Pffft, you want a kill lane? Go play in any lane against a Fiora who builds AS. I guarantee that you'll kill them every single time. Wit's End vs Wriggles, what a fucking moron...

 

Edit: the advice about mr runes is sound.
Edit 2: and for the love of god I dont care if kass is taking a piss at his tower and you can just barely not see him, CALL THE MIA and ping lanes you see that are overextending. You beat kass by 1) not letting him freefarm pre-6 and by not letting him get stupid kills on your team).

All the advice that was given here and above about kassadin is useless and wrong. Harsh but true.

The last thing you want to against kass is push the lane to his tower (with a few exceptions). The only thing you have accomplished there is you have made it ridiculously easy for a kass to farm early on.

Also kass can run a number of different runes and mana seals are on the low end.

Since kass is generally countered by harrasment and/or ganks I run 9/12/9 on him and get flat armor seals. flat magic resist blues, magic pen reds and health regen quints. Combine that starting magic resist with the health regen and his passive and suddenly its really hard to harass him.

The way you counter kass is by hitting him in the pre-6 region, you have to shut him down or help you r team have a great game up to that point or you are kinda fucked.

good choices against kass are gangplank and pantheon. Mages that can do well are: mordekaiser, morganna, ryze, and potentially ahri.

A lot depends on the relative skills of the ppl playing. Morde will do well because he can farm and push well while at the same time harrasing.
Downside: kass gets to farm and u will get your face plowed in if the enemy jungler has half a brain-cell.

Morganna: same thing about the farming but less harass. However, a good morganna is nearly impossible to gank.

ryze does well because of his early harass. After level 6 its generally still tricky for kass assuming that ryze hasn't let u freefarm. Also ryze plus + any jungler with a form of cc is a bitch and a half to deal with.

Overall: anything that can hit him harder while remaining safe will do well against kass pre-lvl 6. If you dont zone him well pre-lvl 6 with this kind of champion, you are fucked.

If you choose a pusher you better be roaming. You push the lane really freaking hard and then roam while he farms mid.

DO realize this isn't gospel, the enemy kass may suck, he may not be able to farm under his tower (in which case hes really bad) so there you would just keep pushing the wave to him.

Also kass does rely on his jungler. If you are being aggressive as shit and his jungler is any good? you will get fucked.


And no you are not going to *outlast* kass as far as mana goes. His w gives him mana each time he hits anything so a smart kass will conserve his mana and not blow it all at lvl 1.

Sidenote: Ziggs could do well pre-lvl 6 but he will get wrecked after kass hits 6.


Here's the thing: Kass is an anti-mage, his entire kit is based on taking his foot and shoving it up the enemy ap carry's ass.

---------- Post automerged at 16:06 ---------- Previous post was at 15:58 ----------

Easily countered by something like caitlyn/soraka.

CAitlyn and soraka both stay behind their minions rather than in the bush, caitlyn traps her bush so u (nautilus) cant camp that bush and instill the fear of the deep in them). Cait then procees to abuse the fact that she ahs sustain and infinite mana by harrasing you and kog and building a gold advantage simply because it is far easier to farm in that lane matchup.

Against lower skill players you combo will wreck but once people start thinking more about the game and less about copying (and no this is not a dig at you in any way) strategies like that are fairly easy to deal with.

Another issue for you as nautilus is that you are bulky as fuck and maneuvering through creeps is a chore and on occasion a costly one.

Dont get me wrong im not saying its a bad combo, you just need to be careful that you dont counter-pick yourselves, because certain combinations will render you guys useless.

---------- Post automerged at 16:16 ---------- Previous post was at 16:06 ----------

Note: if you are playing something like an ad carry u better behind your tanks)


I cant tell you with certainty because I obviously haven't seen whats happening but there are essentially 2 possibilities.

1) Your team is a bunch of retards: basically its a great time and place for engagement, no reason not to, every reason to do so and so they go in, and just as you are about to fight they run. Hence: retards.

2) You have no (limited) game sense: example there is an amumu and an ahri on the other team and you guys are currently in tight corridors (aka jungle). Your team decides to poke a bit and draw out the enemy team or try and bait the other team into running towards you guys disorganized. At that point you should realize this and be ready, WATCH your team, if they are backing you get the hell back to.

I am assuming that number 1 is what is happening with maybe a touch of number 2. Basically try and anticipate better, but even more importantly keep an eye on your team. That wont only solve this problem but it will help you no matter what role you are playing because it is a team game and you have to be as aware as possible all the time what the hell is going on.

 

Your advice about Kassadin is stupid. He can't last hit at tower easily, no one can. Yes he can get many creeps, maybe even most, but if you are running -generic AP carry here-, you can nuke down the lane and get 100% of cs and he will miss one or two of the creeps, putting you ahead, especially since your 2.0+ AP ratio makes better use of the farm than his 1.4 ratio.

Pre 6 you harass. I figured this was pretty clear considering I said "by level 5" and "by level 7/9" to specify when you could begin to shove the lane. Even with armor/HP regen runes, your autoattacks+spells will trump his 1 spell only. You can freefarm while he can get shit on and get 2-3 creeps per wave at best. Once you get your blue buff and 6+, you clear your lane, ward up their jungle, farm their wraiths, farm your wraiths, go ganking, farm wolves, or harass him at tower. I figured by saying "shove the lane," no one would actually think I meant "push the lane very hard then go afk at your tower for ten minutes".

Yes, everyone knows that melee minions are two tower hits+1 attack and caster minions are 1 tower hit+2 attacks (or in Kassadin's case, 1 attack with W activated may be enough to get it in one hit). But it isn't as cut and dry as that. Between the hits his minions got off before you cleared them and the hits his second wave of minions will get, as well as player error, it's pretty damn easy for shitty farmers like kassadin to lose half the creep wave to the tower. Considering on top of that he is working on catching up on farm from the beginning since he shouldn't be able to farm versus anyone competent in the early game, he will always be behind.

Following your advice, you would have them try to go for kills on the antimage pre6, then just give up and rollover after that? No, after 6, you shove the lane. Your other option is to last hit in mid like a jackass, letting him be free to blink forward and harass you whenever he wants. You shove the lane and if he wants to harass he is going to miss cs.

On top of that, kass is the easiest person to gank besides maybe mordekaiser (who doesn't have the same problems with farming) and one of the weakest people to help a jungler kill someone in a gank pre 6. Post 6, it isn't an issue because you can SHOVE THE LANE AND LEAVE ALL DAY, as well as ward.

 

Churchey, Normally I respect your advice. But this is just stupid. You act like all he's going to do is sit there and try to farm while you do whatever the hell you want. Like he's not going to go ganking other lanes. Like he's not going to get blue buff himself and harass the shit out of you every time you come near the creep wave, post six.

Kassadin's first six levels are a delaying and farming time. After that he becomes a lane bully. His job isn't to passively farm boringly while you do the same. His job is to harass you, without getting harassed because of his silence, till you can't get near him (or your own creeps) without being burst down and killed.

Once that's done, he just farms the creep wave as he wishes. Since a good kass player will ward, he's nigh impossible to gank as well. Seeing as how he always has either riftwalk or flash, if he's good at all.

Boots + Pots ---> Sorc Shoes gives him the movespeed needed to trade well and avoid counter harass, especially against skillshot champs like brand, xerath, lux, ziggs, etc etc.

Maybe you just continually run into bad Kassadins, or maybe you've had bad experiences playing the character.. but you don't seem to know him at all. Which surprises the hell out of me.

But then, you're also a heavy fan of Fizz, who counters him nastily.

 

You should never be anywhere near him in terms of farm. He loses pre 6 trades to pretty much every AP, because his silence isn't strong enough to make the difference against autoattacks and AP carries with higher damage, better scaling abilities as well as hard ccs/multiple damaging abilities. After 6, you can push the lane. He can't harass you because you clear the wave so quickly. Brand W-->E, Ahri Qx2 from 1100 range, Annie W twice, Gragas Q, Ori Q-->E, etc etc. His harass at 6 shouldn't matter, because you should have double his gold worth in items, and you don't need to be there. He just ISNT that strong. He can't bully, because even with his silence you should be so far ahead on items it doesn't matter.

If he harasses at this point, he loses farm to the tower or takes damage from the creeps which is still significant. You can afford to go back based on that alone. He can't bully a lane that is only present for a few seconds every minute.

And ganking other lanes? At best he gets 2 kills if your team is shit and has 0 wards. It isn't like he can dive towers with impunity like Fizz or a tanky dps, he's actually pretty squishy as far as HP scaling and average at best for armor scaling. If he goes ganking, you can take his tower. If he goes ganking, he loses farm for not-guaranteed kills/assists. Meanwhile you can shove the lane and go ganking while losing very little.

I don't want to play the elo card, but I've been top .5% in normal games since before s1 started and the players I play against know how to counter Kassadin. Wards prevent him from ganking very easily because he has no hard cc and can't dive towers easily. I don't see him often and he nearly always leads his team to a loss because he just doesn't fill a role properly. Akali/Talon bully mids better, have more damage, higher survivability, and better teamfight ability because of stealth for the first half of the game.

Kassadin is a pubstomper that can't pubstomp as well as akali or talon or fizz, but has an easier time laning vs people who don't know how to play against him because of his silence.

 

Dignitas vs Mono. Game three. Scarra picks Soraka to go mid against Morgana.

...then dies to a jungle invade less than a minute in to the game.

 

But scarra isn't doing bad against morgana. If dominate would give him blue, he'd be doing a lot better.

Except it's like he's not calling MIAs, morgana is just wandering freely, and raping Dignitas.

Edit: Morgana Nerfs Incoming.

 

The complete lack of wards on the map and losing top turret 6 minutes in didn't help either.

 

Or the fact that Mundo rarely seems to be there for teamfights. He's not a very good tank anyway during a dedicated engage. Eminently ignorable if he isn't fed. And this one isn't at all.

 

And that's why I keep saying Soraka can be a good pick for mid lane. Early game wasn't ideal with Riven going nuts in top lane, but Dignitas turned it around by having Corki with a Taric and a farmed Soraka to keep him alive. And then he got a Guardian Angel.

 

Dignitas turned it around because Mono played horribly and clearly aren't on the same level as other pro teams. Scarra's Soraka got carried not only by Qtpie's superior damage and positioning to graves, but also by Mono's absolutely terrible focusing and Morgana's voidstaff over zhonyas build. Might as well have been trolling with a build that stupid. You can get away with that in non-organized games but there is a reason the other 20 morgana picks so far have gone zhonyas first.

There was one fight where Soraka saved corki (in combination with Leesin's well-timed kick and Qtpie's kiting), but otherwise any other mid would've done it better. There were 3 teamfights thrown because of Morgana's poor positioning and lack of zhonyas.

 

Lets hope Dignitas actually realizes that. Because against a team like TSM or CLG, running Soraka mid is just going to get you destroyed.

Prediction: TSM > Curse.

Veigar will be strong lategame, but the fight control that Cassiopeia gives them is going to be ridiculous. Veigar is quite a bit about punishing bad positioning. And TSM is going to know that.

 

Curse running a Kayle/Nunu bot lane now. Going to be interesting to see if these oddball picks continue over the weekend as the stakes get higher, or if teams revert back to their 'safe' team comps.

Maybe my dreams of seeing Lux in a major tournament final aren't quite dead yet.

 

Prediction: much rage over WHY THE FUCK ARE THEY SHOWING TSM VS CURSE INSTEAD OF CLG VS DIG.

God that's annoying. Why don't they have multiple casters?

And the casters talking about how balanced the game is and not being surprised if we see the full set of champs played, but I guarantee we won't see a heimer pick. Lux, Sejuani, Eve, Twitch, and Ori are all long shots as well. I also doubt we will see Fizz, Kass, Teemo, Sivir, and several others, though they are definitely more viable.

And I hate picks like Leesin top and Phoenix udyr, because it just forces people to play with so many people who try to do the same and fail so hard at it. Phoenix udyrs nearly universally suck dick, in spite of the strength of the character. Same with leesins top. They all think they are pro and try the Q in shield out tower harass, but end up dying.

 

Curse is cussing out veigar right now for no MIA on Cass.

 

Fizz was picked by aAa in game 2 vs CLG, Churchey.

 

And the blue wolf succeeds where Reginald fails, killing Crumbzz. But the caster doesn't recognize the blue wolf portrait.

edit

My mistake, missed that one.

 

15 minute top tower by Dyrus.

Raaape.


Also: Myst, and they lost. They tried to go an assassin comp with urgot, and got destroyed by CLG's fight control lategame.

---------- Post automerged at 09:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:59 PM ----------

TSM shows their teamwork once more. Completely ignoring the Veigar stun and destroying Curse for free.

 

And 3 for 0 in first teamfight netting them a free red and dragon afterwards, up two towers, two drags, 4 kills.

 

Curse is playing like noobs. Veig knows TSM is in the area of the TOP side of their map. And yet, he's alone in the jungle.

Fail.

... That's right TSM, FOCUS THE TANK.

-Facepalm.-


4 for 1. Plus Baron.

-Headshake- This is a stomp. Hopefully TSM speeds it up and we can watch the tail end of CLG vs Dignitas.