No, you just don't understand that literally the only thing they could do was give a few words of advice.

It's fairly accurate.

They seclude themselves for the same reasons the Mothers do: The Rules.

I swear I've said this before, but no. The Gods couldn't break them--they wiggled around them. And literally all they were able to do give a few words of advice and then had to vanish. Uriel does that.

The Angels can, WoJ, go against the rules that bind them--it just has repercussions. Like with the Greek Gods. They fear the repercussions so they don't. Like the Greek Gods.

They literally cannot fight any monsters unless there are specific circumstances that allow them too or they're attacked. They can't interfere to protect their children (even Zeus had to watch Thalia die). They really can't interfere much at all, unless someone is dumb enough to try to step to them, in which case they can retaliate.

They're basically like the Angels.

 

Their power is great but only in thier domains, so the Demigods would be equal to the Ladies in a sense.

 

And syed proves he's a fucktard once again. It would be the Knights they are the equivalent of. The Ladies are still bound by all the rules of the Fae.

 

A possible reason for their seclusion is that they were faced with insurmountable obstacles back in the distant past. Say, an alliance of various supernatural factions that would if not completely destroy them (like the Black Court faced), at least greatly weaken their power. When given the choice between seclusion and destruction I can't really imagine the Greek Gods doing anything but saving themselves. Powerful they may be, but as anyone who has studied the mythology knows, they were extremely petty. Divide and conquer would be the rule of the game against them, and they know it.

 

That would make sense Aekiel. The weakness of the Gods is always if they can be divided, they are more easily beaten.

It makes perfect sense that the Gods went into seclusion to protect themselves and their offspring.

 

You took the word 'god' from a Dresden Files quote and applied it to another universe. And saw no problem with this.

It's like...imagine an argument where someone argued that Mortals could take on all the angels in Heaven in Dresden because they could in Salvation War. And then backed this up by attempting to make claims about the capabilities of individual Dresdenverse angels based on info given about Angel Biology in Salvation War. And then defended this by saying "the author said x about Angels."

It's that kind of argument. The fact that you couldn't see it makes me sad.

---------- Post automerged at 05:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:52 PM ----------

The question is: What the fuck could actually pose a threat to that many Mab-class beings? It's pretty fucking difficult to shoehorn in that many things with Mab-ish powers into Dresden and explain them hiding themselves away, because there isn't much that could do it. I'd say there's close to Fucking Nothing At All. Aside from lolwtfbbq overpowered Angels based on Ryuugi's SB-level-High-calcs interpretation of Word of Jim.

 

:facepalm

Holy crap you're dumb.

Let's take a look at look at the post you commented on, shall we?

I stated that the known Power of Gods at their height was comparable to the Gods of another story, who were at their height. Since I was trying to make a damn crossover, this was a good thing.

Yes, I was applying one term to beings in another story--that was the whole point. I'm working on a crossover. Finding points of similarity (and difference) is a good thing.

And it was nothing like the retarded Strawman Example you just gave, because the SW Angels and the DF Angels have extremely different amounts of power. This comparison was drawn as a point of commonality between to extremely similar beings in two stories.

The fact that you couldn't see that makes me sad.

Well, it's good to know that you have no idea what you're talking about in either side of the crossover, and that you haven't been paying attention.

First of all, the WoJ thing: You're stupid.

The post in question:

I bolded the important parts for you, since you seem to be having a hard time reading. I'm not making anything up. I'm not even interpreting. I'm quoting the author.

I'd repeat the canonical restrictions the Gods have on what they can do, but I already did that in this thread, recently, and you ignored it completely, so I cbf.

 

Mab and Titania. The Mothers. The leader(s) of the Fomor (they had to be powerful to warrant the entirety of Faerie ganging up on them). Dragons. Possibly the White Court (assuming that since they speak Ancient Etruscan they are contemporaries of the Greek gods), since their powers don't rely on outright destruction. Other pantheons (the Hindu gods especially would be annoyed, considering Alexander's conquests).

There are plenty of beings out there that could take on the Greek Gods, if they put their minds to it and worked together. Perhaps they were growing too powerful and the balance was being upset, which the Faeries especially would disagree with. The Dragons saw it as a chance to lessen the power of a mortal friendly pantheon, giving them a better chance of reclaiming their previous positions. The Fomor wanted to weaken Poseidon/Neptune's power over the sea after they were cast into it. The White Court a chance to increase their influence in the world. Obviously the Fomor and Faeries would not work together, but there are lots of other creatures out there.

Lots of reasons, many of them conceivable. Things were different in the past, and gods played a much larger role in shaping human events. Hell, even the Norse pantheon could have been in on it, given that it evolved from Germanic religions.

 

So...Fiat just managed to demonstrate his lack of knowledge of either of the Universes under discussion.

Fiat, why take part in a discussion you obviously don't know anything about?

 

Aekiel: I'll grant you the others (with the possible exception of the White Court, but I'll hold off on arguing there, I'm not too familiar with their powers), but how could two Mab-level beings (Mab + Titania) be able to beat twelve Mab-level beings?

Dragons were also something I thought of, since Ferrovax is one of the people Butcher mentions as being able to take down Mab.

As for restrictions, I guess that could be workable - perhaps there was a ganging up of the type Aekiel mentioned, and the Greek Gods signed something along the lines of the Unseelie Accords, agreeing to divide their worlds.

Then you'd have to address why it has been broken now - not just some noticeable act, I'd think that there would have to be a bigger reason as to why the worlds are colliding again. I generally don't like having one super-evil villain responsible for everything, but it's possible the Black Council had worked something to introduce more conflict into the world and draw attention away from themselves, especially since many of the demigods are hotheaded teenagers.

That said, most of my concerns have been addressed, so good luck, Ryuugi Shi.

 

That's what I meant by working together. They couldn't take them individually, but the Faeries at least have been known to work together to take down a greater threat, which a big something because they're naturally antagonist to each other.

 

Never even read the PJ books, so I might get a few things wrong, but another thing to consider on the whole "power of the Greek Gods" issue would be that, if they follow Dresdenverse rules, they will have gotten a heck of a lot weaker once the vast majority of their worshipers went away.

Going off what we saw of Odin in Changes, the Greek Gods wouldn't need an extra reason to be fairly cautious when it came to actually throwing their power around. The fact that they're a lot weaker than they once were would be enough to make them very cautious, especially since a lot of the people on their potential enemies list won't have gotten any weaker.

For example, Aekiel mentioned the Hindu pantheon on their list of potential enemies. Unlike the Greek Gods, the Hindu pantheon still has a lot of active worshipers (somewhere in the are of a billion and change). All else being equal, one would assume that in the modern Dresdenverse the Greek pantheon would lose badly in any conflict with the Hindu pantheon.

Considering how much power they lost, the Greek pantheon going into seclusion after most of their worshipers went away makes a lot of sense. Reminding any of their former enemies that they were still around, and were a lot weaker than they used to be, would not end well.

 

Yes Chengar, but based on the PJ books there is ample evidence to suggest that the Greek Gods have not lost their power, because they anchored their power to Western Civilisation than to individual worshipers.

And you can't just go arbitrarily downgrading the power of the Greek pantheon based on the DF universe, otherwise the events of the PJ series don't make any sense.

 

I have no knowledge of Percy Jackson, but I'm looking through the Dresden RPG books and came across some information that might be useful to this discussion.

Under "Gods", "The Olympians" are referred to as a tribe of gods, so they sorta exist in canon. Also, there's this paragraph:

As the RPG books are canon, maybe the PJ Gods can believably exist in the Dresdenverse. I'm not sure how they'd fit in, but then I don't know much about them.

If this has been posted already, just ignore me

 

/leaves thread a while back, happy in the knowledge this PJO shit will die while I'm away
/strolls back into thread, PJO bullsit still raging
/leaves again in disgust

Seriously though, can we either stop shitting up the DF Fanfic thread with this Percy Jackson bitchfight, or else make a separate DF/PJ thread which I can mercifully ignore?

 

Or take this to the story thread, either works.

 

Yes, but unfortunately these aren't actual Dresdenverse-style Greek Gods. These are twelve beings with the type of power Mordecai has been describing for a few pages now - and short of an alliance between the majority of the supernatural powers out there - something that'd never exist ever - they would be pretty much unbeatable. Faerie queens are among the most powerful things we see in Dresden canon and twelve things roughly on par with them - and they definitely wouldn't be merely on par from the descriptions of their power in-thread - would be pretty much completely unbeatable. Look at the list of things that can take Mab.

That's what can take on Mab - and it's noted that none of these things would really 'win' so much as 'continue to exist.' Now imagine twelve Mabs.

Ryuugi: Firstly, deciding that quotes apply because two completely different beings share a name is ridiculous. It will always be so. There's a reason that, despite the two universes both having something called 'magic' they're treated separately in most crossovers, and the issue with gods and the PJO Olympians is pretty much the same. Apples to Oranges and all that. Even if it isn't as egregious as the kind of shit you see on Space Battles, it's the same methodology and I stand by what I said before.

Then there's your constant quoting of that fucking quote about Angels: Maybe you don't have to take the blatant hyperbole literally? Sometimes you have to take a quote at less than face value when it would completely fuck up the nature of the universe it pertains to, especially when it fucking sounds like Hyperbole.

The presence of Olympians in the Dresden Files world, if you actually made them as powerful as they're supposed to be, would destabilize everything and they're pretty hard to shoehorn into the universe.

Chengar: The issue is that no one is willing to compromise. They aren't willing to fuck with the Dresden cosmology to justify the Olympians' existence (As they definitely shouldn't be willing to) but they also aren't willing to weaken the Olympians to make them make any sort of sense in the Dresdenverse.

 

Fixed for you...

 

The Dresden universe has many beings that are at least comparable to Mab. Below are a few extracts from Proven Guilty where Dresden directly states who he knows could stand up to Mab and siege Arctis Tor.


“To answer your question, Murph, I don’t know who did this, but the list of the people who could is fairly short. Maybe the Senior Council could if they had the Wardens along, but they’re busy, and they’d have had to fight a campaign to get this far. Maybe the vampires could have done it, working together, but that doesn’t track. I don’t know. Maybe Mab pissed off a god or something.”

“There is only one God,” Charity said.

I waved a hand and said, “No capital ‘G,’ Charity, in deference to your beliefs. But there are beings who aren’t the Almighty who have power way beyond anything running around the planet.”

“Like who?” Murphy asked.

“Old Greek and Roman and Norse deities. Lots and lots of Amerind divinity, and African tribal beings. A few Australian aboriginal gods; others in Polynesia, southeast Asia. About a zillion Hindu gods. But they’ve all been dormant for centuries.”


Then they are other beings that are implied or can be inferred to rival Mab, for example, Demonreach, Ferrovax, Kemmler, Arcangels, Erlking etc.

 

Archangels are a tier above Mab, being peers of the Mothers. Heh, perhaps that's the answer. The Greek Gods ran away because they pissed off the Mothers.