride than like... crutching on...that.

    Newcomb is likewise probably Just Town. It's not as ironclad as I wish it was because I still just haven't found a post from him that has his special brand of wrapping his brain around shit, unfortunately like. I'm probably not going to /get/ a post like that because game is pretty much locked, and he's going to phone it in from here, so. Him not doing anything to the neighborizer shot, or mentioning it, or considering what it means for Citrus' alignment feels a little odd to me, but also kind of...not. This isn't one of my setups, but it's historically on DLP been an 'either alignment' thing, so I kind of get it I guess. Just. I dunno. I think he's just town. Vaimes spew plays into it some too, but it's mostly just a 'he'd not play it like this as a wolf in this playerlist' read, much like the Reg one at its core.

    Fonti is probably just town - Vaimes linking her to tom as a '1 wolf in 2' thing is probably not how he treats a partner. It'd have been easy for Fonti to push Cobalt when I gave her the chance, especially when giving Vaimes D2 made a lot of sense from a pragmatic standpoint - if he was town, he's easy to clear, etc. Her continued aggression on me is probbbably a plus, even if it's kind of obnoxious? Her not wanting me to talk my way out of it rings pretty true to me, even if it's annoying given I'm town. (I think the correct play is to always give me until F3, and then auto lynch me in any F3, in every game where there's 1 wolf left). There's a couple things that are minor, like feeling like the argument with Tom kind of dragged on a little too long (if I squint my eyes, it's just giving her something to argue about to be seen doing things), but that feels like just trying to force a reason she might not be town than something I actually believe in at all, so. Yeah she's probably just town.

    Tom is likely town. He's only likely because like. It's Tom. Subverting his bussing meta and then making the dumbest kill possible in a game vs. me/reg/newcomb all town is like. Something I can totally see him doing because he takes pride in his scum play, but has been pretty garbage on DLP as scum. But I don't...really think that's what he did here. This felt like Tom's town performance art kind of game instead of his scum pretending to be town type of game. It just 'feels' different to me in ways I can't really articulate, but I'm not actually sure I've ever been wrong on Tom's alignment, no matter how annoying he feels to read, so. He's probably town.

    That gives me 4 very, very strong town reads plus myself making 5.

    There are 3 names left - Citrus, Lyric, Fluffiness.

    We have 3 lynches left.

    Unfortunately people kinda want to lynch me, so that means I need to find a town in the remaining three so game ends with next two lynches, because fuck you I'm not getting mislynched in a game we lynched Vaimes D1 and have a ton of lynches left.

    Hm.

    Let's talk Citrus.

    I don't want to lynch Citrus today because of largely the claim and setup gaming. I think it makes sense for like, a neighborizer + 7 VT vs. 2 goons to be the setup. I don't think it makes sense as a scum role unless we have 1-2 town PR's outside him. 8 VT vs. a neighborizer + a goon is not the setup.

    That means I'm willing to put off Citrus until we mass claim + evaluate his behavior in a vaccuum until then. He's not today's lynch, and might just be town? I do kind of think the Cobalt kill makes more sense from him than it does most people, because my gut feeling is he's more willing to make the big play and swing for fences as a wolf? But I don't really have anything to back that up other than like... gut archetypal feels, so eh.

    I sort of like him pushing on Reg and Newcomb still despite them being pretty strong town reads? Feel like as a wolf he'd have a better feel for the room and know that pushing on them is going to lead to him getting domed at some point before he wins in a F3, but this is pretty weak. Especially if he shot Cobalt, just going full refuge in audacity to follow it up as his gameplan could be a thing, but.

    Idk. If I had the bet the game on his alignment I'd say town, but my butt would be pretty puckered as I waited on the result.

    That means I need to figure out if I'm okay with the next 3 lynches being Fluff/Lyric > Me, I guess.

    Whee.

    I also need to do 115-120 hours of work in the next 145 hours. This is going to be a fun week.

    ISO's and thoughts on Fluff/Lyric to come, but this is where I'm at right now.

    and @Citrus

    Since I think you mentioned this - I'm aware like, I have town reads on stronger/experienced players, and don't on the weaker ones.

    But sometimes it just happens that way - I trust my ability to read the people I know well and play with more, and I got there as town on them pretty confidently. Me/Reg/Newcomb/Fonti all being town is going to happen some games, and I'm pretty sure it did this one. I don't actually have any strong scum reads, but I don't really need them this game. I just need to find one confident villager in you/fluff/lyric and the game is locked.
    --- Post automerged ---
    My hero gut call is that it's Lyric, but I want to try and back that up and talk about why my gut is feeling that way. And maybe just lynch Fluff instead if my re-read of her posts tomorrow doesn't confirm what my gut is feeling.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
  16. Regfan

    Regfan First Year

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    0
    Will be home and start catching up in about 2-3 hours.
     
  17. Lyric

    Lyric Squib

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    *deep breath*

    Lynch: Eidolonic
    --- Post automerged ---
    PoE for me now is probably Eido -> fluff -> Newcomb/Citrus

    This thread makes me feel like I'm losing my mind, Eido I realllyyyyyy hope you're scum and that's just the explanation for your behavior, I don't even get the sense you've read half my posts and I've had a fair bit of significant material.

    I feel irrational like I'm just voting Eido because he refuses to townread me, but at this point this picking and choosing thing HAS to be intentional, am I the only one who sees this? Bc I'm starting to feel crazy by myself here.

    I feel like I am Citrus and Citrus is me. I hope I never have to lynch him.
     
  18. fontisian

    fontisian Slug Club Member

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    Vote: fluff
     
  19. Lyric

    Lyric Squib

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    @Citrus, I'll try to do a reread and stuff later, including probably a reevaluation of everyone soon, but yeah neither of your posts (Reg's case against you or your case against Reg) does anything to me or particularly seems unreasonable (in either alignment), but I've been reading Regfan super towny since Day 1 (p sure I have posts) and Day 2 didn't change that (also have something I'm p sure) but I'll do an ISO of him at some point anyways. But ngl, a lot of it is his treatment of me. His attitude seems so confident/solvey in like a towny way, he had me as a townread in this specific "Yeah I'm solving and I'm proud of myself!" kind of way, he's looking so hard into my posts he actually notices when one of them is a different style than the others, I feel like he's one of the only ones really engaging with me/evaluating me in a "pure" kind of way, and probably something not that reasonable in there about just liking him because of that in a NAI way.

    I do think you're a lot townier for your recent posts, esp with how you're continuing to try to engage with people, your frustration at people not voting, etc. Also I kind of feel for you+agree with you on Eido and tom. @tom maybe should use his "locktown" position to help push thread and reads forward. :/

    Eido has been....ignoring parts of my posts from the beginning (like Day 1, he kept commenting on my townreads without factoring other posts I've made explaining my stances *multiple times* - in contrast to say Newcomb, who also mentioned he thought my lack of paranoia in my first posts were "weird" but acknowledging my rationale and my posts explaining them), still somehow almost completely ignoring me Day 2 while being there and commenting for almost everything else (tom, Citrus, general thread, etc etc). I feel like his stance hasn't changed on me since like, my first reads post, in this kind of not organic/almost stubborn kind of way. Specifically asked for pushes from me, but has yet to comment on any of mine although he made a post afterwards with the exact same thoughts on my main push Day 1 (fluff). I just kind of get the feeling he's NOT reading my posts but at the same time, his posts suggest he actually is. There are certain similar actions/thoughts we have had throughout both days (for example, both of us reading Citrus townier after his claim, I unvote then he unvotes, etc) yet selectively no comments whatsoever on any of them. It honestly feels like he's purposefully ignoring me at this point.
    Also I find this stuff kind of inconsistent. I think I've mentioned this in a former post, but for example he keeps saying conciliatory/pockety things about me and saying I"m not realllyyyy a scum read, etc but then his posts suggest otherwise (says multiple times it's just that he DOESN'T actively townread me altho I could still be villager, and then Day 1 he says he has no really strong reads either way, but Day 2 comes (and he ignores me) and in his own post his reads don't actually seem that strong (uses phrases like User is kinda X, but eh probs towny bc *insert something that doesn't sound like he's overly convinced* etc)but then he goes on to say "I have these very, very strong townreads so its def probs just Lyric/fluff!")
    He also keeps pointing out the same things I find scummy (what I found scummy about tom before the flip, HF, Newcomb here with the Citrus thing tho to be fair I didn't comment on it yet), and .... pretty much ignores them.
    Idk, I just feel like his attitude in general is just at odds here and his attitude towards actively sketchy things is to ...ignore them and townread them anyways, while continuing pushing on me while generally ignoring my posts.

    Honestly kinda feel like he's just taking advantage of the fact that people listen to him and they're not gonna listen to me.
    Kinda feeling like Citrus here that he's just going after the easy lynches.

    I'm really looking forward to his ISO on me, actually.
    --- Post automerged ---
    @fontisian

    Do you see anything wrong with what I'm saying? Am I missing/misinterpreting something here?
    --- Post automerged ---
    To add on to my post, it's not just him thinking it's between me and fluff, it's that he keeps saying things that suggests he has me null but then makes multiple comments like (think it's just Lyric! Hope it's Lyric! Gut says it's Lyric!).
    --- Post automerged ---
    And I highkey don't buy it.
    --- Post automerged ---
    lol I'm just pretty sad at this point.
     
  20. Regfan

    Regfan First Year

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    So yeah, I'm just going to post some quick thoughts because I'm super sleep deprived right now and have a long work week coming up.

    Citrus's claim doesn't really do anything for me, think Gemma easily puts that role in the game as either alignment, I get Eidos argument of "We can clear him up upon a mass-claim and thus pointless to go down that avenue now"...I just don't agree with it, I think 8 VTs, 2 Scum with scum having a 1-Shot neighbourizer, or 7 VTs, 1-Shot neighbourizer, 2 Scum are both things Gemma would consider relatively similar/even in terms of balance. I don't really believe any of his response towards me or his read on me here today. And I think the whole "You're going to deal with Regfan on D3" type attitude feels fake. Like I think if he's town here, he's not just assuming he's going to get lynched today and I think he's looking at multiple players/avenues/thoughts if he was which just isn't there. Sort of reaction towards the push on him is pretty similar to how I've seen a lot of scum players react towards me.

    I'm uhhh, like #betthegame on Lyric being town, the series of thoughts/paranoia with like ~20 automerges is just....insanely town and not something scum does in their first scum game. The fact that Eidos not got around to that read yet is like, very concerning.

    TLDR; I'd bet the game on Tom/Newcomb/Fonti/Lyric being town.

    I'd mow through Citrus/Eido/Fluff to win the game, and I'd probably go in that order too.

    That said, I do want to devote a little more time to look at Citrus & Eido when I wake up before EOD since I'd rather just win this today (Have a p big week coming up and I'm not sure I'll have much time to play this if this continues) because I'm pretty sure the game ends in a lynch on one of them; Fluffs pretty much just a "Can't lock-clear the dude" position rather than actually thinking he's scum here at all.
    --- Post automerged ---
    Oh did want to mention I think the way that Eido is "There" on me feels..weird/wrong? Like I get the logic of "He's not the sort of person that'd make a wacky kill like that" which is true, but I don't think that reasoning should be like, the way he gets to lock clearing me here. If he'd got there from realising Vaimes's spewed me town, or that some of my thoughts/play here is just #postingunfilteredthoughts type thing then I'd get it a bit more but uh, yeah, definitely something I wanted to mention.
    --- Post automerged ---
    Talk to me about this a little more please, feels like we've almost crossed/switched reads on Eido/Fluff, so what am I missing.

    Also talk to me about Citrus a bit please, sanity-checking some of my thoughts on him above would be nice.
     
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