Possible theory: there is more to the kidnapping of Maggie than revenge. It is a plot to force Dresden to cross that line, and in doing so pit the White Council against him.

 

In my defence:

It seems quite clear things would have been worse without Leah has his godmother. And it would have worked better if he'd known in advance.

As for the White Council... He would've been giving the Merlin a lot of leverage over him by doing something like that. But they must have some way of handling Warden's children during a war. Not really practical for them to live with their parents.

The point about traitors is well taken, though.

 

Uh, we aren't talking about AU fanfics, we are talking about cannon.

No, I actually think that Dresden is pissed off about her not telling him, not not giving him the child. Frankly, I think Susan did the right thing in where she placed Maggie. Normally I would say that she should of told him, but in hindsight, she probably did the right thing in not telling him, as the less people who knew, the safer she was. She was fine until the Fellowship got spies. Something we already know the White Council had.

As already stated, they are not protected from Mortals, and the Red Court has a lot of those. Not to mention, do you really think that Charity would accept a burden that would endanger her own children? Michael would without question, but would Charity? Second, and more importantly, do you really think that Dresden would endanger the Carpenter children more than they already are?

What will happen after she is rescued is hardly worth talking about, we shall see what happens in the book which is released within the month.

Repeat after me IN-FIL-TRATOR. The guy who did all the White Council's paper work was not only manipulating the White Council, but had access to pretty much everything. He was working with the Reds, he would of given them Dresden's Daughter in a second. Sure, he may not of known it at the time, but this is why I say that when you consider hindsight, Susan did the right thing in not telling him either. The less who knew, the better.

 

It's easy to vilify her for it, but I agree - Susan did the right thing for the child. Not necessarily the right thing for Harry, but putting the child first is an instinct all parents (should) develop right away. Harry's feelings, and her own, had to be secondary to Maggie's safety.

Personally, I think that's a conclusion Harry wil come to, but it's going to take a while.

 

Agreed. And that's why this entire mess fucking screams Denarian involvement to me. It's a line Harry never dared cross before, taking up the coin, but I'm thinking at this point, to save Maggie, Harry would do it. Nicodemus has been quiet for too damned long, and that sort of plan would be something he would try.

Also, consider this: if Harry wanted to go into Central America with all guns and blasting rods blazing, typically, he'd want backup. As far as I've heard from the spoilers, Murphy, Thomas, Sanya and Molly come along with Harry for the ride - but not the one non-wizard who has the greatest potential for destruction: Kincaid. Why not? He was with Harry in Blood Rites, and he gets along with Murphy, so it would be a pretty solid team.

Here's my theory: after Small Favour, the Denarians have pretty much made enemies of the White Council with the mess with Ivy, not to mention Kincaid. If Harry takes up the coin, Kincaid won't be helping Harry.

He'll be hunting him.

 

I am not even sure what we are talking about.

I thought we were talking about what COULD have happened IN the Dresdenverse had Susan told Harry the truth from the start. Obviously canon is what it is, but I see nothing wrong with speculating just for fun.

Well, first of all I think he had a right to know so Susan was in the wrong there. I think Harry being angry at this is perfectly rational. I doubt he would have been stupid enough to keep a little girl at his apartment. Likely he would have arranged for somekind of adoption like Susan, but I think he would have had better resources.

Second, the end result does appear to be that Susan's security measures did not work. Could Harry have done better? Maybe. Harry does have access to magic. He might have been able to make up something to protect Maggie from detection with Bob's help. He would have been well motivated. He could also have sought both Thomas and Eb for assistance. Both of them would have been more trustworthy than the fellowship, and better equipped to help protect the child from Vamps.

As for the WC, you assume that had Susan told Harry about this, he would have gone to the White Council and revealed the childs existence in some open way. I don't think Harry would be that stupid, nor did he trust the WC as a whole back then. At best, he would have talked to the few people he trusts such as Eb and LTW. Unless Eb is a traitor(unlikely), it would have been quite safe. Safer than doing what Susan did and trusting some fellowship agent who turned out to be a traitor.

If mortals working for supernatural beings could attack the household, the protection benefit would be utterly meaningless. Remember that Nicodemus has a small army of mindlessly loyal mortal servants working for him. He could easily send them to assassinate Michael and his family, easily neutralising the protection given to retired knights.

That makes absolutely no sense. I figure the protection works kind of like the way Harry used the little faeries to kill Aurora in SK. The act was done by Toot, but since Harry ordered it the responsibility was his. The little faeries were just tools. It seems reasonable to assume that if Nicodemus were to send mortal servants to the house, those servants would be considered a part of Nicodemus and stopped. I figure the same would apply to servants/thralls of the Reds.

The reason the crazy priest guy was not stopped because he was acting alone and of his free will, with no supernatural influence behind him. Likewise, a common burglar would not be stopped, but a burglar sent by Nicodemus would. This is just speculation ofcourse, but it makes sense given what we know.

You are probably right though that at the time Charity would have been very much against the idea. I am not sure if she would be against it right now however. After risking his soul for their youngest child, and his life for their oldest, and after all the time he has spent with them, he is practically family now. I don't think Charity would oppose the idea all that much anymore.

I doubt very much Harry would have revealed the secret to Peabody. He would have talked to Eb, and Eb would have kept quiet. Eb would also have been far better equipped to arrange for the childs safety both financially and with magical protection.

I think it likely that Eb would have done everything in his power, not just for Harry's sake, but also for the sake of his mother whose name the child shares.

 

Hey, guys, Jim just commented on Michael.

 

If I can find it, I will. But I'm generally pleased to find a copy of any Dresden book after Fool Moon in store, let alone in libraries.

 

This pretty much.

While Harry does and did have a right to know, him directly raising a little girl would not have ended well for any of the involved parties. Earlier in the series I honestly don't know if he would have been willing to recognize that, at this point in the series I think he would be willing to accept it, if and only if he had knew from the start.

 

Read it illegally?

 

Really? The Barnes and Noble near my house usually has 9-10 copies of all of the books in at all times, according to the people who work there they sell like crazy so they keep them constantly ordered.

 

As Jim stated, she doesn't know about most of these things, so why would she inform in on the possibility that he may have someone new he can touch. Anyway, you use the words "I think" "Maybe" and so on far too often here, this is all speculation, no fact behind it. Think what you want, doesn't bother me. Fact remains, from what Susan knew, she did the right thing. I stand by that.

Well, we aren't talking about "anymore" now are we? We are talking about at the time, so my point stands. The rest of what you are saying is just speculation, again, I don't deal in speculation, I deal in fact. You have no factual point.

Maybe. Did Susan know about this option? Nope! How could she of considered it?

 

Wow, Harry has better resources then an entire Organization? I didn't know that. I didn't even know he had better resources then me. Mainly because he doesn't.

If Harry could make something to keep the entire Red Court and all of their allies from finding someone, he would have made it for himself. Thomas is, A) an enemy of the Red Court, B) an enemy of large parts of the White Court, C) an enemy of the White Council, D) (though Harry doesn't know this) a fighter in the Oblivion War, and E) a vampire, who could potentially (and actually, did) lose control. Eb kept secrets form Harry for year, is one of the Top Seven targets for everyone who dislikes the WC, and has a job that keeps him busy (and in dangerous situation) most of the time. They are some of the few people capable of saying 'I have more enemies then Harry'.

And the fact that a Senior Council Member now has a kid...won't arouse any suspicion form anyone? They may not know it's Harry's, but they'll think it's important to Eb. Which is probably worse.

While it is at least possible that influenced mortals can't attack, that really isn't important, because Harry has human enemies to, and the protection does apply to Molly, so yeah. And in cases like that, Michael is a cripple, Charity is one woman (who's, like, ten years older the Harry), and the random assorted children are...random assorted children. BAD END.

Eb would probably do all he could for the kid, sure. But that just means they try to use her against Eb, and not Harry. An improvement, that is not.

 

There wasnt, isnt, and never will be any truely safe place for this child as things stand now. If I understood things correctly the kid was put up for adoption. Which would have been about as safe as anything else had Susan and her friends never had any further contact with the kid.

Susan did what she had to do in giving the baby up and it would have been perfectly fine if she had stayed away. But she didnt and was found out. Dresden might be pissed and calm but he is still pissed and not thinking straight. Harry has too much shit going on to raise a child and if he had known he wouldnt have been able to stay away. Harry looking in the kid would have drawn even more attention than Susan doing so.

Yes she should have told him years ago but other than that I dont have a problem with how she handled it initially. Like I said if she had stayed away, everything would have been fine. But atleast it gives Dresden a chance to blow shit up.

 

Since this is what we all want to see, I think debating this further is pointless. Susan did what she believed was right; Harry thinks she was wrong; truth is, there was no right decision. Yeah, she could have told him, but God only knows how Harry would have reacted. Hell, she could have had an abortion and avoided all this drama... but again, bad reactions.

So, Harry is once again stuck in a place where he is about to charge headlong into a bad situation to protect an innocent - which, last I checked, is exactly where we want him to be.

 

She could have terminated the pregnancy. Just saying...

 

Err, isn't that what an abortion means Pers?

 

Not at all! An abortion is aborting the pregnancy. :awesome