You know, I would have thought that this would have been a good chance for DLP to prove its liberal credentials and approve JKR's revelation.

The most commonly stated argument against slash - and the only one that really stands any weight without sounding homophobic - is that slash authors turned the characters into something that they weren't. Even dark!Harry is a possibility, especially using a post-OotP divergence, but slash was just "out there". Now that JKR has said that Dumbledore is gay, this argument no longer holds weight (only for Dumbledore's character though - Harry is still definitely straight).

Another objection always used to be that slash fics just tended to be badly written and structured - the objection was not to slash, but to bad fics, which most slash fics just happen to be. Were there a well written slash fic, then yes, we'd read it. So a well written slash-fic involving Dumbledore is still on the books, even taking into account DLP's arguments.

A final objection is based on readers identifying with the characters. I, as a reader, am straight, so if the main character is gay then I can't identify with him, so I don't like the fic. This is really the only objection that still stands.

After thinking about this some more, I've actually come to the conclusion that I wouldn't mind seeing a well written fic of Dumbledore's youth, involving Dumbledore/Grindlewald slash. Of course this couldn't be all that the fic was about - it'd have to be about Dumbledore's family situation, his magical development and his ambitions etc. too - but the gay romance would play a big part in it. And I don't think I would mind, now that it's canon.

Out of all the possible couples that could have been chosen to be gay in the HP series, I think Dumbledore and Grindlewald are quite a good choice. They're both powerful, clever, charismatic, interesting characters that we want to know more about and a relationship between them actually makes a lot of sense. They were so brilliant that they were in a class of their own - it was only to each other that they could relate, drunk on their meteoric successes and ambitious plans.

But yes, giving the information out of the books was a bit underhand. It does sound like she meant to make him gay all along though, it's just she was scared to do it before the whole series was published.

 

...Or you could just say you don't want to read about two dudes fucking just as much as you want to watch gay porn.

It's not homophobic to not be interested in homosexual material.

 

I never said it had to be gay smut. It is possible to write a romance without sex, either by leaving it out or through only alluding to it and not writing it explicitly. In fact, JKR hasn't commented on Grindlewald's persuasion. It could be unrequited love.

Pretty much just a more vulgar rewording of this:

 

It doesn't have to be smut for me to now want to read about a homosexual relationship as it's not something that interests me whatsoever.

 

Well ... now we know what he saw when he looked into the Mirror of Erised. Oh, sweet jesus, who knows what he was doing invisible in the back of the room as Harry looked at his parents.

 

Probably being quite upset. The man is over 100, his sex drive has probably completely vanished, the man that he fell in love with he was forced to kill and was involved in the death of his sister. Not exactly prime wank material there.

 

Ah, your wit seems pretty dry today, Rainstorm. I guess I'll be serious then. JKR's post-series revelations seem to be falling much more in the category of political gain then plot-hole-filling. What does Dumbledore's homosexuality have to do with anything important in the book? Their is no plot-hole or strange circumstance that would justify her response besides something on her political agenda, which that article someone just posted also seems to recognize, though in a more positive way. The fact is, Rowling's a fucking author of a good series of fantasy books. She isn't Thoreau or Machiavelli. I don't care about her ideas about life, I want to read about Harry Potter.

 

first thought that came to mind WTF. I wouldn't go as far as to say that this ruins the book to a certain degree but it takes alot away from the book. Who wants to read about a gay headmaster manipulating people. Nowhere in the story can you ever allude to the fact that dumbledores gay or that anyone in the story is gay. This not only ruins the fanfiction that was slowing down but it ruins the impression that i had of the story. This was an unneeded worthless piece of shit information that had no place in the Hp world.

F@#K U JK ROWLING!!!

yea i thought that too, its as if she had this whole entire plot set up and then half way through book five she went in a totally different direction. I thought it was just the press and money but now im not to sure. I'm wondering if there was an outside influence or maybe perhaps she hersel;f read too much Fanfiction? The whole snape being the prince and everything was the beggining of the end.


Didn't she say in an interview that the last word of book seven would be "scar"?

Edit: Stop double-posting. -DS

 

Naughty double-poster!

I have but one serious thing that I would like to mention before I let this conversation continue on without me:

Put yourselves in the shiny high-heeled shoes of our esteemed author. She has put her time in a literary work that any of us would be proud to own, and of course, reaped the benefits. Personally, I feel that up and until this point, JK Rowling has earned her place as the object of our envy. She has written seven books, which thus gave life to seven movies, two of which have yet to be made. In my personal opinion, she has conquered the world of literature, at least as far as she possibly can. Even she must know that she is nothing compared to the great authors of all-time; she was just lucky enough to hit the right niche at the right time.

Now, sitting atop her mountain made of hundred of millions of dollars, she must wonder to herself, "What do I do next?"

All I'm saying is that pointing at Dumbledore (who is an easy target to make her beacon of homosexuality) and, after the stories have reached the hands of multitudes of fans, pulling him "out of the closet", is not just an attempt to make more money off of the books. Instead, I believe her hidden agenda is to remain in the limelight, which she is now accustomed to, and cement herself into the public eye as something other than "That chick that wrote the Potter books."

And, in my own personal opinion, it's going to backfire in the long run.

Oh, and fuck her for making those of us that said "What?! NO!!" when it happened seem homophobic. Fuck her.

That is all.

 

Actually, Gellert Grindelwald was locked up in Nurmengard for ages, and Voldemort killed him. JKR did originally imply that Grindelwald was dead, but that was before TDH and we should remember that she likes to reverse herself and drop bombshells on occasion.

"Snape killed Dumbledore" is certainly an anvil-sized bombshell.

And we shouldn't kid ourselves - how many of us were totally blown away that Dumbledore had been friends with Grindelwald at one point? That, even minus the homosexuality factor, is a major "Whoa" moment worthy of Keanu Reeves.

JKR just decided to drop a nuclear-bomb sized bombshell this time, is all. I think, in the main, I agree with Taure now. Although I must hasten to say that when I put forth my Challenge of an AU involving Dumbledore and Grindelwald going off and plotting world domination I did not intend it to be in any way slashy, and it can be written without the slash if we take JKR's words at face value concering an unrequited love.

 

If I were slightly less mature, I would say that she did it to further piss off all the anti-HP Christians out there. They're gonna be even more pissed off now.

That said, I agree that the information was somewhat unnecessary, but there are a lot of people who want to know, I guess. And the fanfiction...at least hopefully it's gonna get rid of a lot of those people who write about Dumbledore's granddaughter/son/daughter etc.

 

I tend to side with Bioplague and Gio on this issue. While I understand that to some people, making Dumbledore of all HP characters gay would seem more plausible, I feel JKR is merely reinforcing the stereotype that to be quirky, weird and non-conformist is to be gay.

This is definitely a ploy for more media attention, that much I am sure. She could have picked a much more minor character to be gay- say, Elphias Doge. It would still be expressing her support more liberalism and gay rights or whatever, but the fact that she chose such a high-profile character merely proves my point.

I don't buy the whole "He doesn't have close relationships with any woman" argument. The books mostly cover the present-day Dumbledore. I really wouldn't expect a 150-year old Dumbledore who is preoccupied with an upcoming war to be looking for romance. As for his younger days, just how much do we know of it? For all we know, he could have married a woman who later died. In fact, I had always assumed the horrible memories that Dumbledore was forced to live through after drinking that potion in HBP had something to do with his family/wife.

While I would love to read a fic on the dynamic between Dumbledore and Grindelwald, and what aspirations and ambitions they harbored, I have absolutely no desire to read even a paragraph of Dumbledore pining for the latter. Call me homophobic if you want, I just refuse to see Dumbledore as gay.

And I'm still sticking to my stand that Dumbledore being gay =/= canon. Not in the books, not canon (And don't give me the "some passages in DH implied the relationship" bull. It could even more easily imply a close friendship between two brilliant like-minded fellows). I'm sure that are quite a few who agree with my stand.

 

The thing is though, I don't think she actually meant to turn Dumbledore into a cliche.

I think she made it as a statement to her political opinion (or to be even more cynical, the political opinion she wants to be perceived as supporting) or else to stay in the spot light. In short, it was a spur of the moment decision to say that.

Thus, as she uttered the words "Dumbledore was gay" the very last things on her mind were the extravagent robes, the plum colored suit, the quirky attitude. Rather it was 'major character is a closet homosexual...yeh that'll make headline news.'

Nonetheless, you have to give her massive credit for managing to take one of the only three dimensional characters in the entire series and turn him into a caricature, after the series is finished. That's something.

 

I'm not sure if I buy into JKR making this anouncement for the sake of publicity.

I would think she would have timed it to help hype a movie after its initial opening, or that HP encyclopedia (?) I've heard rumors about. Frankly, after OoTP, I'm not sure I want to see another HP flick with all the books now out.

This seems to be more of a "open mouth, insert foot" moment where she just had to say something "cute." Hopefully followed by a visit to a doctor with a perscription to "shut the fuck up."

Even if Dumbles was swinging for the "other team" as it were in her origional character notes, its seems obvious that she took care to prevent him from being 'easily' identfied as a homosexual in the books. No one I know personally picked him up on their "gaydar" (stupid term) after reading and rereading the books every time a new one was published.

Hmm, anyway to slap a poll on this thread post creation?

 

Thats what bugs me, the "after the the series is finished" part. What does this add to the story... nothing. What does it add to Dumbledore's actions.... nothing. What does it add to Dumbledore.... nothing.

It's after the books came out so unless she's going to write about the adventures of Dumbledore then it means zilch!

So why do it? I think it's just plain media whoring.

 

I no longer want to read Harry gets Dumbledore's memories fics.

 

Lol, what does this mean for In Light of Silver Memories?

Time for a bit of selective quoting...

Lol, new thoughts upon what all those devices in Dumbledore's office are for:

 

Does anyone know if there's a video of the event available? All I've been able to find are news reports, and I want to actually see and hear her say that.

 

Just got this off Mugglenet. I may have missed something but. A: How is it a key part of the plot? Because Dumbledore followed Grindelwald's ideals due to love? Perhaps. I just interpreted Dumbledore's greater good philosophy to be down to reckless youth and exagerated opinions that he didnt really understand, but turns out he fancied a bit of Grindelwald.

B: JKR says she couldnt put such an important plot part in book 1. Fair enough, but why not put it in book 7? Of course she will claim that she did and it is upto the reader to read between the lines.


I just cant see Dumbledore being gay. Ok, he may have had an infatuation with Grindelwald but he just does not seem the type of character to try a little cottaging in a public toilet.

She has just released so much information after the book that she could have included whats the point. Like we care that Neville married Hannah Abbot and she is the landlady of the Leaky Cauldron. That was not in The Deathly Hallows. Is she just going to spurt this stuff out for the next few years. Maybe try and give fans something to bother turning up to her readings for?

 

More from the article:

Heh, it's kind of like a cripple suddenly discovering he can walk at a religious gathering.
Does anyone else find this creepy?

Hmm, I wonder if she only means Grindelwald...