Vote Count 1.9
(8 to lynch)

ika (6): fontisian, blab, Titus, Maiden, Rubicon, Riley Poole
Zennith (3): Custer, Titus, Irdiumstern
Irdiumstern (1): Sloth
Riley Poole (1): Citrus

Abstain (6): Zennith, ika, Moridin, Luckylee

 

Unvote to prevent a hammer before I can post again

 

So Rubicon hates freedom :|

@anyone: When's the appropriate time to start asking who's spent gold and who's not?

Uhm. Never? Unless someone claims they used an ability, I think asking about gold is somewhat pointless/scummy.

 

Even at the endgame?

 

I guess if people are claiming it might be relevant, or using abilities. Otherwise it just seems role fishy.

 

Ok.

What's your take on the Fonti/Sloth back and forth Lucky?

 

So far? Fonti has actively been scum hunting, Sloth hasn't. But Sloth has defended himself well, and if he actually presents a decent case or does scum hunting of some sort I'll probably give him a pass.

If Ika is a mislynch, (which I doubt) I'll have to give another look at Fonti for obvious reasons, (she lead this wagon).

If Ika flips scum, then… I don't really see how it connects to Sloth other than the fact that he voted for him. I've got a null read on Sloth atm.

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Other than the fact that Sloth didn't vote for Ika* Hate that I can't edit grammar fuck ups >.>

 

Hmmm.

@Sloth: I noticed you're still voting for Iridiumstern. Why not change your vote at this point?

@Titus: Which of Zennith and Ika are you more certain is scum. Why?

@Moridin: I don't think we've played before, what games were you in prior to this one?

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Talk about editing for fuck-ups have you seen my post on the previous page -_-

 

Riley, why did you just say you refused to bandwagon unless you were convinced and then vote based on bandwagon size?

Your stance wasn't that you didn't think ika was scum but that you didn't want to lynch anyone, which is odd at this point?

Ird, I started with three gold. I did not receive any from Possum.

Ika, your post wall is incomprehnsible to me. Therefore, I am totally going to reask my questions. If ika answered on point and coherently, feel free to Garcia.

1) Why didn't you communicate the fact Zennith could jail?
2) Why didn't you express an opinion on me in jail chat.
3) Why are you speaking differently than your normal tone?
4) Where are your reads?
5) Why did you flail about me derp lynching you at the start, but stop now?

 

@Titus: I voted based on what I read. I didn't want to bandwagon no, but I'd rather vote for someone who the majority feel is solidly scum, then sit out AGAIN and have people (like you) point out that I didn't vote. The only thing worse would have been if I voted for Citrus (as I wanted to do) because then people would point to it as a throwaway vote (meaning I'm trying to fluff my vote count).

Can you answer my question though?

 

Riley, you ninjaed me. I like ika more as scum at this point. Ika has some nagging things why he may not be scum, but he probably is. Zennith I have reservations on due to his early game and association with Zeit but I am keeping an open mind. I also would love to be jailed if Zennith is town. Talking with Citrus and Zennith would be helpful.

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Riley, vote Citrus and make your case on him. Bandwagoning bc it will look bad if you don't just caused me to think you are even more scummy.

 

How in the hell am I supposed to convince 7 people to change their votes at this point when most people already think I'm scummy? At this point I'm really just trying to put as much information on the page as possible before the scum kill me or the town decides I'm a good lynch target.

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Especially considering my luck in the past with outside guesses and non-majority scum choices.

Did you even glance at the linked games I gave?

 

I don't care about meta. FMPOV, town shouldn't care about how scummt they look but if the game is solved. A player off the wagon with strong reasons usually appears town to me if it is a one time deal.

So why is ika town? Why is Cirus scum?

 

WHOA WHOA WHOA

Who said I have a unique power? I have said nothing about my role nor abilities, at least in this chat. It seems like we have a snitch in the jailchat :fire

Vote: Moridin

 

<b>Double vote: Moridin</b>

I totally missed that.

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Double Vote: Moridin

 

Ika is town because I fail to see someone getting the accusations and questions that have been slung at him without feeling frustration. I've been in the same position and it makes me think he's just annoyed that people are pushing so hard on the wrong person.

Citrus is in my opinion playing exactly as he did in Dresden when he WAS scum and yeah I know that's meta but unfortunately that's what I have to work with since I'm a terrible statistical player and prefer to judge based on personality patterns drawn from previous experience.

Citrus is playing a fairly quiet game and does have some input near the beginning but he keeps tapering off into bouts of quietness. That combined with the back-and-forth we had led me to belive Citrus is scum once again. However feelings and instinct don't really seem to weigh in strongly in your playstyle unless they're your own. Which is the norm for Mafia players because why would you trust a random player who might be mafia.

The issue with this is that you then ask for evidence and proof and sometimes there really isn't much to point at and say "Ah Hah! That's why they're scum." My feel for Citrus being scum evolved through a combination of prior observations and common interaction that lead me to a gut reaction of "Scum"

I didn't place my vote for him however because everyone is paranoid as all get out and by placing a vote on someone for a gut instinct I'm essentially giving scum/town a reason to point at me and say "he can't explain why he voted that way for no reason, vote fluffling, lynch him". So I try to be smart and do that which keeps me alive simply because a dead townie is an unhelpful townie.

If this makes me scum in your eyes than you're an idiot and I want to know why.

 

Riley, the question is whether or not ika's frustration is real. Everyone knows frustration should happen, so scum would fake it.

Riley, let's talk about those gut feelings, what felt similar? Why?

What do you think of Moridin's slip?

 

Similar: Quietness, concise delivery. Points are made with some certainty rather than any kind of reluctance or firmness. Citrus basically seems very self assured of his point that I'm scum without any of the usual paranoia that comes with being town.

Therefore either Citrus is: A) Delusional B.)Feels conftown when he's not C) Scum and knows I'm not scum D) is putting on an act.

Of those, I feel that C) is the best option based on meta, because that's exactly how he played in the end of last game.

Moridin's slip is telling but because they're new they might still think that everyone has a PR (which we know is not the case due to Possum being Vanilla Town). I'm not 100% sure on that. We have a whole day to argue the case for/against Moridin so I kind of want Moridin to come defend themselves.

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And I understand that, very much so believe me. However, we're getting into WIFOM territory if we try to lay out exactly how deep a scum would layer reactions. I feel this is genuine frustration, not a laid-out plan.

 

Show me examples pleaseof tonal matching.

I do see your dissonance on the Moridin slip. It looks like you believe Moridin slipped but don't want to sheep your scumread.

 

Prophy, your quotes confuse the hell out of me sometimes. My heart skipped a beat when I thought Lee had hammered this game.

--

…What in the HELL is this? These are one-liners and reactionary moves with NO IN-DEPTH ANALYSIS.
Is this how you play scum? Not even try to play the game or seem less suspicious?
Or are you just being resigned, bored Town? I very much doubt it, but if you are, know that there’s letting yourself be lynch for the good of the Town, and there’s just doing random crap.
I’m juggling Occam’s Razor vs. Genre Savvy here. Ugh. Screw it, we’ll know when he’s lynched.

This is especially idiotic unless you have reason to believe you have a mason of 3. Right now we’re going with the logical assumption that at least one of you 3 is scum. Everything you’re saying over there, they have and Town doesn’t.

@Titus
You were waiting for his Big Read Wall, and apparently…that’s it. What are your thoughts? Does ika play scum like this?

@Everyone
No one else vote for ika until at least an hour before Nightfall. He’s at L-2, and so long as he stays that way, we avoid a hammer. I miss Deadline Votes.

--

@Mori

I’m not following this logic. How is #83 a rolefish? It was mostly mechanics talk, and while you’re right at #160, everyone at the time were making similar posts, so I’m not sure what about his jumps out at you.

That first sentence raises all sorts of alarms, I can’t quite put my finger on why. It mostly looks like you’re hesitant to attack Fonti, or want to look like you are, which makes no sense for a Town. Why did you said it to begin with?

You haven’t voted either – but we are all trying to avoid an early hammer on ika, so it’s understandable why you haven’t voted for him. Is your second read blab? If so, who else could be part of the scumteam in your eyes?
Your only mention of a third party is in regards to Custer’s focus on Titus’ being one. Do you believe there’s a third party in this setting?

--

@Lee
Did Zennith ever say how much gold he had, how much gold his ability cost per night, or even indicate to the status of his gold at any time? If so, I missed it.
If not, why are you assuming he has none? (Only way for you to think he’s ability is now useless.)

--

Actions, louder than words, etcetera.
For example, a good action would have been to try to counter my argument on your slip, rather than just say ‘okay, I do agree upon that’ and back off.
Admittedly, it’s not an easy one to argue by its nature and your previous argument crashed and burnt, but I don’t know why a Town wouldn’t at least try.

Do you have any revised thoughts on Fonti after the last few pages?

Your question at Zennith basically repeats what I said back in #222, before we had a lot of information on him and his role.
Still, that’s actually a valid point.

@Zennith
Refer to #222, you didn’t answer this.

--

@Riley

I agree on Fonti, I mostly think Irdium for the other possibility. Hell, even with ika as scum, Irdium still seems off.

…seriously?

How about you answer my questions now?

Gold questions should only be asked of people claiming as a way to prove their claims.

--

@Blab
You promised a read on my big post. Where are you on that?

@Rubi
You claimed you were going to read back because you felt fooled, and wanted to double-check. Any updates on that? Have your reads changed any?

@Custer
Welcome to my field of vision.
You never gave that long post on Zennith you promised. Have you changed your mind about him? Has he convinced you?
Where do you stand now on Third Party possibilities, now that I’ve shared my thoughts on what could have happened last Night? (Refer to #401)
Thoughts on Irdium and Fonti.

--

@Fonti

So on one corner you had a strong scumread that was active in the game and could poison Town’s minds, as well as a strong following ready and willing to lynch him based on how D1 ended. And in the other corner, you had an equally strong scumread that was relatively harmless at the time and easily dispatched and no apparent following.
And you vote on the least obvious threat. Because you wanted to be nice to the other scum.

Nope. I’m using my history to explain why I know what I’m talking about. It doesn’t stop you from going over all my points and googling them for accuracy.

Huh.

Yes, admittedly, I used it first. You replied using the same term, however, I’m not sure why you wouldn’t claim it wasn’t if it wasn’t. What the above reads to me is you realizing that you couldn’t win that argument with me and backtracking and trying to push the idea that it never was that.

But here’s the thing,

If you do 1+1=2 in your head, you’re doing math, and no one in the world will say that’s not true.
If you take two variables, and try to prove that there’s a relationship between them using a numbers logistic you’re doing statistics. Period.

The variables are “# of posts that ika directed at a certain player” and “% of player’s scumminess.” The variables are not random. The proposed relation between them is.
Your theory: “The higher the #, the higher the %” suggest a positive relationship between the two.
The reason this relationship is random has been addressed in that last post when I talked about reliability, validity, and accuracy.

Most of 4 has your stronger arguments, aside from the statistics thing.
However, I wonder about ika’s scumplay. I’ve seen no games of him in it, and it seems really stupid if this is all he has for it, he’d get caught immediately. Like I said, we’ll know when he flips.
I somewhat disagree on this though, before his stupid Toph move, he was starting to act somewhat like he did here after D2.

Most of these, there’s not much to say. It’s opinion rather than argument so…I might be reading into it too much, but my main target is Irdium. I wasn’t considering you as scum until you kept insisting in twisting everything I did as a scumtell.
The bit about accusing me on Rubicon is pointless: My response is easily “I accused you of doing the same thing when you jumped on Titus, and you claimed that you always think your moves through. So, you never scumslip, but I do? Right.” It goes in circles. However, given the obvious buddying that preceded this, I think your case looks worse than mine.
Distancing how? o.o Back in D2 beginning before anyone ever really picked up on that wagon? When I reasonably thought I was going to be the next lynch?
Again, guilty how? Because I won’t change my vote? Do you remember what I did D1 when it came down to Bill Door in Avatar? I only change my vote if I think it’s needed.

Ignoring the juvenile baiting, these two conflict. Why do I need to elaborate when the next question clearly shows you know exactly what I meant?
It also rehashes what you said about that bit ages ago rather than address what I’m saying now: You came off as cutting me off now, and this time, I didn’t ask for anything.

What do I care what you or anyone else think of Maiden? I make my own choices, and you know it. I tunneled the hell out of Titus when I thought she was scum. I did not vote Bill Door because I wasn’t convinced.
I decide if someone is Town in my eyes. No one else does it for me.

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...Bleh. I didn't realize there were more post after the first post in this page. Reading up.