It's different, and also better. I forget when Harry last took out goons with his fireball. Considering he almost always deals with thugs like this, it's just poor wizardry that he doesn't have a better tool for them. Which novel was it that his fuego took a chunk out of a ghoul without putting it all the way down, because it's just not that strong?

They gave River Shoulders pause because they are strong and fast. River shoulders doesn't have any offensive spells to throw at them, so he's just going toe to toe, melee vs ranged (they were shooting gun-spears or something). And before the last one is fully powered, he smashes THREE AT ONCE. Meanwhile, Dresden pulls out his gun because he somehow has yet to develop his control enough to handle a goon with fire without splashing the tank, while also not developing his finesse enough to come up with some sort of spell beyond WIND AND FIRE, while also not developing his power enough that he can spare a teensy bit to not get nearly killed in the first fight.

How are these guys not generic goons? They are the scouts sent to scavenge mortals, and Dresden's entirely mortal bannermen handle a pack on their own with many bullets. And they are killed by Dresden's gun, even if it's stupid and ridiculous that he still brought it into battle at this point. I'm sure the Merlin brings regular ass revolvers into battle too. No spells there. No blessed bullets. Just some guns.

It's not that Carlos is some badass or his spells are super cool. It's that he has developed better technical skill by Dresden's own admission in barely any time at all, where previously we assumed it would take so much time. We get the "Molly gets thing done differently with less power" thing already; Carlos is dealing more damage with way less time and never have we heard that Carlos is a prodigy or a powerhouse to rival Dresden. Blackstaff ripping the souls out of dozens with a flick of his wrist? Time and skill. Carlos blasts a dozen with so little power that he can "pull it again and again?" Inconsistency or Dresden wasting time on getting sooo swolllll.

Like are you serious right now?

Narrator:

You:

 

We're on the same page, but I'd like to add that it doesn't even feel like he's gotten better at "smash things hard with force/fire/ice" recently.

 

Yeah, a big part of the issue with the post Cold Days books is that Harry seems like more of a guy who shoots and hits things with the occasional magic trick tossed in than a actual wizard. Not that I object to him being physically competent, but I like Harry Dresden, Wizard. Not Harry Dresden, above average brawler.

 

I'll try and find the exact line, but one of the things that sums up my problems on this front was a thought Dresden had in Peace Talks. It was something along the lines of "maybe it's about time I start being proactive and preparing for bad things that are coming". I screamed a bit inside at that. Like, my man, that was you 10 books ago, the stakes and danger have only escalated, why are you just now thinking this?

 

I'm actually wondering if we're going to find out that someone used mind magic to make him less focused on using, developing, practicing, learning about his magic. It would certainly fit with plot twists Butcher has used before, and might tie into the whole starborn thing.

 

I'm not sure about that, I think it's a combination of spending a lot of time trying to ward off his Mantle's influence (which I'm pretty sure is the reason he trains a lot physically, not trying to get swole) and him not having a lab anymore. In the first few books, I remember several mentions of how a wizard's main strength was his ability to effectively prepare himself to face off against nearly everything, and not having a lab prevented a lot of that. Now that he has it (and Bob) back, I do think his resourcefulness and creativity in magic might go up again. Especially if his conversation with Mab changes his way of fighting his Mantle (the one about how it is bit by bit that he's selling his soul, not all at once).

 

Harry's lack of proper tools and equipment since Cold Days is something that's come up a lot in the discussion, so hopefully getting his old apartment back will help him fix that.

I do wonder if that's the direction Butcher actually wants to go, though. Butcher seems to really care about keeping guns (and thus unpowered people with guns) a relevant threat to even pretty major players. Which is a bit of a problem when in the run-up to Changes Harry was basically bulletproof. His duster could stop shots from a .50 cal anti-materiel rifle, and his upgraded shield bracelet made him pretty close to untouchable as long as he had enough juice to keep it running. With the Winter Mantle boosting up his magic and more experience, he could make even better tools.

On top of that, money's no longer a huge limiting factor for Dresden. One of the things that comes up a lot in the earlier books is that material and craftsmanship costs are a big factor in the quality of magical tools. His upgraded shield bracelet with better craftsmanship and multiple precious metals produced a much better shield than his original bracelet made of a single material and generally lower quality (especially once it got damaged by Marva's flamethrowers). Considering Harry's now a millionaire thanks to the heist in Skin Game and has all the resources and connections that come from being the Winter Knight along with his own exploits, getting craftsmanship that's pretty close to top tier seems a lot more viable than when he was a freelance PI wizard living in a basement.

The big question, at least for me, is whether we'll see Harry actually use these advantages. Because to date we've had four books of him not really leveraging his resources to even get his gear back up to where it was at the time of Changes, let alone pushing things up to a new level.

 

Yeah, I can see that. However if Butcher had written into Skin Game that Harry had converted a room on Demonreach into a lab, or had found an old magical lab underneath the island...literally no one would have questioned it, it would have made perfect sense. So I do feel as though its a bit of a cop out by Butcher to say "oh he didn't have access to a lab" - he lived on Demonreach for nearly 2 years from Cold Days to Peace Talks, he could very reasonably have put together some level of lab in that time.

 

Yeah, it seems like Harry had the resources and connections to get geat made if he really wanted to. It's not like any of his friends would've complained about helping him out, and he could've tapped into some of the resources he gets by virtue of being the Winter Knight. Mab certainly wouldn't object to having her Knight be as capable as possible (as long as it doesn't undermine her control).

 

I didn't want to be the guy who comes out of nowhere to slap my big, thick book-schlong on people's tables for being wrong on the internet--but then I realized, if I don't, who will?

Anyway, I disagree with pretty much all of this.

It's already been mentioned that being experienced in magical fighting--at least in this particular context--isn't really a measure of a wizard's skill, but more to the point, I disagree with it. Just to start with, Harry's clinically unprepared for anything; he spent the last four books saying 'Damn, I wish I'd prepared more for this', which isn't funny, but I'll cover that in more detail below. He's also clinically unaware of anything, which I'll also cover below.

But more immediately, Harry very rarely fights like a wizard, and instead tends to charge into things in person, especially since he got the Mantle, which got his ass beat in every fight he got into in Cold Days, through most of Skin Game, and in every other fight he got into here in the two-parter. The fight with the Huntsmen was probably the biggest one recently, for how jarring it was, but I'd like to give a special shout-out to the fact that Harry's apparent plan to use the Spear of Destiny against a Titan was to...beat her in a spear fight?

Where's Hagrid when you need him to say 'You're a wizard, Harry'?

This is sort of a backhanded compliment, so I'll begrudgingly let it slide, with the important addendum that this isn't really a good thing. This isn't an Indie!Harry where wandless magic is the path to true, ultimate power--Wizards use staffs for the same reasons that humans use guns instead of their bare hands--because they're better in a fight. Harry's still without tools is better than it was, but even he notes that it's incredibly sloppy and limited compared to when he had tools.

And here's the thing that's the biggest mark against him here--It's been most of three years since Harry came back in Cold Days and he's done almost nothing to rectify this, and what he has done seems worse than his old stuff. Harry got better at this because he sucks at actually preparing for things.

This is a pretty amusing assertion, because it's a lot like saying he can smoke crack better than any lawyer in Chicago--yes, he's probably better at using Necromancy than all the guys legally bound against using necromancy on pain of death, especially after he used it that one time--but let's not make this more than it is. Harry has some big boy knowledge from the Word of Kemmler, but Kemmler wrote three books before that which he never read.

Like it just comes off as deceptive to say something like 'Top tier in his Generation and likely beyond all but "True" necromancers', when what you're really saying is he's better than anyone who doesn't use necromancy at all, but worse than anyone who does.'

This is a lost of pretty baseless assertions, especially since half the time it comes up, it's in the context of Harry falling face first into it. He was losing to Corpsetaker and would have died without Hellfire. Mab just mindwhammied him, whit really a point against him, because Mab, but not really one of support, either. The love magic belt in that side-story with the vampire worked just fine on him and he didn't notice until later. Hell, a book again, Ethniu mindfucked him without even knowing he was there, and left him unable to even move--one of the many powers she forgot she had come Battle Ground.

In Harry's own words, he's very stubborn and good at bearing mental assaults, but let's no make this more than it is.

This is a whole lot of absolute nothing that we're putting together to say Harry's maybe above average at something, but before we go on, can I just mention how odd these categories are? I mentioned it before, but this is like a lawyer saying he's the best at popping pills, smoking crack, and fucking bitches--which is an interesting set of skills for a lawyer to be sure, but is that on the bar exam? Will it help them win cases?

Here's the thing--saying 'Here's a bunch of fields that Harry was tangentially involved in a few times--he's probably better with them than anyone who's never experienced them at all!' may be true, but it's not really a case for him being a good wizard? What about his skill with Evocation? With Thaumaturgy? His knowledge and ability to use magic to solve his problems?

And he's barely touched any of it in the last three years.

Like, let's just say this is true--which I'm not sure I agree with, with the exception of Little Chicago, which he used all of once that we saw and never even talked about replacing. I'm not sure if his normal gear is better that Carlos' glove of disintegration or Molly's illusion and memory blast rings, but let's say it's true.

It doesn't matter if he doesn't use it. White Knight and Small Favor introduced a bunch of odds and ends that seemed to be examples of how Harry improved as a wizard and had learn more from teaching Molly and Camp Kaboom, but where's all that gone? Even if his standard gear was the best in the generation, which I again don't really buy, where the hell is it?

Absolutely not.

Absolutely fucking no to this one, even after everything that's happened. Harry's always been garbage when it came to this and still is, even with basic shit. Remember in Fool Moon where, despite having had Bob for over a decade, Harry didn't know what werewolves were like in his own universe? In Grave Peril where, even after a vampire swore revenge against him a year before, he didn't know what the Vampire Courts were, or the differences between them!? Or what Dragons were, even?

And then it gets worse. In Summer Knight, it's revealed that Harry, despite living in fear of his godmother for something like fifteen years, he didn't know there was more than one Faerie Queen for each Court, and also, everything else he knew about the Fae turns out false come Cold Days. Oh, did you know thirty fallen angels have been running around for the last two thousand years? Harry didn't. Did you know there was a balck magic Hitler who ran rampant across the world within living memory? Harry's never heard of the guy. Pretty much every goddamn time a monster shows up, Harry's never fucking heard of the guy!

To say nothing of fucking Conjuritis. Fuck-mothering conjuritis, the worst plot point in the last two books, and with no fucking payoff. Just a series of Harry asking people about it and them going 'Conjuritis, Harry? At your age?' Everyone he asks knows about it, apparently, but not Harry, so we had to sit through that same joke, again and again. I thought fucking Murphy was eventually going to go 'Really Harry? At your age?'

So, no, I don't agree with this at all. Harry knows a lot from all the times he's been caught with his pants down and needed it explained to him, but the last time he knew about something beforehand, it was...what, the Skinwalker? Minus any actually useful knowledge, of course. And before that, it was, uh...I don't remember.

And it's doubly bad, because even aside from the issues of having never gotten curious about classic movie monsters, there's a treaty that all the supernatural bigwigs have signed. Harry never, at any point in the last thirty years, went 'Hey Bob, could you give me, like, a paragraph on who each of these guys are?' Never!?

Harry doesn't know shit and never has.

I mean, I'll say it. Harry's fire blasts that don't seem to work at all half the time, get shrugged off half the remainder, and takes out, like, a single mook most of the rest of the time seems a lot less effective that Carlos casting Disintegrate as an at-will spell. Hell, even the dissolving spheres in White Night seemed better, in terms of effect.

But even leaving that aside, no, I disagree completely, except about the wandless shit, which is still just a roundabout way of saying 'at least he's decent at coping with his own failures as a wizard.'

 

Phew, ok, great post with good points, I am on mobile so hard to quote specifically. But I'll touch on your main points.

The one thing I fell I need to point out again, and is kind of my core point over the last 5ish books. Is that Harry's life has been a fucking shit show. It seems people were mostly fine with Harrys progression up till Ghost story. If you want to start picking apart the entire universe, I can't be bothered. Suspension of disbelief.

Taken from the moment he took a bullet through the chest:

Lost 6ish months between dying and "Ghost Harry".

Less than a week as a Ghost, learning Ghostly ways.

Several months of therapy to get fit again in Cold Days. Its fucking hilarious you waved away his training here. Its not a INdy Harry check list. Every single senior wizard we see uses less tools, not more as they get older. Getting practice, fucking good practice in tool less magic is huge fucking progression.

Cold Days "action" takes place over... 2 days?

Shin Games, Harry is left on Demon Reach to study it for about 9 months I think. Its outright said Mab froze the lake for a lot of it and people FUCKING HATE going to the island. Michael specially says he is amazed Thomas and Murphy managed to even go once or twice. In this time he very apparently did a lot of research on Demon Reach, something that seems to be vital to the plot and would be hugely negligent of him not to. As mentioned he had Zero ways of settling up a lab or doing to much, but he did make a staff and rod and a shitty shield bracelet.

Skin Games action, 3-4 days. And everyone seems to forget he went toe to toe, with a fully blown motherfucking capital W Wizard, with the knowledge of fallen angel, in a straight up fair fight, and fucking cleaned the floor with her.

Time to PT and BG. Another half year or so. In this time he moves back from the island into a apartment, becomes a full time Dad starts, starts to get his shit together with Murph.

So to summarize, since having his life ripped apart, killing his former lover, taking a bullet through the chest and selling his "soul" to Mab we have.

3 Days as a Ghost
3 Months Physical Therapy. Training somewhat in toolless magic.
2 Days of balls to the walls action which he was thrown into the deep end for.
9 Months stuck on a creepy island with little to no support, migraines and study of a ancient exotic island.
4 Days of action he was again thrown in last minute and still came out on top by his knowledge of the fucking world you so dismiss.
4-6 months back in Chicago, getting his life together.

I'd say at absolute fucking best, Harry had half a year of real time here to do anything. And thats if he had no daughter and no fall out from his past.

Taking the above, given the situations Harry was in, I would love to know when and how he could of done much more/better.

Given - He is fighting the Winter Mantle, his life was torn apart, he lost EVERYTHING, he was dead, he was marooned thinking his friends hated him.


Come on, build me your Uber Dresden? Show how he could do better with the above.

My whole point is that circumstance has been shit for Harry the last under 2 years (Yes it has only been under 2 years).

You want him more prepared? How? The whole story is about how is unprepared, not by him being useless, but by circumstance.

No he's not perfect, yeah things could be better, but honestly some of you sound like your crying that Harry is messing steps on becoming a demi god.

 

Nobody is critiquing Harry Dresden, the character. We're critiquing Jim Butcher, the author.

Maybe it's reasonable that Harry's magical abilities have regressed with everything happening in the books after Changes, though I personally don't think Butcher's done a great job justifying it. The bigger issue is that it's not narratively satisfying to see him go from frying a dozen ghouls with fire magic to struggling to fight them one on one by smacking them with a big stick and only using magic to facilitate hitting things with said stick or shooting them with a gun.

 

This Is where your argument falls apart* and is perhaps the biggest issue with his recent showings. It was not nine months, it was sixteen months. Cold Days occurs on October 31st and Skin Game picks up at the end of February two years later. What's more, while Thomas and Murphy hated going out to the island, it was stated they did so regularly to bring Harry stuff, and Thomas for one is currently richer than God. And you say he had zero way of setting up a lab, but, um--

We open up Skin Game on Harry running through the tunnels of Demonreach, shouting parkour a bunch.

The fucking hell he didn't have time. He had nothing but time for sixteen fucking months. I mean, holy shit, how do you not work on shit just to keep yourself busy when you're left out on an island with nothing to do for over a year. Hell, half the cause of SG is that Harry was waiting around for Molly to get his messages to come remove his brain parasite, and Mab was blocking his calls--but he never ever tries to work on it himself? And then, Harry kicks himself, in both Skin Game and Peace Talks, for not taking the time to work on his arsenal. Guess who's fault that is?

The hell he's unprepared because of circumstances. When you think to yourself:

And you still don't actually do anything about it when given a house and a bag full of diamonds, that's not a matter of circumstance anymore. Yeah, Harry was busy getting his life back together. Harry also doesn't have an actual job, lived expense free, and Maggie goes to school during the day--and there comes a point where you have to get your shit together, especially after doing basically nothing for sixteen months.

*Sorta. Let me be clear, I'm absolutely not fine with Harry's progression as a wizard prior to this, and periodically want to puke fire every time an FFN or AO3 crossover between HP/DF calls Harry D. smart or prepared or rags on HP not doing anything to prep for Voldemort. I'll be the first to say HP could have gone to the school library more, but it's a school library--bust Dresden lived with a terrifyingly knowledgeable magical super-assistant for fifteen fucking years and didn't know what vampires were?

 

Hmmm I get your point but I kinda disagree.

Or not so much disagree, but, you want to read a style of story that this isn’t. That’s fine, read another story.

The story is what it is, he is focusing on character and the resultant of loss. It’s a story arcing 15+ years. Life happens.

Edit: ninja by Ryuugi

Yup just checked your right about time between Cold Days and Skin Games being more. But the circumstances are the same, so I don’t think it changes the over all circumstances to much.

Harry is running around saying Parkour, partly to tire the mantle, partly as training, and I bet, mostly cause he is bored.

What should of he done in that time, with what he had in hand, which is fuck all. What would you like him to do? As that seems to be the only time he is “free” along with half a year before PT when he is playing dad.

 

These statements confuse me a bit, honestly. To start with, when you change the time frame, you inherently change the circumstances--Harry had access to Murphy and Thomas during that time. Limited access, yes--Harry says half a dozen times and doesn't specify if that's separately or together, so we'll assume its together. Six times is still enough to ask your older brother for some supplies and Thomas can afford them.

You're saying that seems to be the only time he is free and that he had fuck all at hand*--and I'm saying sixteen months is more time than I've had free in my adult life, and he in fact had quite a few resources available.

*Ignoring, I guess, Demonreach's nebulous but enormous power and resources.

 

Meh I’ll agree to disagree on this point.

Harry not setting up a lab in a creepy island with somewhat limited resources, when he hasn’t no intention of living there so much as a prolonged field trip, and doing research into the island (which we see he has in fact learned a lot about the island).

I think it’s plausible he used his time rather productively but with a bit of room for improvement.

 

One point that has come several times, but does Harry actually remember anything of the Word of Kemmler? I was under the impression that he'd skimmed it too fast to get any info and could only threaten Mavra with it because of Lash having super-senses and super-memory. Now that Lash isn't here anymore, I'm pretty sure he has lost this as a weapon (which might be why the Black Court came to attack him in BG). Not sure if Bonea knows any of it.

In addition, if he does remember it, it's more of a point against his quality as a wizard: it was presented, and Mavra took it, as a near extinction-level threat to the Black Court, so the fact he doesn't use any of it or even thinks about it when his friends get killed or turned before him would be grating.

 

Maybe it’s proper black magic. Harry could only use it as a last resort, like the Darkhollow.

I think Harry remembers, and if not, Bonea would know it.

 

I'm like 95% certain that Dresden doesn't remember it in its entirety, but he does retain certain bits and pieces, likely a few brief segments that were relevant to the Darkhallow, as that was what he was focused on at the time he skimmed it.

That said, Bonea definitely has the whole book in her head.