Were you talking about the first part or second part of my post. If it's the second, you're right. I looked it up.

 

Yeah it the second bit. Well this is getting me in the mood to reread Cold Days again. Thanks Glimmervoid.

 

We have the merlin, Blackstaff, warden and gatekeeper. ANyone else think there might be 3 other position on the senor council that are named.

He cant take mantles for some of them. If he killed fix, he wouldnt get SK mantle, he has to be inline for it or given it. ALso, while he could kill the individual monster, their mantles would survive and most likely escape and find a new host. They were placed that as they could do the least amount of harm there.

 

Your logic doesn't really flow.

We know the Blackstaff doesn't come with a Senior Council seat. McCoy was the Blackstaff a long time before he rose that high.

Second, there's no evidence in the books that the Warden post ever came with a position on the Senior Council. Given that Anastasia Luccio (the Captain of the modern day Wardens) doesn't have a post on the Senior Council and the first Merlin (who made Demonreach) already had one, I find it unlikely.

Third, both the Merlin and the Gatekeeper are consistently referred to using their titles, while the others are not. That makes me doubt they have titles on the same scale, roles or jobs, maybe, but nothing on the scale of the big two (or three if we add the Warden).

 

Odds are that the name for the "wizard police" of "Wardens" originally came from the White Council deciding to emulate the title of (true) Warden which is the title of the person in charge of Demonreach. However there is nothing so far to suggest that the position of Demonreach Warden is in any way linked to WC. Infact the position seems to have been vacant for who knows how long, until Harry proved himself to the island and got the job.

So while the senior council atleast is likely (mostly) aware of the purpose of the island and chose to emulate the name of the guardian of the island (warden) for the guardians ofthe wc, I doubt there is any further connection between the council and Demonreach beyond that.

Infact the island seems to choose its own Warden, so if a senior councl member wanted to become a "True" Warden, I doubt the island would care that the person in question was senior council. I think the island would still test him/her, and those tests might not be easy to pass. We should remember that Harry somewhat cheated by having soulfire to significantly aid him when the island tested him. I also suspect that Demonreach may know about Harry being a Starborn and that he has power over outsiers, and as such have actually had some real interest in having Harry as the current Warden, potentially taking it easy when he tested Harry. Interest that a random seniour counil wizard would be unlikely to receive however.

It should be said that merlin is just the title given to the leader of the council. And thats in honor of the original Merlin. We don't actually know if said position has any significance beyond that.

As for Gatekeeper, while that is how he is known, I am uncerain how much it is a title and how much a "nickname" of sorts. Rashid himself stated that the Council does not know all that much about the roles Harry and Rashid have. Tha seemed to imply that the White Council does not actually know that Rashid is battling outsiders alongside an army of winter everytime he is absent for longer periods of time. Not the full extent of it atleast. And if they don't know that, then obviously there cannot be anykind of official position for that. Or if there is, then what the WC thinks the Gatekeeper does, and what the Gatekeeper does in truth are entirely separate things.

And as was already said, Eb was the blackstaff before he became senior council, so that cannot be a council position. Heck, we don't even know for sure how long there has been a blackstaff. That position is only possible due to the unique artifact that allows the blackstaff to use dark magic without going insane. However we have WoJ that the council stole that thing, so obviously at some point there was no blackstaff position.

Oh and as as sidenote, its about 95% likely that the blackstaff is actually the walking stick of Mother Winter that was mentioned in the latest book as preventing MW from really moving or leaving the cabin. I would bet that sooner or later, we will have Mother Winter give Harry the assignment of finding and recovering his walking stick, putting Harry into direct conflict with his grandfather and mentor Ebenezar.

 

WoJ says the blackstaff isn't mother winters if I recall correctly.

 

I'm half convinced it's the Daghda's club, to be honest.

I don't think there's been WoJ on it aside from "it was stolen from someone powerful and they want it back" though.

 

Really? Where? I would really love to see it, considering that in a recent signing Butcher basically 95% confirmed it by saying that most had already guessed where Mother Winters walking stick is (and everyone on his forums thinks its the blackstaff).

 

We all seem to believe harry will end up with the Blackstaff, but will the staff stay in wizards hands in the end or get sent back to original owner?
Does the council really need a Blackstaff?

 

I really hope Dresden doesn't end up with the Blackstaff. It would make Butcher's 'Dresden breaks a Law of Magic every book' idea worth a lot less. And really, I like that Dresden thinks the Law of Magic have moral force as well as being a product of metaphysics.

I know some people think McCoy's journals are some how connected to the Blackstaff (and hence, Harry is next in line) but I never bought into that. To me they seem to be just what they were presented in Turn Coat: inherited journals, passed down the line of master and apprentice. There's no reason to add the Blackstaff to the mix. If nothing else, I imagine the Senior Council would what to choose their own hatchet man, not just take whoever the last one trained (an almost warlock in Harry's case when McCoy took him as apprentice).

 

I think that's just you, syed.

 

So he wont get the BLackstaff, but he will get the journals. AS the blackstaff, McCoy will know the most about dark magic as he is the only one capable of using it safely. Wanna bet Harry will be able to use that knowledge to wield grey magic, similar to how he used Sue the T-rex to wreck the Hallow ritual? His mom was famed for it, and we can guess where she got the basis for it?

 

Where is it mentioned his mom is famed for grey magic? IIRC all we know is she had some shady friends and knew some interesting Ways.

 

She's not famous for "grey magic".

She is however famous for being loudly critical of the Laws of Magic and the enforcement of such.

 

I think you are thinking of this in Turn Coat. As Agayek said, she did this because she disliked the way the Laws of Magic worked. She was "furious that ‘the Laws of Magic have nothing to do with right and wrong.’"

 

I guess I shouldn't have tried to make sense of Syed's post.

 

Out of everything she knew, she gave lea her knowledge of the ways to pass to harry when the time was right. THe ability to walk the realms so easily would be increadibly valuable, but how does it really help him. You would be amazed what knowledge can be hidden in a map.
To

Spoiler

dance as close to the edge of breaking the Laws as she possibly could whenever she got the chance

, she had to be very good at magic, and be able to realise what would corrupt and what would not? I was thinking, wizards are all about knowledge, their name meant "wise", and her own father kept journals, so where did she keep her records. She knew the bad guys were after her, and her kid would need help so magical knowledge to turn their dark magic against them would be great.

 

I just don't see it. There's a difference between thumbing your nose at the Laws and engaging in true black magic. Without some kind of special focus, (i.e. Blackstaff) just using that kind of power warps you badly. From what we've seen of Margaret, she was a gadfly, but still a decent human being. I believe it's mentioned several times that indulging in black magic changes you into the kind of person who would enjoy using more black magic.

A person like that would definitely be marked as more than just "Oh, keep an eye on 'em."

 

At the very least she has broken the Seventh Law by learning about the Outer Gates, though it seems to be understood that just stumbling over them is not a decapitation worthy offence. I'm still not convinced her putting a message in Thomas and Harry's souls wasn't some form of Neuromancy either, though it too could be skirting the edge of the Third/Fourth Laws.

She danced close, but it's uncertain whether she actually violated any of the Laws. As well as that, breaking the Laws does not immediately and irrevocably turn you evil. If it did Harry would have died a long time ago to Morgan's sword.

 

Well I understood it as breaking the Law is not in and of itself evil. It's meaning to do so that corrupts you.

Example: Harry killed Du Morne in self defense. He didn't go in to the situation meaning to maliciously murder anyone, he just wielded magic in defense of himself. Molly wanted to fix her friends and make them responsible out of kindness, not mind-fuck them silly for jollies.

Both those acts are certifiable Black Magic as the Council defines it, but the perpetrators didn't turn into raving lunatics immediately. But say Harry HAD gone in just meaning to murder the hell out of Justin, or Molly had, in a fit of rage, broken someone's mind on purpose. That kind of malicious violation would, in my mind, make you more susceptible to the corrupting influence of black magic. Perhaps you wouldn't turn into a foaming-at-the-mouth psycho immediately, but you would definitely be adding some black into your personal shade of grey.

And it is mentioned several times that black magic is corrupting. You do it once because you feel you have no other choice and you keep using it out of perceived necessity, and soon enough every choice seems like it should be made with the black magic solution.

tl;dr: Breaking the law doesn't make you evil, using black magic to hurt others maliciously makes you evil.

Keep in mind, this is ALL my own opinion and interpretation.