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Harry/Hermione without bashing and other annoying tropes

Discussion in 'Story Search' started by Stan, Jun 17, 2015.

  1. Stan

    Stan Order Member

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    Right. I don't like H/Hr. It's not that I have anything against the pairing in theory, but I despise most of the tropes associated with the ship, and this makes most of the stories with this pairing unreadable to me. Still, H/Hr has been around for a long time, and I'm sure there are a few good fics here and there, and I could definitely use a few recs.

    Tropes to be avoided :

    1. Character bashing: No Jealous!useless!Ron, Lovesick!Ginny or screeching!shrieking!Molly. I like the Weasleys and Weasley bashing = auto-fail. Oh, and no Moustache-twirling!Dumbledore either.

    2. Harry pussification: Harry shouldn't go "Yes, Mistress" at everything Hermione says. He should have his own part to play beyond Hermione's sex toy.

    3. Wizards are stupid, Muggles are awesome, All purebloods are inbred and stupid and evil, Magical society is backwards and irredeemably prejudiced.

    That will be all, I think. Oh, and the story should have a plot beyond Romance/smut. I'm not sure whether any such stories exist, but if they do, please let me know.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 17, 2015
  2. Captain Trips

    Captain Trips High Inquisitor

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    Alas, finding something like this will not be easy, most H/Hr stories fall into one of those tropes, but if you find something, I would be happy to read it too
     
  3. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign Prestige

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    This Holy Grail you're looking for may actually not exist. If you find something that doesn't do anything stupid, it'll probably be just a romance piece. If you want something beyond that, you'll have better odds if you get to writing yourself.
     
  4. Pure Infinity

    Pure Infinity High Inquisitor

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    I vaguely remember The Other Boy Who Lived by Kwan Li having a decent H/Hr romance. Don't take my word on it, as it's been a while since I read it.
     
  5. Rubicon

    Rubicon Professor DLP Supporter

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  6. Menace

    Menace Minister of Magic

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    I got you.

    Time is the Fire

    What would you do if the only way to save the person you loved was to sacrifice everything else that you held dear? DH-Epilogue compliant, sort of. Some HP/GW and RW/Hr, but ultimately, epically, HP/Hr.
     
  7. Zerg_Lurker

    Zerg_Lurker Unspeakable DLP Supporter

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    Here's an oldie but goodie: Forever Knight.
    An epic vampire saga. I still go back and read it from time to time.
     
  8. T3t

    T3t Purple Beast of DLP Prestige DLP Supporter

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    Coming Back Late by alchymie/Paracelsus is pretty good. There are more chapters on Portkey than ffn, though.
     
  9. brad

    brad Second Year

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    I was going to nominate Paracelsus's work also; he would be #1 in my H/Hr hit parade, and he always steers clear of bashing.

    'Coming Back Late' is sadly unfinished. However you'll find other completed stories on Portkey.

    Plus a full set of novels and short stories comprising his pre-HBP fanfic universe over on Fiction Alley (which in my opinion are even better than his later pieces. But that might be my nostalgia talking.)

    'HP and the Years of Rebellion' is a classic epic, sadly unfinished, by Full Pensieve over on fanficauthors.net. But his 'Last Horcrux' is complete. They're excellent and no Weasley was harmed in their forging. :)

    Author 'chemprof' on fanfiction.net wrote quite a few H/Hr stories, several novel-length, well worth reading.
     
  10. dmacx

    dmacx Groundskeeper

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    The Hermione wank in that story made it unreadable for me.

    Her treatment of Teddy at the beginning of the story makes Umbridge look like a fucking saint by comparison. Also, Ron bashing galore.

    Seconded. It's too bad that this will never be finished.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2015
  11. brad

    brad Second Year

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    Come now! She's not even close. Parsecs away.

    Show me where, in Paracelsus's story, Hermione tortures Teddy night after night.

    Nah. There's Ron bashing and then there's RON BASHING. :)

    Seriously, some stories go overboard in RON BASHING - he's a death eater, a dupe of Dumbledore, an idiot, stealing Harry's money/friendship, and so forth.

    He's nothing like that in Paracelsus's story. There he's a 'normal' man who is frustrated with Hermione, a good father to his child and still Harry's friend.
     
  12. Stan

    Stan Order Member

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    Paradigm of Uncertainty is pretty good. A tightly plotted mystery story, strong characterizations of the main characters and it has the best Harry/Hermione romance I've read. There are a few things I didn't like -- the constant references to muggle stuff, all characters speaking with similar character voice and a few other things, but this one is well worth reading. A strong 4/5. It is excellent despite (because of?) its age and I'll recommend it to anyone.

    I was less impressed by the sequel. Mostly, the new plot failed to interest me like the original one did, and the introduction of Buffy characters in the HP universe was poorly done.

    Chem Prof is a boring, formulaic writer. YoR hasn't aged very well.

    LOL.

    Harry no longer gives a fuck about Ginny for reasons. Textbook example of bashing.

    How nice of Harry. Defending his Lady's honor. By hazing Ron in the middle of the night. Just a 'little psychological conditioning'. Also, he no longer trusts Ron for reasons. How is this not bashing?

    These are hardly the only examples. Everything that's wrong in Ron and Hermione's marriage is apparently Ron's fault. Of course Ron still fools around with other women. How could he not? Ginny is no longer friends with either Harry or Hermione for reasons. Infact, she's suddenly overly naive and foolish and everyone in this story dislikes her. For reasons.

    Of course, even without the bashing the Hermione wank in the story would be untenable. She's an ultra-competent Mary Sue. She even beat Voldemort in a straight duel in the final battle. Right.

    ^This. At least Umbridge had the decency to use Veritaserum in private. This Hermione is a complete, utter bitch who needs to be put down as soon as possible. Preferably, as painfully as possible.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2015
  13. Tinder

    Tinder Seventh Year

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    It certainly sounds like the fic you're talking about is full of bashing, but the first example you give is not a 'textbook example of bashing'. It's not bashing at all.

    If you're not interested in writing about a particular character, or you're incapable of writing a character well (e.g. because you hate them), or even just because they happen not to have a part in the story you're writing, but the reader might expect them to be there, then the best thing to do is to write them out quickly and decisively without any silliness. That's exactly what happens in the passage you quote.

    Actually, people do change, especially over 15 years. That's perfectly reasonable, and if the author doesn't want to write about why exactly Harry and Ginny broke up, then there's no need for any further explanation.

    Of course, from what you mention later ("she's suddenly overly naive and foolish and everyone in this story dislikes her") the author does go on to bash Ginny, which really just shows that the author should have stuck to writing her out.
     
  14. Stan

    Stan Order Member

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    Er. Yes, it is. Yes, people change in 15 years, but these changes -- Harry's universe now revolves around Hermione, he is indifferent towards Ron, he is dismissive of Ginny -- happen because the author says so, not because they are logical in the least.

    When the author's avatars act OOC to specifically dislike another character , it is bashing.

    I'll give you this -- had this been the only instance of bashing, I wouldn't have cared much, but the author shows Ginny in a negative light in pretty much every scene she appears which I've read (that is, until the Harry-hazes-Ron scene), and it is fucking tiresome.

    Edit: Either way, all this is arguing technicalities. This story is undoubtedly a bashing fic, if not for this scene, then for others, thus failing to fulfill requirement #1. It also has the most unlikable characterization of Hermione ever. Therefore, it sucks.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2015
  15. Bramastra

    Bramastra Groundskeeper

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    Just gonna ignore the rest of the quotes?
     
  16. Warlocke

    Warlocke Prisoner

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    Ignore? Uh...
    Tinder started the post by acknowledging the other quotes, essentially agreeing that those sounded like bashing. That being the case, why would they need to be discussed any further? :rolleyes:

    The first quote was the only one where there was a stated disagreement, so that's what the post focused on. Surely that's not an alien concept.
     
  17. brad

    brad Second Year

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    I can't reply/rebut because I don't understand what you're saying - I suspect I'm not acquainted with the idiom you're using. 'For reasons'?

    Well ... yes! Reasons are given. For Ron. For Ginny. It all makes perfect sense; there are no radical right-hand twists of their characters into 'bashing' territory. They're grown, they've matured, their characters have evolved over fifteen years, with 'reasons' given as to their behaviour. So, it's not bashing.

    But that's not true. If you'd read the story you'd know this. It's something that's shown at the very start and pops up a few times along the way. It's one of the 'tests' of Hermione's character.
    So ...

    Exactly. No untenable Hermione wank here!

    Riiiight. ;) Because - instead of torturing Teddy in private - she instead invited him to a meeting. With his guardian (Andromeda) and school supervisor (a teacher) present. Asking him/them to voluntarily take the Veritaserum.

    Harken to the dialogue of a 'complex, utter bitch who needs to be put down' -

    Oh, the HORROR!! How DARE Hermione obey the law! Ensuring that she does NOT 'overstep her bounds'.

    OMG, the Senior Counsel for the Wizengamot is asking the permission of Teddy's guardian prior to submitting the Veritaserum in the execution of her investigations. OFF WITH HER HEAD!

    Shucks, how could the author have not made it any plainer that Hermione was NOT a 'complete, utter bitch who needs to be put down'? Sheesh.

    And that's exactly how Ron and Ginny are both portrayed.

    Stan wasn't correct with that either. In fact Ginny's so smart she completely pulls the wool over Hermione's (Yes! Stan's 'ultra-competent Mary Sue'!) and Harry's eyes at one stage.

    I completely disagree. Ron and Ginny are complex characters with both good and bad attributes. Nothing close to the requirements of 'bashing'. I don't think the word means what you seem to think it means. ;)
     
  18. Eilyfe

    Eilyfe Headmaster

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    Salt, so much salt.
     
  19. Odran

    Odran Prisoner

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    Speaking as someone who's got no investment in the story whatsoever, these changes that are spoken of... they only seem to have occurred for the sake of arranging Harry and Hermione being together. Which is pretty piss-poor writing.
     
  20. Stan

    Stan Order Member

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    They are? Do enlighten me. Exactly what logical reasons are there for Harry to disappear for fifteen years and when he comes back for Hermione to mean the world to him but Ron to mean very little at all? Had an epiphany during his vacation, did he now? Exactly why does Ginny go from being a good friend to Harry in canon to a vaguely annoying pest in 15 years of absence?

    Most importantly, how does Ron go from being Harry's best friend of seven years to Harry breaking into his house in the middle of the night to give him, in his own words, 'a little psychological conditioning', that includes, among other things, recreating a Dementor's aura? I cannot see canon Harry acting like this under any circumstances. And of course Ron is messing around with other girls while still married, whereas Hermione is beyond reproach. Only to be expected in a H/Hr story, after all.

    (And yet you say Ron is still friends with Harry in this. LOL. With friends like these, who needs enemies?)

    Oh, and Ginny. Every time she appears in the story, she says something mean and hurtful, some other character (Hermione, Neville etc) shuts her down, Ginny is humiliated and forced to apologize. Rinse and repeat. Even when she isn't there, other characters are less than complementary towards her, especially Harry and Hermione, both of whom were her friends in canon. Plus, she is presented as foolish and naive repeatedly in chapter 17. Her characterization is poorly done, and most definitively illogical.

    Just because it doesn't have the usual Death Eater Ron and Love Potion Ginny doesn't mean it isn't bashing. Here the universe arbitrarily decides that Harry doesn't care for Ron, and so, against all canonical logic, he doesn't care for Ron. The universe decides that no one cares for Ginny, and so none of her canon friends care for her and she is shown in a negative light in every scene. Illogical, piss poor characterizations with the author projecting his biases upon the protagonists. Bashing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2015
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