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BBC's His Dark Materials [SPOILERS]

Discussion in 'Movies, Music and TV shows' started by Skeletaure, Nov 3, 2015.

  1. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    My knowledge of HDM is limited to the Wikipedia entries, but I was also surprised by the dimension portal.

    Everything Lyra/Coulter in the episode was great, everything else was just something to get through to get back to Lyra/Coulter. I have no interest in the Gyptians, though I understand they are important to the plot. I do hope Mrs Coulter continues to have lots of screentime.
     
  2. Shinysavage

    Shinysavage Madman With A Box ~ Prestige ~

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    Caught up on the first two episodes, and I'm fairly impressed. Dafne Keen and Ruth Wilson are both very good; McAvoy wasn't really how I remember Asriel being from the book, but I've not read it in at least 15 years, so take that with a pinch of salt. The look of the show is spot on, although reading the thread has made me realise how few daemons there are in background shots. Understandable, and not exactly something I'd missed, but they probably ought to be there. The pacing seems quite brisk at the moment, but we'll see how it goes. It's definitely made me want to watch the rest of the series, whereas I watched it not expecting an awful lot. Not as good as Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell, or The City and the City the other year, but a respectable start.
     
  3. Oment

    Oment The Betrayer DLP Supporter

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    So, forgot this...

    Somehow, Lyra's outburst - which has featured heavily in trailers and the like - wasn't quite as cringe as I'd expected it to be. Decent episode focusing on the Gyptians overall, and I continue to like Lord Faa more than I probably should. Farder Coram was also solid, and I like the increased inclusion of daemons into the narrative. Sadly, they don't speak - which is probably budgetary and all - but I'll take it over the first episode where the absence felt conspicuous.

    Also, that was one dark moment with Coulter on the roof. Sure, it's set to the background of kidnapping, outright suicide (though that was probably avoiding a worse fate), and whatever comes up... Probably 2-3 episodes from now. Still, suicidal ideation? Don't see that every year.

    Not much else to say because this part of the series seems to mirror this part of the book: it's pure set-up and downtime filler. It's needed in series, but it's never going to be the most memorable of episodes.

    Next up: two of the best characters. Can't wait.
     
  4. Nazgoose

    Nazgoose The Honky-tonk ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter DLP Gold Supporter

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    Finally got around to watching this one. Some scattered thoughts:
    With Oment that the outburst felt a lot better than it seemed in the trailers. Overall I really enjoyed it, it's been a slow exploration of the world and I'm loving it.

    I thought splitting the two parentage revelations actually worked really well, and I'm loving what they're doing with Mrs. Coulter. She continues to steal the spotlight from all her scenes.

    Also very pleasantly surprised with Lyra's actress. Child actors are notoriously difficult to make work but she's doing a fantastic job.

    The scene with the Alethiometer was also really good.
     
  5. Oment

    Oment The Betrayer DLP Supporter

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    Episode the fourth.

    More of this, please. Though I will be the first to admit that Scoresby is off in a similar way as Asriel was, and the bar fight felt a little too swashbuckling, Miranda and Keen got on like a house on fire, and the episode in general was just an all-around success. We see Lyra finally being able to pull the wool over someone's eyes again after it's been a couple of episodes of her getting outclassed left (Asriel), right (Coulter), and somewhat center (Gyptians). The bacon stealing was the best example, with Scoresby's exasperation at his bacon being stolen almost palpable. Hester was funny, with the same kind of long-suffering attitude towards Scoresby as Pan has towards Lyra at times, except she leans into it (I wasn't expecting a play-by-play commentator slash buddy hare, that's for sure.) There's some perfectly slick casting for side-characters, notably Lanselius and the Sysselman: the former of which is the right kind of no-nonsense that you'd expect out of a consul to witches and the latter is the right kind of simpering.

    The latter is also Dudley, thanks to ScottPress for pointing that out.

    However, it bears mention that, well, the bears are great. Very visceral, both sight and sound, and the run through town in particular was an example of how much ass they can kick. Plus, we got a defenestration out of the deal, and I love me some defenestrating. Both Iorek's and Iofur's armour are well-executed and a nice contrast to each other: the more ostentatious but gullible Iofur and the more minimalist and stubborn-to-a-fault Iorek.

    Farder Coram is growing on me, with some excellent scenes around Kaisa. I also liked that he (Kaisa, that is) remained in shot every so often in the episode: it's the good kind of background bonus. Faa was a bit obstinate this time around, though.

    Next week, I think we're getting at least partway to Feelsville, population...

    Well, certainly not Billy. Probably.

    Yeah.
     
  6. Nazgoose

    Nazgoose The Honky-tonk ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter DLP Gold Supporter

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    Another wonderful episode with two of my favorite characters from the book: Iorek and Scoresby.

    Speaking of, Scoresby had some of the best scenes in the episode. His opening one had one of my favorite lines from the episode, "That bear saved our lives Hester, we owe him trouble." The bar fight itself was also great, Hester's commentary really made it for me, long suffering yet completely resigned to the trouble her partner gets them in as she chimes in with advice from the sidelines.

    The scene with Farder Coram and Kaisa was also great. His face at the end when she says that Serafina will always support him no matter his path went through such a gamut of emotions that it was impossible to not be moved.

    Agree with @Oment that it was great to see Lyra finally show her mischievous nature and trick people to get her way. It was one of her key characteristics in the book and we haven't really seen it shine so far. It was one of my complaints with how she found out about the Oblation Board. The scene in the book was so much better than just having this rando journalist info dump everything to a kid instead of having her questions start Lyra down the path to finding out.

    Lyra tricking Scoresby was wonderfully done, and her line when he realizes it "What did I tell you about how I play cards?" was absolutely perfect.

    On a broader note, I really like the way that they're developing the world and the different plot lines concurrently rather than finding out everything that happened up to when Lyra intersects with it through exposition like in the book. We had a limited pov there so I can understand why it was that way, but it's great to see them not constrain themselves to it in the show.

    Overall another great episode and I can't wait to see more.
     
  7. Rhaegar I

    Rhaegar I Death Eater

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    Wait, what?

    *One Google Later*

    Holy shit, he is! How the hell did I miss that? And now I'm imagining a Crossover where we find out how Dudley got there.
     
  8. Nazgoose

    Nazgoose The Honky-tonk ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter DLP Gold Supporter

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    Given the parallel words we've seen, it's not even necessarily not canon.
     
  9. Oment

    Oment The Betrayer DLP Supporter

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    I'll subvert this premise to stay in Harry's Surrey, but...

    It had shown up suddenly, when he'd been roughing up George Ballard in the alley behind the chips shop. Plonker shouldn't have challenged him, and Dudley was about to punish Ballard when there was a bark.

    It wasn't like Aunt Marge's dogs. Black, a snout, foot and a half off the ground. It looked familiar, but Dudley knew he'd never seen a dog like it. Wasn't a bulldog like his Aunt's, wasn't a racing hound like one he'd seen at Smeltings.

    Another bark, warning, and he threw his bulk aside to dodge the groin kick Ballard attempted. He landed poorly, breath knocked out of him, and he heard his opponent get up. "Wassamattah Dursley? Attack of conscience?"

    "You're done for," Dudley growled, but he was on the ground and he wasn't stupid. That was a bad place to be. He tried to get up, but he wasn't fast enough, and a kick hit his ankle, hard. "Bastard!"

    Then, there was another bark. A harsh one. Like when Ripper went after his cousin. He saw the dog sprint up, putting itself, herself, between the two teenagers. More barking, and Ballard visibly shrunk, afraid. "Dogs won't save ya next time," he spat, before sprinting away.

    There was an almost satisfied huff that sounded... Human, but he was the only one there, right? Dudley sat up, putting a hand on his ankle. It hurt, but he'd had worse. "Need to tell Mum I twisted it on the pavement," he muttered, before looking at the dog, who was still there. She was now sitting, watching him with... Was that a smirk? No way. Dogs didn't smirk. "Thanks girl," he said, but he didn't extend his hand to pet. She looked like a stray, and aggressive too. "You come here for the leftovers?"

    "No. I came here for you," the dog spoke.

    Dudley's world went black.

    Dog's a Rottweiler, female, name something amusingly pretentious to contrast. She's still not the sharpest tool in the shed, though. Setting is in the weeks after Harry leaves Number Four in OotP. Dementors shook something loose is the divergence I'm going with.

    With thanks to Blorcyn for the sounding board.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2019
  10. Rhaegar I

    Rhaegar I Death Eater

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    Now that you mention, there's a surprising amount of crossover potential with the HDM universe, since it specifically involves the existence of infinite potential universes. Add in a main character who can cut open portals to other worlds, plenty of portals scattered everywhere, and a War that encompasses every possible universe, and it becomes rather to simple to get a crossover with other fictional universes started.
     
  11. KGB

    KGB Headmaster

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    So this is fun. I realised I remember absolutely nothing about HDM.

    So everything happening in the show is a complete surprise to me. It's kinda refreshing since I usually just nitpick the ways shows have been changed from the books.

    It's kinda making me dread watching the Lotr and Whicher shows since I will not be able to enjoy them on this level.
     
  12. KHAAAAAAAN!!

    KHAAAAAAAN!! Troll in the Dungeon –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    My main issue is how heavily exposition laden the dialogue is. Apart from that, the show is really pulling me in, despite my general dislike of Golden Compass.

    The special effects on Iorek are amazing.
     
  13. Oment

    Oment The Betrayer DLP Supporter

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    You'll be happy to know it got nominated for an Annie Award, then.

    So, elephant, room: Will. Which sort of checks out in the timeline: there's an indistinct amount of time that Will and his mother are being harassed by people who want to know about John Parry, and then when Will finally does the thing, he leaves for Oxford - which is a minor difference, he seems to be living there now as opposed to being 40 miles away - in the morning, finds the window to Ci'gazze around midnight, and meets Lyra soon after. She, at that point, has been there for a few days.

    Tl:dr: the universes are roughly around the same point in time.

    A slightly weaker episode than the last one, but still quite good. Serafina, in my opinion, is a good cast, and Farder Coram really hit it out of the park this week, as he's been doing constantly whenever his son comes up in the story.

    And speaking of departed boys... I think they finally gave a good hint at the whole daemon = their human bit, and making Billy catatonic as opposed to his book equivalent's inability to settle and asking after Ratter is a shortcut I don't mind, because it allowed the fairly poignant death scene. As ever: Ma Costa doesn't look like the mental image of Ma Costa, but she's good at selling the bereaved mother. Literally, now.

    The writer for the dialogue in the village had also been on a Dune re-read recently, I can only assume.

    Lastly: the raid. Well-executed, the right amount of suspense, another reminder that humans and daemons go together, and of course, pivotal in the plot. I would've preferred it if they didn't make the subtext into actual text with Lyra mentioning the overcoat, but can't have it all.

    Next week: Bolvangar. Time to cut loose.
     
  14. Selethe

    Selethe normalphobe

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    So I haven't read the books, but I started watching this with a friend who has. I'm seriously impressed with Lyra's actress, Dafne Keen. She was fantastic in Logan as well. The actress that plays Mrs. Coulter was also a stand-out. Before it was made known that Lyra was her daughter, I got the impression from her acting that she didn't particularly like kids, but she was truly fond of Lyra. For some reason. She's also great at incorporating behaviors from her golden monkey daemon into her own when she's upset. It doesn't feel awkward or ham-fisted. You can tell something is up with her, maybe from her experiments, but it's a mystery as to what. Also the way Lord Asriel set Lyra backwards on her bed with her shoes still on then moved the pillow was hilarious. I didn't expect the show to reveal the identity of Lyra's parents so quickly-- those sorts of revelations normally happen in season finales.

    I like the concept of familiars, and the magic is intriguing. I do find the alethiometer a bit OP though. My one real gripe about the show is that the "other universe" scenes are really confusing and feel out-of-place. I wasn't even sure what was happening until my friend clarified it.
     
  15. Oment

    Oment The Betrayer DLP Supporter

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    Forgot this last week...

    I'm torn if ep 4 or ep 6 is best so far, but it's quite close. Bolvangar was as eerie as you'd expect, the effects of losing a daemon really quite pronounced, and the chaos of battle rather well shown for a pre-watershed show. The only real negative I found was that Lyra flopping to the floor was, well, a bit of a flop. Eh, her and half of Hollywood, so it's forgivable.

    Mind you, for all the pre-watershed, that was a neck snap by Ma Costa (and fucking good on her), getting revenge). The Gyptian story is over for now, and I think it was done right in the end. I think it could've been a bit more effective if we'd had a 'was it worth it'-style moment to contrast the losses with the gained children, but that's minor. They were good foils and vehicles.

    Intercision was done right. Contrasting the children with the entirely too cheerful attendant was good - perhaps a plus to not having all the daemons on screen all the time. Mrs. Coulter going berserk and saving Lyra was good - but really, whenever she isn't good, call me - and I loved the interaction afterwards. Lyra tricking her with the spyfly was a bit surprising, but it works with her devious nature and intense dislike. We're seeing that she's a good liar, and that she can pull the wool over her mother's eyes. (Mostly because the latter is reeling, but still.)

    Lastly, the cliffghast fight just worked for me. I'd envisioned them differently (blame childhood games for that, I think), but the way it was choreographed really brought home that Lee is defending a 40 square foot (if that) basket and that these close quarters are really not what you want to be in. It was spooky, it had the right undertone of terror, and it didn't overstay the welcome any. Well done.

    Oh, and Roger's balloon driver quip basically redeemed him instantly.

    I'll leave ep 7's review for later, but I can't wait for ep 8.
     
  16. FitzDizzyspells

    FitzDizzyspells Seventh Year DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    If Ruth Wilson isn't showered with awards for her performances in all these episodes, I'll be genuinely angry.

    Am I remembering this wrong, or is Roger funnier and/or more likable in this adaptation?

    I really need to re-read the books.
     
  17. Oment

    Oment The Betrayer DLP Supporter

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    In the book, Roger has some moments (he mentions he pinched a couple of matches in Bolvangar, the two of them get drunk together in like chapter 3), but there's some adaptational changes going on. I don't mind, I think it plays off of Lyra well and provides a contrast to the more formal / servile attitude he has when confronted with actual authority.
    And, naturally, being likeable is all the better for the moment. Oooh boy, I can't wait for that to happen.
    This sounds incredibly wrong both in and out of context, really.

    Regardless, it's good that they give him a bit of a re-imagining. Being stuck too closely to the source material has its downsides as well, and HDM is quite dense with its info dumps.
     
  18. Oment

    Oment The Betrayer DLP Supporter

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    The penultimate episode:

    Svalbard was not up to standard. It felt empty, hollow, even if Keen tried for all her worth. The fight being inside didn't help either, though I approve of the discretion shot to get around the censors - it is pre-watershed. It wasn't terrible, but it was far closer to episode 2 than episode 4 or 6, if you catch me.

    That being said, the rest was pretty good. Wilson (Will) got a solid performance in: a mix of pre-teenage embarrassment and love for his mother, while Boreal/Latrom was equally up to it with a convincing performance that reminded us that he's definitely capable of playing the antagonist as the Subtle Knife plot unfolded basically as it did in the first few chapters of that book. Will drops his mother off at a trusted adult, goes back home, and ends up committing... I think it's some brand of manslaughter?

    Makes me wonder if we'll get Lyra asking if Will is a friend or an enemy, and receiving the alethiometer's answer of him being a murderer. It's a small detail from TSK, but it always stood out to me.

    Coulter good yada yada, seventh verse same as the first. Utterly deranged at the start, by the way. Lee and Serafina were a bit shoehorned in, but I'm never going to say no to more of those two. No, I'm going to leave that for the last two minutes of the episode.

    "I did not send for you! I did not send for you! [...] I.. did not send... for you."

    Any remaining doubt about McAvoy as Asriel should now be dispelled. By the Authority, that was an utterly chilling delivery of perhaps one of the most important bits of dialogue in the entire first book. His mania is on full display, dismayed when he finds Lyra is here, but then Stelmaria - a snow leopard, I will remind you, and look up their hunting habits - interrupts, and the mood switches to terrifying interest and a cliffhanger, with some gorgeous (if oddly reminiscent of Assassin's Creed: Revelations - logical to some extent I suppose) music in the background. (Balfe has been knocking it out of the park in general.) Could argue that it's a bit too ominous, but penultimate episode cliffhangers are like that.

    Please do it right, BBC/HBO.
     
  19. Oment

    Oment The Betrayer DLP Supporter

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    This is the end, my friends...

    And what an end it was. Best episode of the season, every last one of the (quite limited) cast firing on all cylinders, a gorgeous setting, and it was just a wonderful harmony.

    I'm not sure who was the best one this episode. McAvoy navigated the many layers of Asriel (scientist, idealist, father, and more) amazingly, selling being both brusque (see: what he said about sentimentality) and tender (the chat with the mirrored dialogue about the Bible) both equally well. He is very much 'man who wants to change the world', and it is easy to see Mrs. Coulter being attracted to that, resulting in Lyra. (And the incredibly intentionally jarring scene of the two of them basically being two steps and four layers of clothing away from fornicating right next to a cooling body of a kid. Yes, that's in the book.) I also loved that he pushed the blade down himself in a very "The man who passes the sentence should wield the sword" kind of way. He has no regrets. It's all for a greater good.

    Wilson was Wilson. Loved the tic (self harm, even?) with her daemon on the airship, loved her confident ruthlessness in the cabin and with MacPhail, and the difference between her and Asriel is so small, yet great, in that one conversation. She wants power, but when she is offered the chance to get more in order to wield it against the Authority, she only declines because of Lyra. (Who hates her guts.) Dysfunctional little family, much? Otherwise, another up-to-usual performance from the best damn performer in the entire series.

    Keen put in her best performance yet, easily. She wants to stay with her father - she's wanted that since he was her Uncle - and she wants to stay with Roger. Too bad about what happened, eh? The realisation was great as well, and I look forward to seeing her in another world.

    There were tons of little extra details that also made the episode just that tiny bit better. Roger knocking on the door (in a specific pattern that might've been used before?) then shuffling in backwards amusingly awkwardly and adorably - daemon included. The blanket fort picnic. The Bible exposition in this form. The revelation that it's a bad cop helping Boreal. Will hurriedly refreshing the BBC website and being incredibly skittish. Hell, even the tired old 'rainbow bridge in the sky' was done pretty tastefully - if a tad reminiscent of Doctor Who (then again, it's the Bad Wolf studio). The ending of both protagonists going through their respective portals - as Blorcyn guessed after ep 5.

    It's a good finale. It was done right.

    Praise be.
     
  20. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Not sure why we're spoilering stuff for a book than came out years ago but ok...

    Thank the Authority Roger is dead, the bug-eyed overly-affectionate weirdo. At least now I don't have to sit through any more of his incredibly awkward hugs.
     
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