It's not about preference. SR is literally the main game mode in LoL.

Primary route in MOBAs is their SR equivalent first and then branch out, not the other way around.

 

Agreed. Crystal scar doesn't even increase your wins count, as far as I'm aware.

Now for the long winded explanation of why Summoner's rift is better.

Pretty much, Summoner's rift is often said to be 'slow' and 'tedious' because it's quite tactical. Leveling and gold are something you actually have to focus on. Killing minions is a main objective. In Dominion, they just give you gold for having towers.

There's also placement of champions on the map. It's very important that someone goes Jungler, and not just because of ganks, control, and smite (which is essential for baron/dragon). It's about farming and levels.

An AP never duo lanes if they can help it because AP's are level dependent. Thus, you place an AP in mid for sure, and the other place you might have them is top and in the jungle. You never have an AP in bot, for that reason.

That's why you stick an AD there. They need items, rather than levels. Also, that's why you put a support there.

With Dominion? Just stick shit anywhere. Anything works, especially fucking heimerdinger. Well, besides some tanks.

 

Basically this. The only advantage over Summoner's Rift that Crystal Scar has is more EXP and (possibly) more IP per game.

While both are certainly objective-based, it's far easier to steamroll a team on the Crystal Scar than Summoner's Rift, because after a team a fight you can go capture a few towers then recall to base, freshen up, and go back out.

In Summoner's Rift, as was said above, tactics are huge. Your jungler pulling a successful gank is probably going to be the difference between you taking a tower or being locked in a stalemate. Or worse, depending on your teammates, you losing a tower.

On a personal note, people that don't call MIA deserve a special place in hell. I can't play mid while being constantly ganked, and the fact that I have to ward both of my river bushes - our support apparently had no idea what wards are - essentially fucked me over in the items department.

AP champions are far less dependent on on items than AD champs, it's true, but all the same, me having to constantly set wards to prevent being ganked because our support doesn't know where they are in the shop screen sets me back, enough that I had double doran's rings + sorc shoes against a guy that just picked up his needlessly large rod for Rabadan's, as well as the above.

TL;DR: If you play support, buy wards. Also, call MIA, even if they're only off your screen for a few seconds. The amount of times I've been saved from ganks and saved teammates by MIA calls is astounding.

 

Really, the only advantage I'd see for Dominion is the fact that it's a quick game. I would play it if I have only half an hour to spare but otherwise, it's always Summoner's Rift for me.

 

The best advantage in Dominion is learning how to duel against fed enemies. It's the one place where you learn how to actually handle yourself in a 1v3 and come out the winner.

Dominion is the best place to learn to counter builds and champions.

 

Not too hard.

Damage => Disruption > Tank

 

I actually think there's a lot of tactics behind Dominion, it just hasn't had a chance for all those tactics to develop yet. People I play with still treat Dominion like a deathmatch mode instead of the capture and hold game it really is. That'll change when Dominion ranked is introduced though.


For lane comps, don't restrict yourselves too much. Just look at how much Summoner's Rift has changed already. This time last year, NA teams were still sending their AD carries mid, with AP top and tanks bot. They had three solo lanes, a jungler and a ganking roamer like Alistar, Taric or Poppy who'd float around between lanes warding, ganking and soaking up a little xp in each. They thought that the 'euro style' AD/support bot lane with AP mid was dumb.

Yes, people generally send an AP mid now for easy access to blue buff and the early level advantage, but Corki, Tristana and the new Sivir are all perfectly viable mid picks. Caitlyn can completely shut down an enemy mage early game with her ridiculous range. Talon's strong burst and silence can do the same thing. Countering the enemy AP can sometimes be enough to win a game all by itself.

Putting your AP bot with a babysitter isn't ideal for levels, but it does safely get them gold. Laning with Soraka can really help champions who are especially mana hungry (like Anivia). Laning with a support in general helps those with piss weak early games (like... Anivia) survive to the point where they start being a threat. A squishy AP assassin like Akali or Fizz who quickly get out of control when they have items can be terrifying to lane against when paired with a CC machine like Alistar, Blitzcrank or Leona.

 

Your ignorance is showing.

---------- Post automerged at 11:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:50 PM ----------

Troubles vs Shen, you say?

Read and ask there.

 

Shen has always been my favourite tank, but for months I haven't been able to play him. His abilities were always terrible compared to every other tank in the game and then Riot nerfed the shit out of his already low damage when they were trying to stop the whole global ultimate split pushing thing. Well, Shen got buffed this week.



This is normals so not the greatest players in the world, but I'm pretty sure Shen is broken and you should abuse him while you can. Also you should ignore the Corki game, because a fed jungle Ezreal and a fed Ryze are kinda hard to deal with when they all appear in your lane at once

Anyway, Shen isn't a troll pick anymore. He's good now. He's very good. He's "I'll never get to play him in draft mode because he'll be the first ban" good. I literally feel guilt when I play him, because it just isn't fair on the enemy team. He can solo top, support bottom or sit in the jungle without any problems. I suck at jungling, but it's basically impossible to fail when your champion has more sustain than Warwick and can gank as hard as Rammus. I've gone solo top against Gangplank and dominated him. Had a game where I went bot with a Leona and crushed the enemy Vayne/Blitzcrank. I haven't lost a single Shen game since the patch.

I just hope the inevitable nerfs aren't too brutal, because I love Shen and I'd like to be able to keep playing him without being a liability.

 

ElDee, you realize how stupid the majority of normal players are, right?

In just the games you mentioned, you literally got the ideal lanes for Shen to dominate. GP has piss-poor harass without lucky crit. Shen's rank 1 Feint can shrug off 25% rank 5 Parley damage before factoring in Armor. GP has no sustain or defensive mechanism to speak of while being a major resource whore that loses out vs any high-sustain top.

Vayne and blitz are a kill comp that focuses on getting enemies close enough to hit, but Shen loves when he can get close because that allows him to unload and CC. Vayne literally can not harass shen without getting eaten alive by his combo. You also had Leona who could up your damage a ridiculous amount and chain CC with you for a perma-stun.


Shen is good. He's finally on par with other tanks. He is not broken because you got lucky enough to fight people who naturally lose to him in lane.


To go head-to-head with Shen, you need three out of these four qualities:

Durability
Sustainability
Harass
Zoning

GP had all of one of these, so yes he's going to lose. Vayne + Blitz had two of these put together.


Try going against a smart Irelia, Akali, or WW. You're going to be getting rolled.

 

Heh, believe me, I know how bad people in normals are. Thing is, I'm just as bad as they are and suddenly I'm dominating.

Agreed that Leona/Shen is basically the perfect counter to AD/support lanes, much like the Jarvan/Leona lane that team Goose like to play. But with how easy it was to ignore Vayne's damage, I don't think it'd be too different against anyone except maybe Kog'Maw. His %health damage is nasty.

I've mostly been jungling so I don't really know how he is top. I can see Irelia being a tough fight, she'd probably win on paper but I rarely see a good Irelia so it's hard to judge. Warwick would be difficult to harass down if he has enough mana regen for Hungering Strike, but I'm not sure if he can beat Shen himself. Akali? Yeah... not so much. Her sustain isn't all that great and while her harass is strong, an early Negatron can take care of it. Same goes for Shen of course, but Shen can at least still take damage even if he can't dish it out. Akali folds like an origami swan early game unless she builds towards Rylai's first, in which case her sustain is going to suck and Shen should be able to force her away. I don't see her winning without getting jungle help, in which case the other two lanes should be laughing.

 

You do realize that different champions have different skill caps, right?

It's like freaking Mordekaiser, Xin Zhao, Yi, and Trynd. They completely stomp low Elo games but anyone decent can and will shut them down by even if those champs become fed.

Are you kidding... Taric + Any support would cockblock Shen if Taric is warding. Same with Alistar, Soraka, and Janna.

It's not the carry that needs to change. It's the fucking supports that have zero ranged CC or sustain/trading ability.

Vayne and any other ranged carry can and will get destroyed Shen at bot lane unless their support is good enough to CC Shen when he comes in for a dash.

You don't know how to play.

Just because people are shit, doesn't mean the champ won't win when it's equal skill levels. Irelia stomps Shen. Hard. So hard, it's not even funny. The only time she can't out-sustain and damage Shen is from lvls 1-2, because she doesn't have her entire skill rotation yet.

WW autos for good regen, gets some extra items to back up his sustain/durability (Spirit Visage), and trades way more damage than Shen deals using Q and some autos or just Q minions every 9s~ (Easily doable with Doran's start) to shrug off harass.

Akali has nearly equivalent sustain as Shen, when you actually know how to rune her and she can easily shrug off Shen's taunt using Shroud. How is healing 8% off of 90 Base + .8 AP bad sustain (Rank 1 Q)? You do realize that Shroud nullifies all taunts, right? Yes, it stops all taunts from working. An Akali in the bubble will never auto-attack from getting taunted. That means a good Akali will Shroud your taunt then wreck you with a Q-auto-Q while having boosted defense.

There's also this simple item called "Mercury Treads" which provides more than adequate defense against Shen's early game while still letting Akali harass and trade with Shen way in her favor, if she's any good. Akali can also very easily zone out Shen hard using that Shroud.


Seriously, Iztiak is right. While most of DLP is intelligent, they can't play.

 

No, Shen will win (assuming the skill levels are equal). Akali simply cannot match up to Shen. Also, the bubble doesn't mean anything when a taunt can bring Akali visible again. (You'd have to be good enough to hit, but it's usually not too hard to taunt as soon as she cloaks). Fighting Irelia is just easy mode until she hits 6-7, and even then the lane will really be even. (Provided you did your job and beat her out in cs early levels). I personally have not went against WW since his buff, so I can't say anything about him. The only real trouble I have with Shen is that I zone people out so hard the lane is always pushed, inviting Junglers in.

Also, I didn't know it was possible till now, but Shen excels at bot lane support now. Good sustain for both you and carry, not to mention his taunt+ki strike does ridiculous damage to enemy carries (this is assuming your own carry will follow up). Shen literally dominates the bushes in bottom lane and the enemy support MUST put a ward in it ( I know, it's normal to put ward in those bushes but Shen basically is more of a threat in the bush than Blitz and slightly less so then Alistar). to even compete. Of course, don't take this as Shen is the best support etc, it's just saying he's viable.

Haven't tried jungle shen since update yet, so no comment on that. But yeah, I see as much Shen bans in ranks/draft modes as Shaco bans now.

 

Again, you don't know how to play decently or how the game mechanics work, judging by this post of misconception on misconception.

Shroud NULLIFIES Taunt. DO you not understand that? It literally prevents Akali from auto-atatcking unless the player Right-clicks something. That is its design. Akali can not get taunted out of a shroud, no matter how perfect your accuracy is.

Irelia will dominate any Shen that tries to deny her farm or harass her. That's the point of her E. She can and will turn any fight around when you start your combo and proceed to deal more damage back.

He has always excelled at bot lane. His entire game in lane is about early sustain + harass and getting his allies kills with Taunt. His early damage is lower than his old pre-nerf damage.

Bush wards, as you said, have always been mandatory.

Because high Elo NA players are stupid and hate anything that changes their old game-plan. That's why teams like Moscow 5 and last' year's TF team were so god damn dominant.

 

This. So much this. The NA server high-elo players are so INCREDIBLY obsessed with their precious meta that anything which changes the known variables and factors is seen as some sort of terrible intrusion.


Fail, total fail.

Is Shen Stronk? YES.

Is he OP? Nah.

And yeah, a good Irelia counters the HELL out of him. I've seen it done.

 

Basically, all of this. It makes any argument I could against Shen and actually sounds more intelligent than I probably would.

However, so this post doesn't look entirely like pandering, I'm actually going to make my own argument against Shen.

High skill-ceiling champs are just that. High skill-ceiling. It doesn't take much to be decent, but it takes a lot to be GOOD. I'll point you to my post about going 3 and 3 with Sona in my first ever Sona game. That's just understanding the mechanics of the game as well as a general idea of how to play that specific "class", for lack of a better word.

Now, the reason why I brought this up, is because of my own personal game. Before Fire Emblem arguments start coming in (PERSONAL EXPERIENCE MEANS NOTHING, for anyone who hasn't been to Serenes Forest), I'll just say that I am, in my own opinion, one of the better Viktor players out there. Notice how I didn't say 'best'? That's because I know for a fact that I'd probably get dominated by a Viktor who knew the mechanics of the game front and back, how to play the champ, and when and how to change up your build to counter something on the other team while still benefiting from it.

Regardless. Shen was shitting all over our bottom lane, which I believe was Garen/Vayne (God knows WHY that particular team comp sounded like a good idea). I went bottom and completely destroyed him at level 7. He'd been fed by Garen and Vayne, so we were more or less equal in the items and level department. Do you know WHY I shit on him in turn? Because Shen relies on getting in close to his target. He relies on his CC to take down a champ while they're stunned.

Guess what, retards? While Shen is chasing me, waiting for that perfect opportunity to hit me with his stun, I dropped my dome, hit him with Chaos Storm while he was stunned, got my shield in case he came out of that and was still alive, then killed him with my laser when he ran like a little bitch.

Moral of the story? Low skill-ceiling champs don't mean shit against high skill-ceiling champs. Shen is easy to play and get good with. Most AP champs and some AD champs aren't. Research who you play against. Know what their shit does. Likely match-ups are a good place to start (Which is why I started a game at mid getting dominated by Lux, since nobody plays her), then branch out into champs you'll see less of. It doesn't matter if the champion is low skill-ceiling or not.

Also, Riot's little bars on each Champ's screen are a good general guide, but are actually somewhat wrong. Sort of like their suggested builds.

On another note. In a game where I was playing as Ziggs, I was dominating mid lane against another Ziggs. Their jungle Yi decided to tower dive me after I killed their Ziggs and was at about half health.

I retreated to within melee distance of our tower. Yi still came in.

Commence Operation: Ring Around The Motherfucking Rosey. For those of you that had no childhood, I basically ran circles around the tower and let it kill Yi. That, children, is why you don't tower-dive someone unless they turn and run PAST their tower or you know for a fact that your burst+CC will get them.

Which is why Teemo/Tristana is OP, because you jump on someone, then you and Teemo both hit them with your DoT. By the way, Teemo/Tristana is a terrible laning choice in anything but normals, and even then I'd only recommend it if you and the guy you're laning with are actually good at the champs.

 

I keep hitting W to move.

 

No. I don't think you know what you are talking about. Shroud does NOT nullify taunt. That's like saying just because you are invisible you are invulnerable to cc. Just no. (For the record, the taunt works on twitch and eve as well).

And I don't think you've gone against a good Shen. Shen's poke in early games is far superior to Irelia the first 5 levels. If Irelia decides to trade hits, Shen still comes out on top due to Ki Strike and the heal from Vorpal blade. This is not even taking into account any reduce damage from Taunt, but Shen player generally don't use that too often just for poking at top lane since it drains energy quite fast and constant vorpal blades are worth it more unless you believe the taunt will get u the kill or them to low health. Of course, I'm saying Shen will stomp on Irelia. Like I said, once they hit 6, the lane should become even on both sides, but only if Shen took advantage in beginning.

That's a NO too. Shen has always excelled bot lane? Wtf o,o The only reason why he's better now is since the Taunt starts at 1.5 sec, so you don't have to level that up immediately for it to be of any use, the reduce damage he gets from the taunt, also the increase Ki Strike damage. Btw, why would you think his early damage is lower? Unless you are building AP Shen, his early damage has increased dramatically.

 

Are you that god damn stupid or have you just never played Akali. Give me your damn name right now, and I'll invite you and you can taunt me all you want with Shen. I'll laugh.

Case in point: bad player being bad.

Ki damage = W damage
Blade damage = Q damage
Blade Heal = W heal
E stun >>>>> Anything else.

That's the entire god damn point of Irelia. You hit her, you heal a bit, then she rushes you and you're down a lot of HP in exchange. Get it through your god damn head. I'll even play you with this match-up to own your ass all day and night.

Yes, he always was good at bot lane. His entire point was endless harass from Q while being in the bush and giving his ally a heal.

Yes, his damage is lower.

God damn READ, you moron:

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1832848&highlight=shen+math

 

This part is half-right. So is Evan Tide. But you're both also half-wrong. In a way, Shroud DOES nullify taunt, but it also doesn't. The reason why Shroud nullifies Taunt is because a smart Shen won't use it while the shroud is up. Akali can move anywhere inside of that shroud, and Shen doesn't want to waste all of his focus on a miss.

But what you're interpreting Evan's post to say is that Shroud kills taunt like GP's oranges would.

Wrong. Assuming two players of equivalent skill level - let's say they're both 1500 ELO -, Irelia will shit all over Shen, for the exact reasons that you talked about. At that point, intelligence and overall skill will begin to factor in. An intelligent Irelia will know that they need to kite Shen for the first 6 levels, and zone him out if they can. While easier said than done, it is doable.

You also appear to be under the assumption that junglers do not exist. I really don't care how good you are as a Shen player, you're going to get your shit wrecked in a 2 v 1 situation vs Irelia and a jungle character. Before you start talking about fairness, I'd like to point out that League is played as a team-based game. So while yes, it is embarrassing for me to go 4 and 7 in a game, it's less embarrassing for me if I'm still useful to the team, as bait or otherwise.

And this part is wrong, too. The Shen buff only affected his spells, as far as I know. That means that the things the nerf did which weren't addressed are still there.

To address your bot lane comment, what in the hell are you smoking? Average team composition is AP mid, support/AD bot, and someone else top, usually a character like Cait that can solo, and then a jungler. Considering the fact that in most games tanks = support (This does not mean that support = tank), then yes, Shen goes bot. And with an AD character down bottom as well as his own utility, why in the hell wouldn't he go bot?

As far as damage goes, you basically shot yourself in the foot. AP = Ability Power, or the damage that each ability causes. AD = Attack damage, which is how much damage your auto-attacks do. Pick one. We're arguing an on-paper argument here, with ideal runes, masteries, and items. Assuming that bottom Shen is going tank + support, he's not going to be getting an item that causes damage for a while, because he's there to soak up the damage but never really dish it out.

Also, bot lane Shen shouldn't EVER be farming, all CS possible should be going to the AD champ with him, which screws over Shen in the long-run but that's how the meta is played.

Have you even PLAYED a ranked game?

---

Ironically, I'm arguing ranked team compositions and builds, but have never set foot in a ranked game yet. There's them mechanics of the game again.