The fact that all of the children who took on the dragon did so successfully and that Harry is probably more talented than the lot them is more than enough to show that The Santi's Harry would not have much trouble against the dragon. Or any of the tasks, I mean swimming to the bottom of the lake? Making your way through a maze? Harry would have been bored.

It would have been interesting seeing him make his way through the maze though, because he could lay his own traps as he went using his new found warding skillz :awesome

 

Yes, all of those 17-18 year old, top of their class children(?) did take on the dragon and survive. Cedric ended up with a burnt face after the dragon saw through his distraction. Fleur somehow managed to put it to sleep, but apparently the sleeping dragon snorted and set her skirt on fire. Krum of course took the offense and tried to blind the dragon and ended up crushing the egg.

I wouldn't call any of these relatively speaking successes or at least not flawless victories. I mean surviving against a dragon is a victory unto itself, but notice out of the two above that succeeded they did so out of deceit and they both were injured. Also notice that Krum that we know and failed at this task is the same Krum that we know from Santi so match that against where you think Harry currently is.

Note that the tournament isn't just about doing the tasks, it's also about facing your fear and showing true courage. You seem to think it's just about swimming to the bottom of a lake. No, its going into an environment that your are unsuited. A place where its dark and dangerous and where your natural mobility and spell work that your so proud of is useless. A place your vision is obscured and any number of dangerous creatures could be lurking just outside of your 5 foot of vision. All of that's before those creature that your anticipating and fearful of, attack you in droves, where their is a real danger of death. Willing going into such a foreign environment and than once in the environment not freaking out or cracking up is a real test of courage and mental fortitude. Not dying is the skill part. It was never about swimming to the bottom of the lake. I repeat it was never a swimming contest to the bottom of the lake you dumbass.

Everyone seems to have garnered this blasé attitude about these tasks. Wake up! This is a tournament designed to simulate famous heroic deeds of the past were heros took on great challenges, beasts, and trials and overcame them. Where you can prove that your their equal...or that your not. Their is a reason the death toll is so high; your literally walking in the footsteps of great heroes who did the impossible. Yes, its toned down, but even if you cut of a bulls balls it can still gore your ass.

**edit: just to be clear those heroes would be the likes of Beowulf and Heracles. The dragon, the lake, and the maze(of the minotaur). I'm sure their are more heroes that did these, the point is that the Tournament is suppose to simulate these heroic deeds.

:facepalm

 

You´re thinking like a Muggle. Dark? Cold? No oxygen? Mildly harmful creatures? Harry already knows all the magic needed to surpass these things with ease.

 

Totally agree with Taure here. All canon Harry had to do was eat his vegetables and almost literally every obstacle he would have faced in the second challenge was overcome for him.

Not particularly spectacular.

 

Does he now? I suppose a warming charm, some type of lighting charm, and a bubble head charm would help. But what good would lighting up a muddy lake do. It would increase your vision, but not by that much. Being in the water where you can't maneuver very well and where casting a spell is harder and takes longer. I think your thinking as someone who greatly overestimates the ease at which these task can be completed.

Go to a pool, dive to the deep end and try to maneuver around and do wand movements for spells. It's not easy. It's also tiring, I mean that's a long way to swim even for someone who regularly swims and at that depth it's even more so. Not to mention your being attack during this.

Now I want you to go to a museum and go to the dinosaur exhibit to see the T-rex. Stand by it, I've been to one where it was set to look like it was attacking you with it's head set so your could see it's teeth in all it's glory. Now image that same creature just bigger, meaner, magically resistant armor, it can fly, and the damn thing can shoot flames a couple football fields long. Now imagine trying to face that. Imagine during your child hood your heard tails of how deadly this things are. Is Harry without a sense of fear?

Now realize it's not really about me thinking like a muggle and its more your thinking like this isn't reality for them. Your in magical fairly land where their is no effort or struggle to do impossible tasks, their is no real danger, and apparently fear doesn't exist. To be honest, it seems all of you have been reading to many super powered god Harry fics to really appreciate the effort these tasks take to complete.

---------- Post automerged at 04:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:04 PM ----------

Plot armor. He is basically Batman.

---------- Post automerged at 04:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:05 PM ----------

I should also mention the specific tasks aren't told to the champion. Their given clues and riddles, but your suppose to go into these not really knowing what to expect or what to prepare for. Your not suppose to know your facing a dragon, even the eggs riddle is doesn't say exactly what your doing. They basically gave no warning for the dragon, they were literally tossing you against a dragon with only a few minute warning. Good thing everyone cheated, huh?

 

tl;dr

I presume your long posts essentially add up to "Bro, you are so wrong. The tasks are SO difficult." Well, agree to disagree bro. Harry beats them with incredibly minimal skill with a wand, and the aid of a little cheating - which is all but accepted as standard practice in the tournament (I think Percy and Crouch are just about the only people who genuinely think otherwise.)

Any real difficulties this Harry would have had would have been down to bad luck or contrived circumstances from The Santi imo.

 

The more I think on this the more challenging the tasks would really be. Take the second for instance.

The beginning is literally you in front of all of Hogwarts, what ever family you have, the wizarding public, and the rest of the schools could have been champions. Theirs some stress aggravated by the fact your in nothing but your swim trunks. Most people aren't all that self conscious I'm generally not, but if a couple thousand people and some repoerters are focus on nothing but me and three other people, well I might become a little shy and really nervous. The less clothing that people wear the more vulnerable they general feel, especially when in dangerous situation. Your going to feel much more vulnerable naked in a fight than what you feel fully clothed, same thing here.

Now your told that a person you really care about is at the bottom of the lake and you need to get their. Not only that, but it's a race between the other champions some of whom get to go into the water before you. So you dive into the water with what ever magic and trick you have.

Lets talk about magical you in the water. Once again your almost naked except for swim trucks which means no magical robes or coverings. Completely vulnerable to the water(I wonder can you cast warming charms on the skin?). You don't even have your wand in hand as you can't swim with it. Harry had it in a wand holster.

Imagine having to draw your wand in the water. Imagine how slow moving you are on the draw, all that lightning quick spell casting reduced to a slow crawl. Imagine you actually are having to constantly balance yourself in the water, imagine trying to cast and stay level in the water. Nearly impossible. Adding to that the spell most likely has some type of recoil which means you'd have to find a way to stay level and balance yourself or you would go swirling around.

Of course the spells themselves work...kind of. I mean with all the pressure of the lake pushing on them they probably drop toward the bottom pretty quick and definitely the speed and range drop through the floor. So you might get off one good shot that's accuracy is just it veering down or to the left and down or to the right and down. A spell that doesn't have any real range or speed to speak off. Not to mention that spells wand movements and recoil will have you tussling all about spinning you in the water. You most likely aren't going to get off a second shot in any where near the same direction if you needed to so a swarm of anything would own your magical ass.

Now imagine you've been swimming pretty hard for say 10, 15, or maybe 20 minutes several hundred feet under water. Are you tired from having your every action cost you several times more energy than normal to do. I mean even staying in the the same spot cost you energy as you have to balance youself and prevent your own buoyancy from pulling you up. Once again your swimming pretty hard because this a race remember.

Not to mention all the psychological factors of being tired and in a dark place where visibility is low and dangers are all round. Where even your hearing isn't as good as it normally is. The unknown is one of the most frighting things in this world. Try sensory deprivation while laying in a lake. You might very well conjure up all kinds of monster right under you. Of course your physically exhausted and most likly sleep deprived and dozen other things to make you not your best. Such as the fact your probably coming down from an adrenaline high, the knot in your stomach, the blood rushing in your ears.

I want to see you when you, all big and bad, when randomly something grasps your leg in the darkness. Mostly likely you'd just be grateful that you were in the water so no one could see that you pissed yourself or screamed like a little girl. Panicking doesn't even begin to describe what you'd be doing.

This is truly a frighting place for a wizard.

Of course with magic Harry can handle it like it was nothing. With magic its easy. You know parting the lake like Moses on the red seas. Maybe having a language charm on him to masterful have the merpoeple bring him his hostage. Or using some ancient forbidden snake magic to get the dragon to hand over its eggs. Hell, maybe he should just invent a super magical locator charm and find Voldemort and all the death eaters and take them on. You know making himself twenty feet tall giant who fires fireballs from his eyes, and bolts of lightning from his arse. Maybe after he did that he could cure lycanthropy and vampirism while traveling around the world righting all the wrongs on the planet while getting his cock sucked by all the pretty girls. Than having Snape adopting him and Harry moving in with him. Maybe by the power of magic Harry really is the decent of the founders and Merlin, hell he could be one of the founder or Merlin.

You see where I'm going with this. Magic can do anything and thus that last paragraph was valid. Of course in this story magic has its own self imposed limits and in this world the tournament is designed to test the best magical students in Europe. A tournament where people regularly die in the course of it. A tournament that even with Durmstrange voldy trained Harry would struggle.

---------- Post automerged at 05:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:50 PM ----------

Than read.

I agree Harry from the original universe has some amazing dumb luck. The plot armor was strong with him to the point he matches batman.

This is what started it

I want to know in what way where those task laughable. I want someone to defend this argument. Along with that I want to know in what power and skill ranking Harry's at, because I apparently haven't been giving him enough credit.

 

Can we please not start this fucking shit again? It's been done to death, and we're all extremely clear on each others opinions on the matter.

 

To be honest I don't know any of your opinions on the magical level and skill of Harry in this story. I thought he was just fairly powerful prodigy, not some dark god level motherfucker.

 

Uh... he's above any school level kid, and above most average witches and wizards we can consider from canon, but below people that teach the disciplines? The word prodigy has been bandied about for a reason. Also probably important to note that he would be considered prodigious in all disciplines, not just one. I think the fic makes this pretty clear tbh.

I don't know what imagining yourself in a dark cold lake has to do with it though.

 

A prodigy is someone who, at an early age, masters one or more skills far beyond his or her level of maturity. He fits the definition pretty well.
**Edit, I actually read your above post wrong(bandied through me for a second), but being a prodigy doesn't require him being advanced in all fields. I'm thinking language charm. Nor does it mean he is a master at that particular thing, only that he is more advanced then is his year or maturity level.

Unless he is uber powerful and beyond all wizards such as Dumbledore than the task should affect him. I don't see any sane wizard, no matter how powerful, laughing at the ease of beating a dragon or completing the other tasks. The imagining was emphasizing this point.

 

Everything effects everything, it's all about the degree to which it is effected by. And considering that what you're trying to argue about will never happen, I see no point in arguing about it.

I'm glad we've sorted out the power level debate though.

 

Agreed.

Of course this does open the possibility that Nathan will die in the course of completing the tasks. It would be so ironic that it would work. It really would be the best year so far.

 

For every problem you present there is a very simple magical solution. Harry doesn't have to be an epic Moses parts the lake wizard to handle these problems. They can be solved with OWL level magic.

Feelings of stress and vulnerability: cheering charm.

Inability to breathe: bubble-head.

Physical strain of swimming and balancing: strengthening solution.

Sensory deprivation: supersensory charm, lumos.

Cold: warming charm.

Direction: "point me" for compass points plus researching where the Merpeople's village is before hand.

All the stuff about water's effects on spells (wtf at water pushing spells down) is completely made up by you.

Harry doesn't have a problem with silent casting either, so that's not a problem.

In short, the only thing you bring up that can't be overcome with simple magic and preparedness (and you better believe BWL Harry would figure that clue out early and be prepared as hell) is the fact that wands would take maybe 3 seconds to draw instead of less than one. That's not really a significant problem. And anyway, I'm not entirely convinced that Harry would have to keep his wand in his holster. It's entirely possible there's a charm to propel you through water.

You don't have to be a superwizard to do any of this stuff. I'd expect any competent NEWT level student to be able to complete the Lake task with relative ease. The hard part is doing it quicker than the others.

 

Can you not into atms or psi? For every 10 feet you go down in fresh water you add about 4.3 psi of pressure. It adds up after a couple hundred feet. Think the farther you go down the more pressure its why submarines have to be built to take enormous amounts of pressure or they would be crushed because they're diving to deep.

Also consider that spells are affected by solids such as a chair. If they interact with physical things than they will interact with water. Probably having a similar affect as a bullet shot under water. Veering of in random directions and range and power decreasing.

It's not made up, its SCIENCE!!!!:awesome

I'll continue with the rest soon. No doubt their are spells designed for the water, but they were never mentioned.

 

On the other hand, not one of the spells we see used underwater were moved by the water.

No indication that pressure has an effect on spells. Spells aren't tennis balls.

Yes, spells can interact with physical things. That doesn't make them physical.

 

Think you just proved his point son.

 

Yes, because being under a cheering charm in a life or death situation is such a good idea. You know feeling wonderful and happy with not a care in the world in a danger situation with things trying to kill you. Just the raw distraction and no doubt lowering of your mental facilities alone would be dangerous in these situation. Especially for casting.

This one works well, but you better cast it well or say good bye. So you know no pressure their. Add to that your time strapped.

How long do strengthening solution last? Are you tired after their use? How would this help with balancing in water? Is juicing legal in this competition. Would you have thought to use this beforehand?

Lumos wouldn't help, though you have intriqued me with the super-sensory charm. Does it enhance your own senses? That wouldn't help in the circumstances. Does it give you senses you don't have? What kind and what are the limitation and how long can you hold it.

We have already seen that these have limitations. How long would it last in the freezing water around a much better heat conductor than air. By that I mean water.

How exactly do you know what your pointing to again. You don't know what they took or that their in the village.

Having a problem and casting under stress are two very different things. Also note that spells are less powerful nonverbal.

Three seconds is a life time in battle. Realize that.

It is a major problem. Their are all kinds of ways that propelling charm could go bad and have negative effects and of course if their was such a charm why didn't anyone use it. Especially when they were cheating by getting coached thorough it by their headmasters. Also being propelled at any real speed through the water would have all kinds of negative effects.

I was talking about how they task were so ridiculous that they were laughable for Harry. Which if they were than he would be a super wizard.

Also I would really like to see how well you could actually maneuver under water. I got a feeling I would laugh my ass off at in fact. Point of fact, it is much more challenging than you seem to think to maneuver in water.

---------- Post automerged at 07:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:40 PM ----------

Are we suppose to use units of measurements not muggle when discussing the universe? I mean JK did say that wizards were still using the old imperial units instead of metric. I can do both because I'm in the states.

Knowing that water has weight and that the farther down you go in it the more weight(pressure) is pushing down on you. Now that's science, but I would hazard a guess that it is also common sense.

 

You miss my point entirely. Its magic and you're making a presumption that the normal rules of science apply.

 

Beyond being sarcastic there. While being used in science, it technically is just knowledge. Knowing that water has weight is knowledge, testing and proving it has weight and using that fact that water has weight to help understand/prove another thing has another property or explaining something is science. I would say wizards have knowledge and most likely they have science.

---------- Post automerged at 07:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:53 PM ----------

Unless specified otherwise I assume water has weight. I realize that the laws of nature bend around magic, but unless he is taking away that fact or is shielding himself or in-some way is saying the magic handled it than he's wrong.

Its magic I don't have to explain that shit. You don't but you do have to say that your magic is handling that shit.

Hence the super powered god level badass harry