The "you have me" really didn't work for me, and not just because I don't like Murphy.

Harry is a Wizard, with the lifespan that entails. When he was justifying not pursuing a relationship with Murphy earlier, one reason was that he was likely to outlive her by a couple hundred years... If he doesn't get killed first, he'll only "have her" to keep him steady for a fifth of his remaining years.

This was my read on it as well.

 

In the end my biggest let down was how short it was. Doesn't seems like there was any point in splitting the books up.

Peace Talks is about 850 pages long and from what Battle Ground says online its gonna be about 450. Was that really too long of a book for JB?

Seems to me like he's just trying to manufacture tension that isn't really there for me at the moment.

Also I wanted to see supernatural politics and there just wasn't any of that. I wanted to see millennia old grudges and groups we haven't ever seen before. Jade Court, Drakul, Black Court etc. I was curious what Drakul was like and wanted to know if the Black Court even had a king like the Red and White. Instead i get Thomas trying to assassinate some dude for "reasons" and since it was the most honorable to their word people, it seemed like they were the one's actually confused as fuck for most of the book.

Happy to have read new DF but was definitely expecting more.

 

Agree with most everyone here, especially in regards to lightsaber nerf, Butters' "development," Titan-outta-nowhere, and that there really was no resolution in this book, like at all.

But we found out a little bit more about Starborns though, so there's that. And we'll probably have a book where Dresden goes to fight alongside/learn from River Shoulders, so that may be interesting.

 

Yeah, never read them either (though I knew roughly what happened), so I ended up looking up and reading a copy of 'Cold Case' literally right after that whole "Wham." line, when Ramirez goes all stone faced when Dresden mentions pretty girls

 

Uh, Peace Talks is 352 pages.

I see why they split it, but if we weren't getting part 2 in September I'd be mildly miffed.

I'm about 80% Murphy doesn't survive Battlegrounds. More thoughts will come when I'm done at work.

 

My ebook is 464 pages.

 

My hardcopy is 340. I got 352 from Goodreads. Different formatting be crazy I guess.

 

Read it as an E-book but on my phone with a larger font so I’m assuming it doubled the pages.

Either way, while I always enjoying reading new DF and finding more out about the world, Peace Talks was not what I was expecting.

 

While I get the reason to have two books instead of one considering it would over 100 longer than the longest book in the series, but it should be called part 1 and part 2 instead of giving it two different tittles, because it's one book anyway.

I'm a little disappointed in the peace talks. I was expecting more major powers to be introduced to expand the world like Drakul. What we got was a meeting of the usual characters that often visit Chicago. At the same time Ivy disappeared after first meeting without talking to Harry and Odin had almost no interactions with him too.

I like Butters, but come on. What's next? Lara suddenly being in love with him? Mab and Titania making peace to share him?

If there are really angels in the swords then it's definitely the three Archangels. Explains how the Knights can fight against pretty much anything and Murphy suddenly talking with a voice of one in the Changes.

Murphy is either gone in the next book or she's not a mortal anymore.

I'm not sure if there were less pop culture references than in the last few books, but it felt like it was closer to earlier book when they were fun instead of tiresome.

I would like more explanation of power levels because right now I'm confused why the Titan is that much more powerful than everyone else. And if Harry captures her then even if the White Council decides to remove him there aren't going to be many who will want to risk going against him.

 

I can't read this thread yet... i just picked up the book and got home. But man. man I can't wait for a few hours when i can see what you all have said and add my own comments.

 

I am 100% on board with feeling underwhelmed with the actual Peace Talks.

Not enough new people, no Drakul and others, no sniping and double talk. Unless it was set up, as a set up, which seems unlikely.

That meeting was very very tame. Hell even having Mac there as arbiter would of been cool.

 

Overall, I liked it a fair bit. Even accounting for the inevitable fact that it's meant to be a two-parter, which it very obviously is, this feels like the most solid book since Changes*, showing a lot of what I like about the Dresden Files, and all around made it at least worth a pretty sleepless night. I read the book almost in one sitting, and there was a lot of cool stuff...but still, as people have brushed over, I have a number of thoughts and issues:

Spoiler

Right off the bat, some stuff was bothering me. The Knights are very obvious being set up for the sequel, and that's okay to a point, but they don't matter at all here--they're just shown to be here so they can show up in Part 2. Also, as he has since Skin Game, Butters annoys the hell out of me, and not just because of the threesome scene--we see him fighting with Sanya and go into how he's now incredibly trained and agile, ready to fight, a big league swordsman, and it's like...how? It's been a month. There was some talk about Murphy training him, but she's been in casts. How is Butters worth a damn yet?

Conjuritis was...I'm not inherently opposed to it, but it came out of left-field and barely mattered. Did I miss something or was it really unmentioned until the fight against the Cornerhounds? And then it happened two more times and that's it? It's like, here's an issue Harry suddenly going to have, but we'll forget about it for tens of thousands of words at a time. Harry not knowing about it wasn't a funny joke, however, and became dumber and dumber over time. Also, actually, can I just say--conjuring things, even life, and having it be real for awhile is an incredibly impressive thing. If you're going to introduce that, come on--that's more impressive than a lot of the shit Harry's ever done and its a joke here?

I also kind of just expected more from the Peace Talks aspect of things. More new figures, more new factions, deals and negotiations, but we basically skip all that. It gets replaced by other plots in its entirety.

So much stuff goes unsaid, for plot reasons--the Eb-Thomas conversation gets drawn out for a huge amount of time just so it can go to hell at the end, which everyone knows is coming. The Starborn conversation still isn't really had, just brushed over vaguely. A lot of stuff just happens and is left to be here.

Also, stuff comes out of nowhere, and bigger shit than Conjuritis. Like, the Fomor. If you know me, you know that I've complained about the Fomor for a good long while, because they just aren't handled well in the series. If you read all the short stories, like I do, you'd know that they appeared in those a few times. You might even remember that King Cob was mentioned in Marcone's side story and an Empress in one of Molly's.

But this is their first appearance in the main series. Harry's never even seen the Fomor prior to this. And this huge turn--it's not given time for any build up, not hinted at at all in this book, the Fomor don't even appear in the first two-thirds of the series, and then sudden, boom--Ethniu punts Mab through a wall.

And like, sure--lolpowerlevels have always been a thing in the DF, but this feels exceptionally unearned. If you're like me, and you read the summary of Battle Ground, you knew this was happening, we're flat-out told a Titaness is appearing, and so a lot of us were confused because most of the Titanesses were mythological nobodies. So I was really wondering, who is it gonna be. And the answer is...an even bigger mythological nobody? She's the Greek equivalent of Perseus' mom; Balor gets told a prophecy that his grand son will kill him, locks her in a tower, it doesn't work, and Lugh later kills him. But here, she's major league bad news, casually breaking Mab and terrifying gods and making Ferrovax obey her and...

It could work. If there was some build up. If the Fomor had been less like jokes before now. If we'd heard anything about her. But we didn't get that, so it's like we're going 'So, Balor's dead and that sucks, because he's one of the few Fomor that mattered. But what if, instead, there was a girl Balor still alive? Didn't he have a daughter? That works, no matter how little sense it makes.' Because this hype could work for Balor, sure--but it doesn't work for daddy's little nobody.

I'm waiting until the part two to be sure, but for the moment, it's still pretty good.

*Which isn't to say that the intervening books have been bad, even, but Ghost Story was very different, Cold Days was very high-paced for good and ill both, and Skin Game was...odd at times.

 

A book that’s called Peace Talks, but the actual peace talks are glossed over. I have to laugh. I liked the book. I appreciated the starborn info (however little of it there was), Maggie and Dresden scenes, and Mab backstory.

I wish we had gotten to know other signatories of the accords. Maybe the Jade Court, the Fellowship, Drakul or Venatori idk it seemed like the usual people meeting up at the local Applebee’s for drinks. And Dresden is usually so chatty but didn’t talk to anyone else really but River. I’m really confused why he didn’t pad talks more.

Things I hated. This book was very horny and I cringed at his Hope Carpenter description then again when Ivy was reintroduced. What a weird thing to write about children.

Thomas being dumb assassin and trying to say Justine (or Justine DuMorne maybe) was stretching it.

Murphy and Butters can both die next book. I have never wished for anything in this series harder. Except for Harry/Molly. Murphy is so draining and Butter is the worst self insert since Rey Skywalker (even though I enjoy her).

 

The peace talk concept was wasted, yeah, even with just the factions they showed. Like, there was a scene in the book where Harry goes to meet the Summer delegation and it goes 'Harry exchanges nods with Sarissa and shakes Fix's hand.' That, after the events of Cold Days?

Come on now, story.

I do agree with whoever said it, as well, that Thomas being the assassin was wasted, not only in (at least seemingly) predictable and cliche motives, but more importantly, because it happened early on and off screen. That shit absolutely should have waited until the first day of peace talks and while everyone was around, instead of preceding it and consuming that plotline entirely. It would have been great to see Thomas acting oddly, leading up to the attempt and then the aftermath, instead of off-screening it and having him reduced to a mumbling wreck beforehand.

 

Oh good point. He may not have been saying Justine at all.

Wild speculation time: Could Thomas have realised Justine set him up? Is that why he's just laying about moaning? (besides you know... getting stomped)

In chapter 18, we have that Dresden's interaction with Goodman Grey:
Grey calls Justine a femme fatale, he asks Dresden if he's to spy on Justine or be her bodyguard - Dresden replies "Yes". When questioned on it Dresden replies that he just needs more information before he can act appropriately.

The interaction with Grey at c18 makes me read Dresdens interaction with Justine in c10 in a different light. One second he's cautious, and then suddenly he's talked into promising to make sure Thomas doesn't die.

I can't tell if JB is trying to throw us off by making Justine look suspicious or if I'm just reading too much into this.

 

Overall, I enjoyed it. A good way to spend a sizeable chunk of the day. Was I disappointed? Yeah, and it doesn't bother me too much. But it does get me excited for Battle Ground, which is shaping up to be an epic, catastrophic event many times the magnitude of Chichen Itza.

Story definitely more set-up than a self-contained narrative. The peace talks were SO rushed - for an event of such importance I'd expect more enormity to the proceedings, but it just felt too casual. Lara was good, Thomas (considering how his actions kick off the plot) isn't given the sort of importance I suspected he might, but oh well. Molly was a welcome sight and I could care less about Butters. I don't particularly desire to see him die but I don't exactly cheer whenever he shows up. The threesome thing was worth an eye-roll. Definitely want to see the Knights in action and Uriel better pop in for an explanation or two later. No way does a proto-god waltz into human territory with a weak response from Upstairs, Knight deployment regardless.

The Titan was...a let-down. Don't get me wrong, I love ancient, powerful entities talking shop and going over old history, since it gives an intriguing glimpse into the series mythology. The pacing of it just felt off, and her introduction seemingly out of nowhere. The Mab smackdown was a little silly, and, as someone else already pointed out, Looney Tunes-level.

The Winter Knight Libido is grating. The book was a lot more sexed-up than I thought it'd be. I agree that Harry's comments about Hope were uncomfortable and there was a point I dreaded he'd do the same with Ivy but thank God he didn't. Starborn stuff, good. Ebenezar is and always will be bad-ass. Still a little mystified by the Murphy hate, but I won't argue. Lots of fires and explosions on the way and hopefully we won't have to wait as long as we did for this one after Battle Ground releases.

 

Perhaps someone can help me remember if Thomas needed to heal differently after Shaggnasty beat him into a pulp, but why are Dresden and Lara so worried about if Thomas can heal? As long as he's alive, can't they just throw women/men/food at him for a while? I understand Dresden may have problems with that but Lara would probably throw a 6-month-long Bacchanal to save her baby brother, right?

 

I thought the same about Thomas. Lara could throw girls at him until he healed. Or she can feed and then feed him.

 

I've been under the impression that since this is already under Spoiler Talk, I haven't been blocking out my responses, but I'll cover my bases, all the same:

Spoiler

So - just thinking through it "aloud" so to speak - I think they rescue Thomas, and then realize that his Hunger is feeding directly off his life energy, since the svartalves have beaten/deprived him of sustenance. This dramatically shortens the already limited timetable they're working with. Their plan is to take Thomas to Demonreach where he's safe from the Powers that seek justice from his corpse, and then place him in stasis, but they have to get there before his Hunger kills him. Well, why didn't Lara have some contingency in place in case they found Thomas in that state - which was a highly likely outcome, considering the severity of his captors? Maybe some slaves waiting at the docks for Thomas to feast on? I don't know. My mind kind of glazed over during the prison break portion, honestly.

On an unrelated note:

Spoiler: sad stuff

Gwynn ap Nudd deserved better.

 

I actually re-read Turn Coat not too long ago. Basically, Shagnasty beat Thomas to the point where his Hunger (which is how I will refer to his demon) started going feral. Then he threw a girl at Thomas. Rinse and repeat.

The svartalves beat Thomas to that point, and then kept going until the Hunger went self-cannibalistic, similar to how people's bodies will feed on themselves at a certain point of starvation. The Hunger is basically stuck in a loop. Thomas, and therefore the Hunger are starving. The Hunger feeds on Thomas who then has less energy. Since Thomas has less energy, the Hunger is starving and the loop continues. From what Lara said, I don't think that the White Court knows of a way to stop the loop. But I may need to re-read that part.

Spoiler: Thoughts on Peace Talks

• I don't think the title had much to do with the "peace" talks with the Fomor. I think it is more about Harry's various attempts at diplomacy instead of just force, perhaps as an attempt to show his growth in a manner slightly similar to Skin Game. His failed attempts with McCoy for example.
• Whoever is responsible for getting IA on Harry and Karin is likely the person responsible for the Feds watching Justine and Thomas's attempted assassination of Etri. Part of me wants to place the blame on the Fomor, but based on the Titan's (whose name I can't recall and I can't be assed to walk into the other room to grab my copy of Peace Talks and check) attitude re:mortals, I doubt it. Almost certain that it is a member of the supernatural community, and I'm somewhere around a coin-flip on whether or not Justine is in on it.
• Frankly, Eb learning that Thomas is his grandson was never going to go well so I can't say I'm surprised at what happened.
• I've got $5 that says Lara was somehow involved in Eb's wife's death and that she feels guilty about some part of it.
• Poor baseball loving goat-fairy. But I'd rather Gwynn ap Nudd died than Erlking whose role in the series I don't think is done.
• On a related note, Gwynn did not necessarily need to be killed on Halloween. Per Bob in Cold Days it takes a special place in space/time to kill an immortal. The three we know of are Halloween (per Cold Days) and the Stone Table on either of the solstices (see Summer Knight). There are likely more, and I wouldn't be particularly surprised if some only worked for certain kinds of immortals (fairies, gods, etc.).

Spoiler: Speculation about the future

• I think there might be greater than zero but less than fifty percent chance that at the end of Battlegrounds Harry is no longer a member of the White Council but a potential signatory of the Accords himself, depending on how successful he is at imprisoning the Titan in the bowels of Demonreach.
• Battlegrounds is going to see the death of a disturbing number of the Senior Council (may or may not include Eb) based on what River Shoulders said. My money is on Eb dying at the intro of the Apocalypse we are apparently getting a trilogy of, though there is a very good chance I am wrong.
• This is very tinfoil-hat appropriate but I don't care: I did the math. If starborn are born every 666 years, three starborn cycles/generations are 1,998 years. Who do we know that may have been born 1,998 years before Harry? Nicodemus may be a starborn himself. It's fairly obvious he is opposed to Nemesis (see when he kills Deirdre in Skin Game). Everytime the Denarians have appeared it has been made explicit that he has a habit of destroying the Church's records of him every few hundred years. I highly doubt he just destroys the Church's records. Also, 666 ties in, as anyone who has read The Book of Revelation or listened to Iron Maiden would know, rather intimately with a combination of the Devil and the end times (apocalypse).
• We're going to see Mavra in Battlegrounds, and maybe the Genoskwa who easily has the most metal name in Blood on His Soul.
• Dresden finds out about Molly and Ramirez, and that is part of why Ramirez isn't trusting Dresden (beyond the stuff he brought up by Ramirez at the end of White Night).
• I don't know how this will be relevant, but our slight revelation about Mab's past tie-in with the Arthurian Mythos and Merlin is going to be important between the end of the series.
• Amoracchius and the likely internal angel are going to be part of freeing Thomas of his Hunger and it is going to fuck Eb up.
• And finally: there is some sort of conspiracy or agreement amongst various factions to keep information about starborns and what it means to be one from a starborn unless it is absolutely necessary. Probably to keep a starborn from going bad and working with Outsiders as opposed to being in opposition to them. Odin/Vadderung/Santa/Beowulf, the Senior Council, Ferrovax, maybe the Mothers and the Sky path of the Forest People are in on it.

EDIT: Fixed formatting which got borked.