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Avengers: Endgame (SPOILERS)

Discussion in 'Movies, Music and TV shows' started by ScottPress, Apr 22, 2019.

  1. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign –§ Prestigious §–

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    Per @Jon's instructions, here's the thread for Endgame. I haven't seen it yet, obviously, but we can have the thread already up.
     
  2. Celestin

    Celestin The Cursed Child

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    I read the early, not fully confirmed, summary and the opinions about it.

    Assuming it's real, I'm curious if all these complains from the most involved fans about certain decisions of the writers will remain once the film is actually out. The general public who don't question every single thing will probably love it.
     
  3. Jeram

    Jeram Elder of Zion DLP Supporter

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    Well, I've now seen the movie, so what were these complaints?
     
  4. Erotic Adventures of S

    Erotic Adventures of S Denarii Host

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    Just saw it.

    8.9/10.

    Top tip: There is no post credit scene, so dont hang around.

    Went to first screening, 4 scenes where the whole audience cheered, a few laughs, and wont lie, almost cried at the end.
     
  5. PomMan

    PomMan High Inquisitor

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    I wont lie, I actually did cry at the end. I dont have a critical opinion about it yet, only just left the theatre, but I enjoyed every moment of it, didnt see the twists they made coming, and will probably see it 2 or 3 more times before its out of theatres.
     
  6. Heleor

    Heleor EsperJones

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    Really? That's a tip worth sharing in the non spoiler thread if so!
     
  7. Fatality

    Fatality Unspeakable

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    Yeah, there's no post credit scene which annoyed me at first for breaking tradition but after thinking about it, makes a certain kind of sense. End Game is essentially the post credit scene for the whole MCU, and it would somewhat take away from the impact of wrapping up so many storylines.

    Which leads me into what I thought of it overall - which means spoilers, I won't tag it because this is the spoilers thread. I enjoyed it a lot, it was a huge spectacle and I was nearly in tears seeing the climactic battle with everyone coming back to fight Thanos together, such massive ensemble shots that looked straight from the pages of a comic book. Not a huge fan of how they handled Cap's retirement, it has some pretty bad implications for the timeline (did Cap leave the Hydra and Bucky situation entirely alone hiding in Peggy's house that whole time? Did he hook up with his niece?) and I'm not a huge fan of some of the time travel stuff in general, despite it leading to great moments like Cap v Cap. I guess however he was written off would be weird short of heroic death.

    Not a huge fan of what they did to Thor and his character development but I'll reserve some judgment for Guardians 3, Asgardians of the Galaxy. Confused about what the Black Widow movie will be about now also, prequels are generally not my favourites.
     
  8. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign –§ Prestigious §–

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    People who already saw it: without details, is there permadeath? I know comics have a bad habit of rezzing every character a 1000 times, but as far as this movie, do people die and stay dead?
     
  9. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter

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    Just saw it in 3D IMAX! Not 'real' IMAX I think, but still damn nice. Spoilers ahead.

    @Fatality - His niece? I thought that woman from Cap2 & Avengers3 was Peggy's niece, not his? And he never married Peggy, did he? Confused there. Also I didn't really recognize that actress - I had a moment of thinking it was Black Widow before realizing that didn't make any sense.

    Personally I liked Cap's ending... but I didn't like that he gave the shield to Falcon instead of Bucky. Falcon is already, well, Falcon - he's not got the super powered abilities that go with being Cap like Bucky does these days. And where is the hammer? Old!Cap didn't have it with him but he definitely took it to the past when he went.

    I'm not going to ping ScottPress because I'm about to drop spoilers in the spoiler thread to answer his question. I'll PM him to say that yes, there is permadeath.

    So let's see...

    Gamora. Thanos killed her and that version of her - from our timeline - is staying dead. Her sister appears to have joined up with the Guardians in her place. I had honestly expected the alternate!Gamora to hang around but I guess she got 'snapped' by Stark there at the end? Bit of an odd end there, since she'd have probably joined up with Quill again even if she wasn't on board with him just yet.

    Stark. I'm liking his storyline and his death. I'd guessed he'd end up with a kid due to that line in Avengers 3 when he's talking to Pepper, but I wasn't sure how that would mesh with both my expectation that he'd die and that he'd still be alive to raise her. I was twisting myself in circles trying to come up with a prediction - what they did worked nicely for me.

    Captain America isn't dead but... anyone else have the impression he was about to be? Or at the very least he's out of the spotlight now. So he's not dead but I expect a movie quite soon will either have his funeral or show that he's out of the fight now. I liked the idea of his 'end' but it leaves open too many questions so overall I'm unsure there. And as I said earlier, not a fan of Cap!Falcon instead of Cap!Bucky.

    Vision. Never name back. He wasn't killed by the 'snap' itself after all.

    Black Widow. Like Gamora it's implied she's dead for good. I thought for a second that was her with Steve dancing - I swear I couldn't get a good look - but that makes no sense. Granted it doesn't make sense that Peggy would have walked away from the career she had to be with Steve either really. Very curious how his whole 'getting a life' bit worked with whatever timeline he was in. I'm glad she managed to sacrifice herself though instead of Hawkeye, but still wish there'd been some clever plotting that changed how predictable that whole thing was. I wanted her to live and have a movie with Hawkeye as a co-star, who knows what the movie we get will be?

    Loki appears to have not returned from the dead so guessing he's staying that way. But if he pops back up at least there's precedent there.

    Anyone else?

    I didn't mind Thor's characterization changes too much, and I loved that he got to see him mom, but I didn't like him joining the Guardians at the end. I really didn't like that. I don't know why it bugs me so much. He's going to be who he is? FFS he's the King, or at least it always seemed as if he were worthy to be so and wasn't simply playing at it. Did he actually abdicate completely or is this more of a leaving someone else in charge until he's really needed to be there? Is there comic precedence?

    Disappointed that for all the hype about Hawkeye having a bigger role and part it wasn't as big as I wanted it to be.

    Spiderman/Iron Man reunion was touching.

    In my personal opinion they lost the thread of Thanos' characterization right at the end. I didn't like that they had him start wanting revenge and whatnot and planning to just kill everyone and make a fresh Universe with half the people in it. I'd really have preferred if he just thanked them for pointing out an issue and said that when he succeeded THIS time he'd wish that all memories of the lost were lost with them, and kept his whole "I am doing it for the greater good" demeanor.

    Loved the movie. Want to go to see it again while it's still in theaters.

    Edit: I think there was someone at Stark's funeral - standing a bit away from the group, but not Marvel - that I didn't recognize. Anyone have any idea? Shortish dark hair, light skin, didn't see if male/female. Any idea?

    Edit2: Oh, regarding Cap taking the hammer. Makes sense. When Thor was in the past he took it from Asgard. So I guess Cap left it somewhere in the past and it ended back up there, maybe.

    Edit3: Oh, and I legit expected that someone who was originally 'snapped' would come back to life and then get killed normally. That didn't happen and I admit I went in thinking it would happen to someone. Get them back and then bam, lost again, etc.

    Edit4: The 5-year jump ahead took me by surprise and was a masterstroke I think. Everyone went into this movie with expectations knowing that a lot of characters would come back but I don't think everyone expected them to immediately get to Thanos, win, and then still lose and spend five years trying to move on. Changed the entire tone and threw expectations out the window in a good way.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
  10. Jon

    Jon The Demon Mayor Admin DLP Supporter

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    Tonnnnyy. ;_;
     
  11. Fatality

    Fatality Unspeakable

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    My admittedly loose understanding of the quantum zone time travel is that Cap has now been married to Peggy (who yes, was the woman he was dancing with at the end) the entirety of the duration between whenever he arrived back and when he spoke to Bucky and Sam (agreed that I was hoping for Bucky!Cap too, Sam is literally a dude with wings while Bucky at least has a version of the serum). This means Peggy's niece is his niece, and Cap's love interest from Winter Soldier and Civil War was his niece, who apparently didn't know/recognise the man Peggy was married to? I like the scene of Cap being reunited with her for their dance and recognise he had to be written off somehow, but if you sit down and think about how he would have actually had to try to live his life without anyone recognising him, whilst not doing anything about all the bad things he knows are happening/going to happen, it falls apart a bit.

    Again though I'm somewhat confused by the rules of the time travel involved. I mean they killed 2014 Thanos seemingly meaning there wouldn't be a snap to undo in the first place, Nebula killed her previous self and is still around. Could Cap change the timeline or does he need to try to keep things as similar as possible to preserve that one in 14 million chance in winning? I mean clearly he didn't change things cause he's sitting there talking to Bucky and Sam in the main timeline but that must have been an awful life watching Hydra spread in SHIELD, Howard Stark killed by Bucky etc and not be able to do anything. I need time to get my head around all this time travel bullshit maybe.

    Also with regards to Gamora, at the end when Thor entered the Guardian's ship there was a screen Quill was looking at seemingly searching for Gamora. It would seem 2014 Gamora disappeared after the battle and tracking her down will be part of Guardians 3.
     
  12. PomMan

    PomMan High Inquisitor

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    They threw a line in there about how going back to the past didnt change their present or their past, so no, he wasnt messing with his neice. The future he lived with Peggy was not in the past for Bruce/Falcon ext, but it was Cap's future in an alternate reality that he then returned to his from when he felt he'd lived his life, meaning he was free to intervene with anything and everything without ruining his past.

    As an easy example, he'd have remembered being beaten up by himself if it was the same timeline.

    EDIT: @Ched I think that is the teenage version of the kid who Tony crashed into the shed of in Iron Man 3.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
  13. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter

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    I thought it was more than a line - there was a whole bit where they discussed as a group that going back to the past would create an alternate timeline. Nothing they did in the past would change the present is my understanding. Then later the conversation between the Hulk and the Ancient one sort of cemented there.

    My understanding: They went back in time, got a version of the stones, and returned to their own timeline to use them. They then sent Cap back to that timeline to return them, he lived a life there, and then accepted (?) his return to his correct timeline? At first I'd thought he had just wandered out of the trees but in hindsight I thought he lived in that alternate timeline for most of his life. I am not sure which it actually is.

    Regardless of how it actually worked it was made rather clear that time travel didn't work at all like it does in most movies. Going back to the past is your future - you can't use your future to affect your past, etc. Or something close to that is how Banner and Nebula explained it. But in short - no. Whatever Cap did with Peggy in the past doesn't affect how he lived the first time or the people that his other self interacted with. That much at least I think was clear?

    It's overly confusing though, I agree completely.

    @PomMan - That makes perfect sense, actually, regarding the unknown teenager. I can see it in hindsight.
     
  14. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter

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    Oh - and also, that rule about how you can't actually change the past in a way that affects your present?

    Pretty important. Because otherwise every movie in the MCU from here on out would be a massive plot hole of "y u no time travl?"
     
  15. PomMan

    PomMan High Inquisitor

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    So to those who have seen it, what would you say the best moment was in the entire film? Just out of curiousity.

    I'm torn between Tony's last line alive, Tony's funeral, or Cap using Mjolnir and Thor yelling "I knew it".

    I liked the last one in particular given that it adds a bit more to Ultron, with the movement being clearly not accidental, and the implication it has on Cap's character and decision making at that moment.
     
  16. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter

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    Mr Stark! MrStark-MrStark-MrStark! You-wouldn't-believe-what-happened! Do-you-remember-when-we-went-on-the-spaceship? Like-into-space-and-got-in-the-big-fight? Cuz-I-like-fell-asleep-and-then-I-woke-up-and-you-weren't-there-but-DrStrange-was-there-and-he-was-like-it's-been-five-years-and-they-need-us! And--- Oh. This is nice.



    Edit: This is in response to PomMan wanting to know our favorite bits from the movie. I say favorite instead of best because let's be honest, the best one is going to be subjective. I can't in good conscience list anything but that one because it really hit me in all the best ways. I also think most people will name a different best scene. So many good ones to pick from!
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
  17. Celestin

    Celestin The Cursed Child

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    Do they give any explanation in the movie how the world is suppose to manage getting half of the population back after 5 years? Even by the comicbook's standards that's not something they should just ignore in the future films and I'm convinced they will.
     
  18. Lamora

    Lamora Definitely Not Batman

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    I’m just curious how they’ll do the Black Widow movie. Endgame seemed to have her as completely stone dead. Will it be a prequel thing like they did with Solo?
     
  19. Jon

    Jon The Demon Mayor Admin DLP Supporter

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    You can have the tiny one.
     
  20. Nevermind

    Nevermind High Inquisitor

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    ”I am Iron Man.”
     
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