SI stands for self-insert. That's me as Ned. And I've read the books.

But that doesn't mean all that knowledge is useful to me, given how much the world was changed (I threw dice for a lot of things, because I don't want my own bias to drive the narrative to where I want it, even if only subconsciously) and I don't have eidetic memory, so that doesn't mean I even remember all of what I've read.

And the stuff before the first line break? That's just a way for me to be thrown into the ASOIAF world. I just thought it'd be a nice way to be placed into a world without the usual method of simply waking up in someone else's body. Plus, it ties into something later on, which is spoiler-y.

It's a very selfish premise, I'm afraid.

Survive.

Also, keep the Starks alive and away from southron shits.

It sounds very simple, I know, and it is, in some way. But to survive in Westeros as a noble, even in the North, isn't really all that easy.

Were you hoping for something that ties into the possible arrival of the Others several decades in the future? Afraid to disappoint, but that won't be happening. It isn't why I started writing this fic.

 

Right up there in the first piece, the SI does a trick where he disguises himself as older Ned and knows how to manipulate the ethereal space they're both in.

Edit: Implying I don't know what SI means is ... annoying.

Edit2: Holy fuck Odran stop selling your fic and answer my fucking question lol.

 

Oh that. Just mind games. Don't think much of it, it was just there in the start and won't be featured in the future. It was all a dream. Except the bit where I trick Ned into dying and me taking possession of his body.

 

What else do you take an infantry heavy force against another army for? Bite on the fringes of the Lannister host and do what? The enemy also gets a vote. Perhaps he merely wished to delay fighting Tywin Lannister unless he had a significant advantage in numbers?

The whole situation with the Lannister marching all the way in was by GRRM's making.
For some reason Robb did not want to face the larger army head on, and in case of retreat he would have trouble falling back too.
I am just supporting the plan that was an alternative to fighting decisive battles.It has merits too. The immediate situation was getting his family out of captivity. What exactly was the plan after the Riverlands I do not know. Besiege KL? Probable perhaps, but it is far off.

The situation he went in had the Riverlands completely scattered. There would be always problems unless the Lannister were wiped cleanly. Blame that they were in such a bad situation to begin with, not that any one plan was definitely going to give results.

 

Please explain to me the difference between Bolton meeting Tywin in the field and Robb meeting Tywin in the field.

What the flying fuck are you talking about? Robb's plan wasn't an alternative to fighting decisive battles. He explicitly told Bolton to go meet Tywin in the field.

I don't care about the situation. He was in it, that's life. But when making political decisions like the one at the Twins, he needed to weigh his possibilities against his needs. GRRM did so in a HUGELY unsatisfactory manner when he didn't have Robb really consider all the possibilities, which makes Robb look retarded if you start looking at the situation with any depth.

 

The idea was to have Tywin Lannister march away from his other host. A defensive battle could be fought by an infantry force if it wished to, provided the numbers are fairly even.
What happens if before the two hosts combined?

Giving so much away for a bridge (somehow the only bridge along the river) was politically useless, I agree on that. What I am pointing to is that getting into make or break battles is hardly sensible when getting a more certain plan is on the cards.

 

...what?

"A defensive battle" isn't somehow any less of a decisive field engagement - yes, Robb wanted Tywin to be unaware of his move on Riverrun, but he did this by sending his army right at Tywin. You are pretending this "defensive battle" somehow isn't a pitched battle, and that's ridiculous. We literally saw this in canon. Bolton's army got wrecked, and if Tywin had followed he would have prevented him from reforming it and smashed the Northern host beyond immediate repair. Tywin won. Robb's series of gambles are the only reason he didn't follow.


What hosts are you imagining would be combined? Robb and Roose, which actually just barely outnumbered Tywin? Tywin and Jaime, who were unaware of Robb and yet didn't combine - because duh, they have different objectives and that would break the siege?



You're saying that Robb avoided make or break battles, and that he had a more certain plan in the cards. Those are both wrong. His battle involved crippling his army and getting it involved in a pitched battle, while taking a gamble with his other forces - by it's very nature not a certain plan. An option, sure, but not an obviously superior one the way you are presenting it as.

 

Robb at the time had the goal of getting his father back, all out war was probable at this point but not necessarily certain. Keeping his army in being while moving closer to King's Landing lets him influence his father's fate, hopefully he'd relieve Riverrun, pull together the Tully armies with his cavalry force and present a sufficient threat that some face saving fiction can be invented to send Eddard, Sansa and Arya back north.

Eddard dying changed his strategic goals, and the acclamation by his bannermen forced his hand. However his initial plan was get south as fast as possible with as many men as possible, and the Frey marriage was a means to that end.

He could have done better, but that would have required foreknowledge and dramatic expertise that a teenager shouldn't be blamed for not having.

 

Those goals still don't mesh with what he did though. If you intend for them to act as a fleet in being, you don't send your unsupported infantry to get mauled, you hold them back and force Tywin to react to what he thinks is your whole army.

That's fundamentally my issue. He apparently didn't want to risk a single confrontation, so instead he...sent them into that confrontation anyways, with less support plus the hope that if his other gamble pays off they won't end up getting rekt even if they lose.

 

Grrm's understanding of medieval warfare leaves a lot to be desired. People and armies do things that make no sense. Most of all the ironborn attacking the north, when the lannisters are getting their ass beat because "plot"

 

That's the thing about ASOIAF fanfiction. The setting is extraordinarily contrived, and the history of the place just doesn't match up to the present of the story.

Lots of GRRMs decisions in Robb's plot line can be explained away with a "he's a boy so green he pisses grass" but like Cxjenious said, it all falls apart with Ned, and that's nothing compared to Robb's advisors. They should have known better.

I always explain away the ironborn as being far too salty for their own good. The Starks held Theon, and even if Balon didn't want Theon anymore, that's reason enough.

 

Ned's the exception not the norm when it comes to Starks though. Raised by Jon Arryn and all that.

 

Jon Arryn and Eddard Stark do not behave the same on any level. Eddards character is pretty in line with what we see with most North men. What he doesn't seem to have is a Lords mind set which screws him over a bit.

 

It is not like all those scheming and intriguing lords far any better (baring a few very rare exceptions)... Everybody in ASOIF screws up, the only difference is how.

 

I was under the impression that Robb did not send off infantry under Bolton to get massacred but to convince Tywin that entire Stark army is at Ruby Ford and perhaps to draw him from his fortified position there, not to fight there and Bolton decided to fight against Tywin on his initiative whilst trying to send his rivals to death.

Let´s look at the results: Northern army exhausted by night march before the battle, Wylis Manderly and Harrion Karstark captured by enemy, Medger Cerwyn and male Hornwoods dead, Bolton army almost undamaged. Hornwoods neighbours of Bolton, their demise allowed Ramsay to begin his shenanigans in the North. Karstarks, Cerwyns neighbours too, loyal to Starks. Manderlys loyal too, familial bonds to Hornwoods.

 

I agree with Myrza. TBH I always felt Bolton was already plotting as early as AGOT with the forced march. Maybe not so much the whole become warden of the north overthrow the stark thing... but using his position as a chance to weaken rivals.

Robb's move regarding riverrun was brilliant. Theres a reason its viewed as the pinnacle of his success by his allies and enemies alike. He essentially destroyed... wiped out... an entire army, captured a ton of knights, rescued riverrun etc. Its even more of a brilliant tactical move when you consider that with edmure a captive and his army routed who knows how much longer the riverlords would have stayed in the fight without some sort of victory from Robb.

A couple of points regarding the bolton side of things: First off, you've gotta remember in a medieval society like this, foot and horse arent treated or viewed the same. I only throw that out, because that plays into the decisions here.

As to Bolton, if it had been any other commander leading robb's forces I suspect they would not have engaged and played more cat and mouse with tywin. Who knows.


Robb's mistake IMO wasnt splitting his forces and going to riverrun first. It was 1) Bolton in charge (understandable he made it though with Cat approving of it. 2) Not going after Tywin directly after the win at riverrun

Even then his second mistake is KIND of understandable. With hindsight it was a huge error not to go right for Tywin and see if you could end this thing in one go. But hindsight is 20/20. I would give Robb the edge on Tywin after the battle of the camps, but hardly a sure thing.

At the time, his view is KIND of understandable. Side-step Tywin, take out the new army gathering at oxcross. Meet up with the ironmen to try and take lannisport... and then force tywin to retreat and fight on your terms as opposed to marching on a fortified position of his.

Obviously the weakest part of all this was his mis-reading of the ironmen. Forget theon himself being a traitor... his misreading of the situation thinking there was a real chance Balon would back him and committing to a plan relying on the ironmen before he knew which way they would jump. I suppose he had to do something and rolled the dice/trusted his 'brother.' But to my eyes thats where robb really goes wrong. The one true error of judgement there is no excuse for.

The move west ends up bad for other reasons too... obviously it gives Tywin time to crush Stannis, forge the southern alliance, etc. But that I give Robb a pass on since to try and predict the chain of events that lead to tywin the tyrell's allied isn't fair to expect of someone (Renly loses to stannis.... stannis marches on KL and gets crushed by tywin/tyrells.. changing the board in a few months from every great house hating the lannisters to facing the entire south).

Anyway yeah. My read of the situation for what it's worth

 

Hello all.
Stumbled upon Malevolent and without form by SecondStarontheLeft

This is a nice interesting short fic. Elia Survives! isn't a new concept, but I found it a fresh take on what could happen to Jon Snow and the Starks afterwards. I find it a kind of antidote for all the fics and fandom that dismiss Elia. Lyanna and Jon Snow fans may not enjoy it so much, however. I don't particularly care for Jon and I felt bad for him.

The same author also has a collection of AUs. There are a lot of genderbent AUs. My favorite stories include the one where Baelor Breakspear lives and the one where Stannis is the firstborn brother.
Alea Iacta Est

I know some thought that The Open Way had lost its spark. The time skip in the third act and the most recent chapter (with a brand new POV) has me very interested, however. I'm actually looking forward to the next Jon chapter.

 

Not a bad fic, but I'm not fond of the way the author just brushes off the Baratheons with the "erased" comment. What does that mean? Were Stannis and Renly executed? And yet, the Lannisters are still alive and well as they can be. Cersei has married a Marbrand and there's mention of Tywin despairing over Jaime's loyalty to Elia and Rhaenys. Why the hell would they be spared and Renly, a child, wouldn't?

Also, in one of those AU oneshots, fem!Robert gives Rhaegar plenty of children (including an Aegon, Rhaenys and Visenya), yet Rhaegar elopes away with Lysa Tully because - yeah, I'm not seeing the reasoning here.

And that last one, where Lyanna lives, and the realm knows that she went willingly, is shit. Predictably, it demonizes Robert. It's written so that Lyanna ran off with Rhaegar just to not be with Robert. No, seriously, that's what it says. Seriously, why the fuck do so many ASOIAF fanfic authors demonize Robert Baratheon?

 

Bobby B. is the medieval equivalent of the frattiest bro that ever did live. (Maybe he takes second to Aegon the Unworthy)

 

Bryndentully on AO3 has written some decent stuff, particularly in the name of the mother, defend the young and innocent where Barristan decides he owes Westeros one last quest.