Finished it at 2 AM. My lunch break is almost over, so here are my admittedly muddled thoughts:

The cornerhound fight was a highlight. More Outsiders = More Good.

Where the fuck was Kincaid? "Hey, haven't seen you since you killed me," is a very Dresdenesque ice breaker.

The Titan was a bit out of nowhere. I mean, there was the giant footprint on the beach, but other than that...

The Peace Talks in question appear to have been Harry's, rather than the official ones, making the title metaphorical. I was expecting a novel full of intriguery, blackstabityness, cloak and daggering, and betrayals out the proverbial whazoo, and instead we got, basically, another heist novel. Not strictly, in a vacuum, a bad thing, but on the heels of a much-better planned and executed heist novel, it kind of pales in comparison. Dresden repeatedly trying and failing to use effective communication appears to have been the real talking going on, and unfortunately, the most important of those, with McCoy, were a painful, drawn out execution of a cliche.

McCoy himself was a badass, as ever, but his anti-vamp blinders seemed to be on a little tight. I am certainly hoping something happened recently with the White Court to get his dander up, because otherwise, it feels a touch OOC... not *completely*... but a touch.

Thomas' "J...J..." was pretty obviously not the beginning of 'Justine." I think he broke down weeping at the end because he couldn't communicate what he was trying to say. Justin DuMorne? Jewel? Journal? ...Jade Court? All possible 'J's.

The Talks themselves, felt... small. I was expecting them to be held at a fucking convention centre, or a bigass hotel to be completely rented out. I expected to see 100 different factions. I expected to world building and introductions and awkward reunions and awesome callbacks, and instead we ended up with a few cameos, then it was down a poop chute and into Dresden's old lab.

It seems weird to say in a book he broke in half, but it felt like he could have done some padding. DF is the only series where I actively want and crave more diversions into the backstories and world, because it's fun and ridiculous and awesome and makes Harry's life a living hell. Once Butcher realised he was splitting it down the middle, he should have gone back and padded. You hear that, Jim? I'm literally asking for more padding. There were large empty spreads in the timeline where more things could have fit easily.

The sliding timeline. Jesus H Christ, the sliding timeline. Yeah, I get it, Jim, you like Marvel Comics. But don't steal this concept from them. The reference to Notre Dame broke me completely out of the story as I paused and tried to reconcile it. And yes, Dresden, you have been in that building before. With your body. You made a point of noting that you didn't need to be told your way around last time because you'd already seen it. How in the bloody blue fuck did his beta farm miss this? Also broke my immersion, and coming so quickly after the Notre Dame bit, made me (briefly) consider just tearing out that page.

The only thing I can think of - okay, one of only two things - is that someone or something blanked it from Dresden's mind. There is precedent in the series for this, obviously. But he remembered paying Marcone the weregild. He just didn't remember where he did so? Seriously? The second is that... sigh... Butcher's building a multiverse, and this Dresden isn't the same Dresden as the one in Skin Game. See above regarding stealing ideas from comics.

Goodman Grey is great. Albeit wasted in yet another cameo. The mortal authorities getting called in was more like a plot device than a plot unto itself, but I read that as more of a callback statement: calling in mortals is the nuclear first strike of the supernatural world. Someone wants Dresden - and Murphy - off the board. (Would not be surprised in the least if it was McCoy or one of the other White Council.)

Say what you will, but I do not hate Butters or Murphy. Karrin is a normal person trying to keep up with her friends and the people she loves... and falling behind. Doesn't mean she should drop out of the race, folks.

Marci and Andi being a pair is yet anther thing brought in from the short stories - it was mentioned in Aftermath, I believe, that they hooked up going back to highschool - so I don't strictly hate this development, but it is kind of out of nowhere. But coupled with Freydis, I'd say Jim is unabashedly waving his "I Love Redheads" banner. (And who can blame him, really?) As for Fidelacchius, I must be one of the few who thought the lightsabre trick was kind of cool and not horrible. The 'nerfing' that everyone's going on about doesn't feel like that to me; a weapon that can harm monsters but not people - you may recall I had a similar thing in one of my stories.

Other than that... it was a fast, easy, mostly enjoyable read.

Man, how many of us have said that in this thread? We sit here and nitpick it to the bone, then say we still enjoyed it?

Must be because we care so damned much. Anyhow, looking forward to Battle Ground.

 

Ivy fired Kincaid because he agreed to kill Dresden. It's part of one of the microfictions on Butcher's website.

 

I don't have a problem with the lightsaber, just who's using it. In Skin Game we're told most Knights only server for three days or something. It would've been fine if Butter's took up the broken sword long enough to drive off Nick and turn it into something new and cool. Except now we have a specky almost 50 year old with no martial background.

 

That's probably not the case this time, but now I want Mirror Mirror to start with a narration from Mirror Harry Dresden, allowing the readers to realise this is not normal Harry at the end of the prologue. Or maybe even have half the chapters from his perspective and half from other Harry's.

 

It makes more sense when you think about it from a theological point of view. There is a bit of a strain of unlikely people being important.

For example:

• David was a shepherd.
• Christ was a carpenter born in a stable attached to an inn.
• The disciples included fisherman, a political revolutionary who may have been a bit of a terrorist and a tax collector.

We've already had an example of a Knight who used one of the Swords once or twice: Murphy.

Edit: In regards to Butters being a Knight.

 

The one trait all knights share is that they're warriors.

 

Theory that I saw elsewhere, wonder what y'all think:

What if the party behind Thomas' stupid assassination attempt was a Nemesis-Infected Evanna, Etri's sister?

• We know they are involved with each other
• She is Etri's second, so would stand to gain from his death
• We're repeatedly told that the swartalves are honorable, etc. Similar to how we (both Dresden and us as an audience) thought that Meave couldn't lie, except SURPRISE, she can due to Nemesis, perhaps Nemesis could make Evanna capable of deceit/murderous ambition?
• During the scene where the embassy is on fire, were given the fact that Mouse, whose judgement has never been wrong, did not trust the swartalves (or perhaps just Evanna and the Swartalves under her command)

Finally, it would make sense from a 'clean up' perspective. If it came to light that Evanna was the one pulling Thomas' strings, he would be more likely to focus on her and her betrayal, as opposed to say some theoretical Black Council that this Dresden could just be making up to get his brother clear of an execution.

 

Could be a thing. I kinda like it.

 

I had the thought that Austri might've been the actual target.

 

Wait...so you're saying not only are the short stories full of relevant information, so are the fucking microfictions on his website? For fuck sake. The man needs to learn how to publish a book series, stick with the book series, and use that book series to tell its readers everything they need to know.

 

You don't need to know Ivy fired Kincaid. It's supplementary material, the people who care enough have read the extra stuff.

 

Nah, its relevant. She's never been seen around without him before, so its a big deal that he's not there. Its the sort of thing that really warrants inclusion in the actual series, even if it had been 2 sentences of overheard conversation.

 

Since I had to track it down anyway, here it is for anyone else that's interested.

Spoiler: Microfiction #3: “Goodbye”

I hung up the phone on Dresden and stared at it for a moment.

Damn.

And I thought I was a hard case.

Only goes to show you that not only do principles get you raked over the coals, they make you lay, light, and rake them for yourself. A man should live his life for more practical things.

But I had to respect him a little. He believed goofball things about the world, but he meant it.

I went to the closet, opened the safe, and removed my most dangerous weapon, my laptop. It had been secured with absolutely every software and hardware precaution I could arrange, all the most up-to-date surveillance countermeasures that were available. It was impregnable. For the next few weeks. Then someone would do something clever and I’d have to update.

I arranged for travel to Chicago. I arranged for hardware to be waiting for me.

I’d already figured my approach for Dresden as a potential target. He was too annoying for words, and too powerful to ignore. Sooner or later, someone was going to contract him. I just hadn’t expected him to do it himself.

I got my coat and walked out of my bedroom in the safehouse.

The Archive was standing in the hallway outside my room, between me and the door.

She was at that awkward age, where if I’d actually been the single father I was being paid to imitate, I’d have been getting worried about uncomfortable conversations. But she wasn’t a pubescent girl. She was the Archive, the living memory of humanity, and one of the most powerful beings on the planet.

And she was furious.

Dresden had named her Ivy. And she had clung to it like a teddy bear.

I stopped and faced her. I had a gun in the small of my back, another in an ankle holster. I’d store them in a secured compartment in the car before I went into the airport. Not that the gendarmes would appreciate the distinction if I was caught with them.

If the Archive decided to come at me, I doubted they’d do me much good.

She stared at me. A child who I’d been attending since shortly after she could walk. Who I’d watched grow up. Who sometimes had nightmares. Who sometimes got sick.

I’d taken care of her.

If I’d been her father, and not a hired driver and gun, that look would have broken something small and fragile, way down inside.

She knew.

“In the chest, Kincaid,” Ivy said.

If you’re shooting at someone, you’ve already decided to kill him. There’s no reason to shoot him anywhere other than the head, if you can. And I can.

She took a step toward me, maybe ninety pounds of furious, tearful eyes and newly-filled-out lips pulled away from a snarl. “In the chest. Or face me.”

I thought about asking her why. But in the end, it didn’t really matter. She had the power to stop me, for good. And she would use it if I didn’t comply. A chest shot might give the wizard time to throw a death curse at me, if he changed his mind.

It was a less risky proposition than going up against the Archive herself, here, now.

I gave her a small bow.

She returned it. Then she stepped aside, so that I could walk to the door.

“I’ll be back in two days,” I said.

“Kincaid,” Ivy said quietly.

I paused at the door.

“He’s my only other friend,” she said.

I looked back at her.

All the knowledge of humanity in one place. But she still couldn’t keep the schoolgirl stockings from rumpling by herself. She had power and ageless wisdom, but she was still a child. Tears stained her cheeks.

“My feet reach the pedals, now,” she said. “Your services are no longer required.”

For a moment, it was hard to move.

But I owed the wizard. And I repay what is rightfully owed.

Spend enough time on this earth, and that’s all that makes sense.

It was only a job, I told myself.

I turned my back on the little girl and left to kill the wizard.

Never did say goodbye.

 

Given that Dresden's her only friend now, it's all the more bizarre they didn't exchange a single word.

 

Beat me to it - Mouses' behaviour set me off more than anything and in a way I find it rather odd Harry doesn't ever really go back to thinking along those lines. Granted his daughter is in danger and he has other things on his mind - but Mouse doesn't seem at all impressed by the actions of the Svartalves and it seems to be brushed aside; maybe I'm reading too much into what feels like an alarmingly obvious point? Kind of contrived the only one killed is the one Harry gets along with but I guess we have to wait till September to see if there's a resolution to this.

Not sure what to make of the book overall - as others have stated part of this read like it was written by a 14 year old teenager who discovered the naked form for the first time; the thirst was real. Clubbed over the head with the same mantra throughout the book. The gap in writing shows, painfully in some places.

Certainly needs a re-read to try and take it all in. Justine being the villain / reason for Thomas attempting the assassination seems like a stretch at present, but who knows. Long-con to wipe out the White Court too? Just seems too difficult to pull off given her love for Thomas. Nemesis infection? Not really sure, desperately need to re-read the series.

Outsiders however, were excellent. Somehow I found this version more threatening than that at the end of Ghost Story. Feel like a lot of what I want to say is just a rehash of what others have put before me and I'm not expert at putting pen to paper.

I guess we're sat counting down to the release date of Battle Ground.

 

Good one. I had thought it might have been the sister overthrowing the King, just because, but hadn't connected it to Nemesis.

IIRC it was mentioned that Thomas comes to visit, and is banging Evanna? And if Nemesis can't get rid of Dresden directly, this would be a good, if convoluted, way to do it.

The Mouse scene also adds a bit to this theory I think.

 

There's a large portion of the problems I have with this book that I can forgive because of the situation and the other situations and the background situations but this...

Now that I've read that microfiction and I know it exists, if Ivy and Dresden don't share a scene in BG I will fucking riot.

 

Now that I have had a bit more time to think and read a lot of other thoughts.

The split in the story seems to be at the route of a lot of the issues. Butcher claims this is the publisher, and I am willing to give him that. But that's not to say the two book system couldn't have worked. He just needed to flesh out both stories more. He said he did fill PT out already. Which I am going to assume is a lot of the rehash scenes we had, the knights, the White Court chitchat ect.

I feel he should of toned down the rehash, yes he does need to rehash some, as not all fans are uber fans who do rereads and post in online forums. But I really feel it a bit much here. Instead we should of got so much more of politics, world building, cloak and dagger shit at the accords.

The accords were the biggest let down, I feel he did this on purpose kinda, a subversion of expectations. I really feel Mab at least partly saw this coming and set it up. But that doesn't excuse the fact we are missing loads of players we have already seen and others we haven't.

Members of the previous accords who we are missing:

Denarians (Left when Nic broke them) but may have been cool to see Tessa there to try to get her faction back in.
Drakul
The other Dragon
Hades (I think)

I think it is implied St Giles and the Ventori are both members, and would be cool to see similar groups, the Earlking as a quasi free lord of the Nether, hell maybe even a true demon. A few more of the free standing lords as well, like Baba Yaga or others.

We could of actually gotten interaction with Ivy and the Summer court, brushed up against some of these other big players, who have heard of the man who burnt the Red Court to the ground.

Overall I feel the story was hampered so badly by being split, and it does need to be taken as a whole. But also even with being split, it could of been done so much better.

As far as the Titan goes, it was very softly hinted before, and people have said they don't like how it came out of left field. But what got me is its been said that uber powerful beings can't exist in the mortal world, their being would break reality. The Mothers can't step onto the world so they draw others to their home in the nether. When uber powerful being come to the mortal world they leave a big part of their power behind. So how does this Titan exist? Angels, Odin, the Mothers, they all are uber powerful and follow these rules, and then suddenly this Titan shows up and says "Yeah nah?".

I'm willing to bet a lot of this will be answered in the next book, but as others have said, that does not fix the issues with this book.

 

I think Jim painted himself into a corner here. It was either:

• Acknowledge the necessary number of signatories to the Accords for things to make sense. If these Accords are so important to how all non-mortals interact in the mortal world and with mortals and each other, you would necessarily need parties that were outside the North American/European-based mythologies. Not every goddamn culture emigrated to the new world, so they couldn't have absorbed ALL the Old World mantles. HOWEVER, this does bring the complication of figuring out what upwards of 100 distinctly different factions are gonna do to defend Chicago, as well as building up the Fomor to be able to match the combined strength of ALL these factions. One could say that some/most would leave, saying Chicago wasn't their fight, but that would serve to break the Accords anyway, seeing as Marcone made a big ol' speech about coming to each other's defense.
• Keep the Accords to basically what we know. Kneecaps the worldbuilding, but makes the battle for this "two-parter" way more manageable.

Either option kind of breaks the story, either by making the Fomor into a BAT-level threat, and therefore way too powerful, or by severely limiting the world.
Maybe it's possible for him to fix it later by saying Mab has multiple regional Accords set up, but that's very sloppy.

Holy shit, didn't even think of this, but this makes me mad. Ferrovax specifically states he can't bring more power to contribute to the fight, cause he'd end up destroying the city. But what does the Titan have if not more fucking power.

Goddamnit.

 

Yes exactly, even Mab is said to leave the majority of her power behind when she steps into the mortal world. So Mab in Chicago is a fraction of Mab in the the Nether. Ok sure, that works really well actually. Cause even a Fraction of Mab is fucking terrifying. But again, the Titan breaks this rule.

Maybe the Titan is "Of Earth" and thus has more power here, while Mab is "Of the Nether", but then that does need to be more laid out. I do think as we get the story from Dresdens point of view that this may be the case and we will learn it in the future. But it puts a massive drain on this book.