If you don't run crit builds, you don't take the fury stuff at all. Actually I don't lose any arpen at all, as only 1 point out of the on hit mastery. 19/0/11 works for mana heavy AD carries.

 

If you aren't building crit, why are you even playing an AD carry?

 

The only champion I'd avoid crit on is Vayne, but even then you still get 20% from Shiv so, it's basically impossible to do. Not that I play ADC very often at all, just a theory.

ADC masteries has two options, either the standard 21/9/0 or 21/5/4.

21/5/4 obviously you take imp barrier/cleanse and the health per level, with summoner CD's and mp5 in the util tree. I'd only ever run 21/5/4 in a poke-heavy lane where you need to dominate early to trade well and even then, it's probably preferable to be duo'd with someone who knows what they're doing. Garves is an ideal ADC for it, potentially Caitlyn/MF too.

 

Lots of AD carries don't scale well off crit: Corki for instance couldn't give less of a shit since it doesn't work on his passive. Graves is better off building a double bt and shiv than going for a high crit build also, since he generally wins early or not at all. Both of those champions want high mana regen to spam spells.

 

Are you not running lifesteal quints on ADC? Early trades make quite a difference so giving up the early damage and CS for 3% lifesteal hardly seems worth it.

 

I'm running AD/AR/MR/Lifesteal which means I start with 9% instead of 6. Which means I heal about a third more than the average idiot, and outrade them pretty strongly. 1/3 more lifesteal means that after 3 hits i've got health back as if I'd hit you 4 times. It really adds up on creeps also; I'm basically starting with a vamp scepter, only I only get the dorans heal.

Early on, 5% of 70-80 damage isn't really much, which is the only thing i'm missing out of the attack tree that you're getting. But i'm also casting about twice as many spells as most ADC do because I don't have to worry about mana (I run mp/5 blues also if I can) so on guys like graves and corki, I can do a lot more damage with spells than most can. I just enjoy the 9% lifesteal start, so I do it. Thought i'd share with the class, even at 1k damage. 5% damage on targets below 50% health is 50 damage.

 

Oh, I don't see any problem running 9 in utility for the extra mana regen. I usually do that too.

But oh my goodness, am I reading what you guys are saying correctly? That Crit doesn't scale well on AD carry? Wtf. Even if their abilities/passive don't crit, it doesn't mean it doesn't scale well. If you are auto attacking, if you are building AD, then Crit will scale really well. That's all it is. Granted, it's true that some AD carry benefit more from it (those with attack speed steroids for instance), but Crit is always a good/needed stats on ad carries. No exceptions. How much crit to get is a good question for math crunchers, but 5% crit from masteries is really really good.

 

The entire point of an ADC is to load up on AD -> IE crit so that you can destroy tanks. If you don't have any crit then you're god damn worthless as an ADC unless you provide an ass-ton of utility, which still means you're no longer an ADC.

 

It's impossible to avoid the crit masteries - and anyone with a braincell wouldn't, you get attack speed when you crit, why the hell wouldn't you take them?

As I said, avoiding crit isn't the best idea, but on an ADC like Vayne and as someone else said, Corki, there are simply better items you can get, but you'll inevitably end up with 20% crit or so minimum due to them - just stacking it isn't a good idea, unlike Ashe or Caitlyn who scale incredibly well off of crit itself.

 

Uhh... no.

Forget about the abilities and what they scale with, it doesn't really matter when you're talking about carry kits. Look at Tristana, her abilities all scale with AP and she's one of the hardest scaling carries in the game. Abilities mean fuck all when you're talking about carries because they scale hardest through items. The way that attack damage, attack speed and crit chance interact with each other is what makes a carry, well, carry. If you're ignoring one of those stats, you're massively lowering your damage.

So yes, Corki's passive doesn't work with crit. That's true. It's also completely irrelevant because you know what does work with crit? All that attack damage on the Bloodthirster you rushed and all that attack speed on the Blade of the Ruined King you bought second.

 

Alternatively you can run double bt into ruunan's hurricane and wreck teams with your autoattacks dealing 300+ damage and 90 true damage on 3 targets. As a whole I think the entire "marksman" mechanic is bullshit: no one should be able to buy 50% more damage on a mechanic they stack because it's the best way for them to do their job. I don't ADC if I can help it for this reason; the entire role is unfun and unbalanced by it's very design. ADC are the only that gets to be both safe (in terms of how many escapes they get, and how well they can straight up sustain over time and in a fight) and deal the most damage in the game. Normally the game says "one or the other" but in this case, they get a free pass because that's what riot wants. I can disagree all I like, and enjoy other, more 'fair' classes (burst then die, continual safe but sustained damage, etc.) without an issue.

I'm not saying "this is how the game is" i'm saying "the way the game is set up inevitably favors ADC, because there is no reliable way to kill them or replace them in a team set up. Which is straight bullshit, we've seen AP less teams work very well, there should be no reason why an all AD team is inherently better than an all AP team.

 

I don't see what you are trying to say with how the game inherently favors ADC. It's simply not true. You could say that they are usually the biggest threat at late game, but more often than not, early-mid game is when AP carries dominate. Most games end during mid-game. Of course, a fed ADC would be monstrous during mid game. But the same applies to a fed AP carry.

 

The game favors ADC. Can you win a competitive, tournament level games without an ADC? No.

Can you win the same game with an APC? Yes.

Similarly, at the end of the game a fed ADC has more impact on the game than a Fed APC. An ADC can push objectives more quickly, has a higher sustained damage stream, and may even have higher burst potential than the same APC. They will have higher sustain, and probably about even, if not higher, mobility (both in terms of dashes and walking speed) with more self-peel abilities.

Even just theoretically there's no way to compare the two, as the game goes longer an ADC will use his primary damage dealing ability more often (his attack speed goes up), with a better ratio (except Veigar ultimate, every skill in the game has an AP ratio of less than 1), and he will have access to better sustain (spell vamp is inferior in almost every regard to lifesteal, since the majority of abilities in the game only access a third of it).

Of the qualified "hypercarries" of the game, how many of them are NOT ADC? I'll wait, because from where I stand every nominally recognized hypercarry is an ADC. Twitch, Vayne, Kog'maw, Tristana are widely regardedly as the strongest carries in the game if they reach late game (which given the skill of most teams, happens more often than not).

At the end of the day, the evidence is strong in favor of ADC. No one ever plays "protect the kassadin/karthus/any AP ever" comps, and every single AP built around comp (anivia stall comps, poke comps, etc.) have all fallen out of favor or nerfed into the group. It's not that "a fed APC is worse than a fed ADC at every moment of the game" but that "inevitably, a fed ADC is worth more throughout more parts of the game than the same amount of kills on an APC" because of their ability to duel through sustain, to take objectives via their high auto attack damage and it's higher frequency, and their better scaling (because I.E. means that every autoattack that crits -which is normally about 50%- actually has 2.5% scaling).

Most games do not end in the mid game. Nevermind solo queue, during 'super week' the average game went to 38 minutes. That's definitely not mid game.

 

The game's been getting more stupidly tilted towards ADC ever since MF. They keep adding more utility, more early gaming, more escapes.

The entire game's balanced on the ADC yet ADCs are the one role that must always remain in power.

This will always remain true as long as crit exists. Even if they change crit, most of the ADCs played now can all easily build bruiser and still unload ridiculous damage. Just look at blue Ez.

Hell, it's depressing when Draven, in 4 autos with skill use in between, can burst down a player in about the same time frame as an equally geared Talon.

Or how an MF ulti from range can hit harder than Xerath's full ulti dump.

 

Most of the pro players agree that the impact of ADC has been much lower in season 3 than it used to be. Season 3 is more geared towards mid laners.

 

That would be because S3's seen an influx of gap closing assassins who can stick to their tagret like nobody else can whilst doing ridiculous damage, but at the same time have the ability to get in and out again rapidly should they require it. It's a thankful change from S2 where you'd see Graves/Corki/Ezreal get big in every game and teamfights boil down to 'protect your ADC.' Combined with the crippling nerfs to practically every bruiser, it's almost going back towards enforcing this S2 meta.

I honestly feel like C9 do it better than most other teams, and arguably Fnatic in the European scene when it comes to playing the game. I hate teams like CLG and to some degree EG much as I support them, for dragging games out. Not that EG do it as much anymore, but usually it's because they're scared witless about throwing an advantage which given the Western scene's fixation on Baron, nearly always occurs.

Now CLG, honestly I can respect Dlift's abilities - when he actually has a good day but outside that I simply hate the guy and the way CLG play. My full respect to Nien for getting onto CLG with his mechanics but that team needs to diversify who does damage. Superweek showed if Dlift gets caught, CLG are fucked because they pump all their farm into the one guy who still can't position well in a TF to save his life - much as he may criticize Zuna for the exact same thing.

Late game will always revolve around ADC's because they're the ones who should be putting out heavy sustained damage onto the closest possible thing, by then the APC's or the bruisers/assassins/whatever's left should be fed enough or slippery enough to get through the frontline, find a way around or to outplay the enemy ADC and kill them to stop the damage, usually because they revolve around burst - Diamond being a great example in Game 1 against Gambit yesterday, he found Yellowpete every fight, but his team was too weak to capitalise on it.

I just hope we see a move away from gap closing champions now, as well as assassins and fucking revive passives, it makes the game so much duller when you think you've netted 2 kills only for them to survive without having to spend 2600g.

 

At the current meta game, ADC act more like cleanup and damage/cc sponge.
The teams will always target the adc's first, partly because of habit, but also because of the ridiculous damage they can dish out if left unchecked.
However, season 3 is all about the midlaners. It is glaringly obvious in the European scene, where the midlaners are always the MVPs and the carries, but the Koreans know this, as well. I don't particularly watch any other scene, but I'd bet good money that the same goes everywhere.
I remember the video in the LOL Summer Lesson, where two of Koreas top ADCs expressed their annoyance that ADCs have basically become super minions to push towers.


Also, someone above mentioned that in the late game, an ADC can outduel anyone short of an equally fed enemy ADC. This is ridiculous to the extreme. In the current meta, the only person the ADC can outduel is the enemy support and ADC, and maybe the jungler, because junglers in S3 usually build utility.
If the enemy toplaner manages to close the distance to the ADC, the ADC is dead. If the enemy midlaner, in the late game with almost full build, lands half of his combo on the carry, the carry is fucking dead. In a ADvsAD 1v1 situation, it usually comes down to who initiates. Initiate first, win.
This all takes in mind equally fed people, in the late game.
They do deal damage, but they are not duelers, unless their enemy is far less fed. The usual midlaner has a much better burst than an ad carry, and lifesteal won't save anyone if they're dead within two seconds. Lifesteal helps in prolonged teamfights.

 

But you can't critical strike towers. So if adc were only useful for tower pushing, then a crit build should never happen because you're spending money on an attribute that had no connection with your job (pushing towers). The crit build is for killing people faster than they kill you, which most do admirably. Better in fact, once fed or farmed than any other class in the game.

In the mid game, all classes of characters are equally useful. Anyone who gets fed at this point is strong and can change the way the game progresses in their own way. My point was that in the game of inevitability, the ADC is favored advice all else. They scale hardest, have the highest DPS, many have peel abilities and all have high sustain. A fed ADC melts towers, Baron, and other players (who they are ahead of by virtue of their being fed and the opponent not) with near indiscriminate care for what they're attacking unless it is able to burst them basically instantly, or in 2-3 seconds.

How many times have you watched an ADC kite and sustain back to full after a bruiser jumps on them? How many times have you seen an APC do the same? Or how many times did an ADC survive a fight with a sliver of health, farm a jungle camp to full, then push an objective?

 

They melt other players if other players just stand there, or are attacking other targets. The ADC is about as dangerous as he is squishy. That is why there are full comps based around protectng/diving the ADC.
As the game stands now, a fed APC can almost instantly melt an ADC. Some can do it without even taking any damage, if they manage to hit a couple of their abilities (Ahri, Fizz, Diana, Twisted Fate come to mind).
The ADC does deal more damage, generally. They are the team's main damage dealers. That is their sole purpose, to get off as many autos as they can before dying. This is dependant on their team protecting them, because the only one who cannot kil an ADC is the support.
If the ADC is standing in the backline, unpetrubed, and happily hammering away, then all is peachy. Even so, as the game stands right now, it's the midlaners who have the most impact, who make the plays, who decide teamfights, and win the mid game.
Season 3 has also seen rise to the likes of Zac and Aatrox, who bring insane cc, tankiness, damage, and gap closers.

I'm not saying that I necessarily like this state of affairs. I prefer to play bot lane, personally. But this is the way it is. As the game is, the perfect time for the AD Carry to shine is when one team is sieging a tower, and both teams are awkwardly walking around doing nothing.
Auto attack a target, force to go to base, and take down the tower before they come back.
It's getting harder for ADCs to continually deal damage in teamfights, what with all the gapclosers in the current meta.

 

We appear to high be arguing that the other person's main role has more influence on the gam, lol. I think I'll agree to disagree.

Although I need to get back in practice. I've been playing top a lot. Unrelatedly, I'm on a monster losing streak.