I don't know how to explain. It's just harder to know what I think if I know what I'm supposed to think or what the other person wants to hear.

 

Oh I nearly forgot about this. I went through Zenzao's ISO again.

I don't really know what to make of that because it seems too stupid to be a scumslip or something like that but that's what it looks like? He's lying about how his tier list is ordered. @Tammy am I crazy?
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I don't want you to think the same thing as me. I want you to think what you think.
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Gemma
Tammy

dC

lulz

fluff
Vaimes

you

Zenzao

Cobalt
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Goodnight.

 

Read me however you want, just don't tell me that you're comparing me to past games if you can help it. If you can't help it, then go ahead. Do what you need to do. I'll forgive you.

Read me based on what I do. Read me based on what I say. Hold me to stances I take. I stand by the stances I take. The reason I don't want to go into more detail than I have about what is wrong is that I want to be taken seriously. I don't want my words to be discounted or dismissed. I am capable of being a contributing member of the town.

But if you talk about a past game like "elections" then realise that I don't know what you're talking about and I have to go look it up and then I see the list of the alts and I think "oh that was that lovely game where we were all friends" -- but that's all I remember about it.

I hope your headache gets better and that you get the sleep that you need.

 

Gemma, I can play the “you’re misreading me so you’re scum!!” card too.

You’re making a lot of demands that I don’t really feel like fulfilling at the moment. Maybe after work.
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though I will say I agree that Cobalt’s posts were pretty hollow

 

Idk how I was making demands. I asked you a few questions and told you what I thought about some of your posting. I have you as null and I'm not trying to lynch you.

 

Actually, I have some time now.

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motherfuckerrrrrr

it's fine, it's legible
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They felt very demand-y.

 

I'm here but I'm avoiding the thread. The experience here has been...less than pleasant so if you wanna accuse me of avoiding the thread and this game then you'd be right. I have no new reads other than to clarify the point I directed to DC...

I scumread you because I misread your interaction with "you". However you said I had stopped scumreading you when I hadn't (because I had still misread your read on "you".) When you accused me of "slinking away from a read" it screamed of a scummy intent because it was a damned if you do, damned if you don't approach...

People misread stuff all the time and can change especially quickly in those circumstances: but since I never mentioned that I had stopped scumreading him then it looked like he was just laying a trap.

This could be my last post of the day. So take it for whatever.

 

(we probably should entertain worlds where lulz is town at some point today; that’ll be my homework when I get home)

 

Fascinating how you only quote four of the twenty-nine posts I've made this game. Nice narrative framing.

I can happily link you to every single game in recent memory where I have reverse ordered my walls. I do this every game that I play in exactly because everyone else orders their walls top to bottom town to scum. I leave them uncolored and unexplained most of the time and sometimes go so far as to vote against the listed order to bait other users and see what reactions I can generate from it. It worked hella well against Fonti of all scum players in Mimefia and she knows how I operate with these things. I'd like to know why you call me out as lying about the ordering?

Incredible. I think you're full of shit when you say you were townreading me and not attacking me in those early posts. That's the sense I got from you and why I started to scumread you. I think your partner lulz blew his cover and you're spinning like a flat earth theorist to cover up for him and not address his mistakes with a critical eye but just breezily wave them off.

And the fact that in the midst of all of the lulz-dC-Zenzao incident last night you chose to target Vaimes of all people with your vote, with no reasoning whatsoever, only further strengthens that assessment for me.

@lulz, get over yourself and request a replacement if you don't want to stay in the game with the better part of a day remaining. You never addressed my post calling your out on your change with regards to me as being artificial. See here

 

I’ll reread his scumgame just to be sure, but Zenzao is like 95% town here.
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Do I have too many townreads? I feel like I have too many townreads.

I don’t want to lynch: Zenzao dC Tammy
fluff: is fluff
I’m meh about: *you Gemma
I’d lynch: Cobalt lulz

fluff is missing. He’s meh leaning town. I’ll go back and give him his own section.
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Maybe not scum?

Unvote, vote Cobalt

 

Well that answers that. I was just coming in here to ask you to talk about cobalt.

 

'You', where did you get the notion that I am a confident player as either alignment? I've pulled scum twice in about ten games over the past several years, and the latest time with Vaimes in our last game together he pegged me for scum as soon as my first post. Faking town interactions when I know other players are innocent was a hell of a lot harder than posting as I usually do when I actually am town and have to work my way through blindly.

I never RVS. Ever. My first post and subsequently most games first vote is always serious. I don't like casting random votes. I like having reasons, regardless of how minor the infraction may appear on the surface, to back up my vote. I would have liked more than two posts to go off of for this game but no one else was posting at that point, and I found it suspect anyway that fluff followed up Tammy's vote on Gemma right out of the gate as I explained at that time.

I do agree here that Gemma was just as serious as I was when she started to post, and I'm going to get into those soon.

I posted part of, yes, in 132. I started at 11 am when I woke up yesterday and paused, then had the notion to post my reverse wall and see if I could gauge some reactions from it, and after 5 pm I just started going back to work on the chain of quotes. When I addressed Tammy in 132 for some of what I agreed with her about it was mostly on why I felt Vaimes wasn't acting the same as I've known him, and I pulled those quotes and otherwise from the chain. I still have the rest in a wordpad file to finish on today.

Why because I've learned its rude to Garcia. What is that I think its bullshit and a veiled attack against me.

It makes perfect sense if lulz is your partner that you're do everything in your power to avoid looking at lulz very hard and use an attack of opportunity to target of the players picking a hole in lulz' arguments, Vaimes. You couldn't go after dC without looking like a fool, you might have been able to target me since you think I've been so scummy, but you targeted Vaimes, and I just can't wrap my head around your reasoning if you're a townie sense you ignored everything else going on and explained nothing with the vote.

I could easily say the same of you. You and lulz have been pushing a narrative, and surprise surprise, lulz was caught out immediately.

To which I say, you could have just as easily explained this in the moment instead of sitting on it for hours afterward, and you look all the worse for it because of lulz lying about dC on 'you' and his failed narrative on me.

 

I did mention I didn’t like him a couple hours ago. :V

 

Yeah, you said he felt hollow. I was going to ask you to follow up on that and whether that meant anything, but then you voted him and answered that.
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i'm putting together a final exam right now, so sorry if I'm disjointed. I'll go back to earlier stuff later when I get this taken care of. I also need to reread through the lulz stuff last night and parse it.

 

Just your tone and the way you talk about yourself and your game.

Hmm. Ok. Does this mean you've played about ten games over the past several years? I guess you're newer to mafia than I thought.

Huh. I'm surprised by this I guess because of the way you came out the gate swinging. Also when you were talking about meta with Tammy-i-think, I remember hearing some confidence there. I guess it doesn't matter.

Okay, but there are reasons and there are reasons. If I say I'm serious on page 1, which I do sometimes, I don't really expect people to come at me on page 100 with "Why did your change your mind about your serious page 1 read?" you know? In my view there isn't a black and white between serious and not, it's just "serious enough for now" or "town enough for now" and later come what may.

Thanks for the response. I think I understand you better now.

 

I also still have a headache and got shit for sleep last night, so I'm sorry if I'm bitchy.

 

Alright, fair enough.

Pretty much ten games or thereabouts. I "retired" once after surviving four games in a row a couple of years ago, then again after hammering my own lynch in the last game last year. I came back for this game mostly because Jarizok pinged me and it seemed like fun again. By and large I go a lot of months between games but I wouldn't say I'm "newer" to mafia.

As I said, only two games have I pulled scum. I did have confidence going into that last game that I could fake it, but I screwed up at the start and as that game went on. As for the coming out of the gate swinging part, it's a habit I developed playing with Mathblade over the years(see blue and orange mentality for a gist of our interactions).

Alright, I get what you're saying. But I have held a page 1 read for the better part of a game based off of a supposed tell by another player before(Mathblade, Narutomafia).

Mm. I still have you on my list to cross-examine once I'm done with Gemma.

 

I scum read you because scum you made a scum attack on town Newcomb because of your accusation of him copying his first posts from the pre-rerand game and him complaining that he couldn't do his reaction test again as being scum motivated and over-explaining.

You were scum. You knew he was town. You knew he wasn't doing what you accused him of doing because you were scum and you knew he was town.

Your attack on him was fake.

That has absolutely nothing to do with reading comprehension issues. YOU spun a scum narrative, you didn't misunderstand anything. I didn't scum read you for misunderstanding him or not getting his slang or any of the other issues you had with trying to comprehend him that game.

I scum read you for the scum narrative you yourself created.

Would you have been bothered by newcomb and what he did if you had been town in that game, maybe. But you can't know you would have gone about it and created the same argument if you had been town that game and were actually trying to read his alignment.

I further scum read you because your scum hunting felt fake. You felt like you knew everyone's alignments already and weren't actually trying to assess them. I don't see how that in any way is reading comprehension issues.

That might not be an issue you normally have, and I in fact pointed that out as a thing that felt odd. Because you are very competent scum and you can sound like you're actually scum hunting when you're not. THAT was what led me to think you might be the symp because you not sounding like you were actually scum hunting didn't make sense to me when I know you're capable of it.

And I just want to point out here that it's a bit disingenuous to chide us for expecting you to behave like you did pre-September because you don't have those skills anymore, but then in the same breath say that that particular skill (scum hunting as scum naturally) is one you don't have trouble with. And by the way, skills are one thing and yes can be lost with life events, rustiness, changes etc, but the things that I have trouble with you this game are behavioral and personality dependent, not skill level.

People misunderstand things and each other all the time; I'm not going to scum read you for not understanding someone or getting something wrong, and i never did no matter what you want to tell yourself or discredit me for in the process. Which if you scum being manipulative is a-okay, but if town is quite infuriating.

I don't think that just because I got you right in that game that I'm going to get you right always, and in fact wrote in that post you decided to ignore half of for manipulation purposes that I'm not sure if part of my concern about you is lingering from that game and how nobody believed me that you were scum there for so long. Why I felt like you felt similarly to the last game even before your interaction with gemma was because of your entrance. You went after fluffy immediately, which was an easy target and I was concerned that you felt like you had to go after someone early because it looks so protown to go on the offensive early and therefore you felt you had to. That was somewhat tempered by you saying later that you didn't really have anything negative so far, but I wondered if town-you wouldn't feel like they needed to lay down a serious vote right away.

And the reason I asked you if you thought you tempered your reads more as scum than town, which you misunderstood by the way. It's fine that you didn't get what I was looking for; I was kinda vague on purpose because I wanted to see what I would get without drawing you exactly to what I was looking for was that I get the sense that you feel a bit more definitive in your reads when you're town than when you're scum. Whereas when you've been town before you're like this persons is town, here's why, not a lot of qualifiers. And I'm wondering if when you're scum, you add the qualifiers more often. Like in that last game, it felt like you were giving your reads space to change them if necessary. And no I don't think this kind of thing is naturally scummy but is person dependent and is something I was working on regarding you personally. That answer you gave didn't help, but thank you for answering it.

The reason I thought your response about Zenzao felt off was because in the elections game your immediate reaction to someone opening super early with seriousness was to call them out for being serious on page two. Later when talking about their serious behavior you did point out that you had heard that some people have a harder time getting into things at the beginning of the game when scum so will go serious. And when asked what you thought of that person's alignment in particular you waffled because you could see it as him trying to look busy early and you could see it as him just trying to get started early. So when your reaction to a similar situation is so widely different than how you've reacted before, yeah I'm going to notice it. And the reaction has nothing to do with skill level; it's a behavioral thing. Do you have to react the same exact way? No, but it was different enough that it stuck out.

I would like for you to finish reading my response to you and respond to it though. I don't appreciate you or anyone else making me feel like I'm supposed to coddle you in games and not scum hunt you or ask you questions. I don't think I have been mean when I have scum hunted you and I've tried to understand where you're coming from even when I think you're scum. I care about you as a person and I don't want to misread you. I do read you based on your stances and the things you say in thread. When you are telling someone they are doing something it doesn't look like they're doing, I'm going to point it out.

 

Oh, he was just saying that to fluff to keep up the ruse, nevermind lol.

 

Official Vote count 1.3

lulz (2) : Zenzao, Cobalt
Gemma (2): Tammy, you
you (2): dC, fluff
Cobalt (2): Gemma, Vaimes
Zenzao (1): lulz

Soft lynch is 5 votes, hard lynch is 7.

Day ends in 28 hours and 35 minutes.