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Harry Potter Spinoff Movie - Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Celestin, Sep 12, 2013.

  1. Stan

    Stan Order Member

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    Thought it was decent. 7/10, overall positive but certainly could've been better. Optimistic about the future films.


    Worldbuilding is pretty good, if limited in scope (kinda like the HP books). The movie certainly captures the certain sense of discovery in magic and the wizarding world that were most prominent in the early books. Some of the visuals are pretty great, especially those of the magical creatures. That magical trunk is brilliant. Newt's obligatory shopping trip in Diagon Alley paid off really well, it seems.

    Characters are slightly disappointing. The only character who stood out as really good was Graves. The big reveal at the end comes across much better in the script than in the actual movie. Depp isn't like how I imagined Grindelwald at all. His casting is the biggest concern I've with the series going forward.

    Newt and Tina are pretty good. I felt Jacob was a poor man's Ron. He's entertaining, but I would've liked some more substance to him.

    Did not like Queenie. These ~quirky~ characters do nothing for me, and I'm not a fan of her having super-special superpowers.

    The themes should've been explored more, I feel. The statute of secrecy is the major thing in this movie, but I don't think we got a whole lot of context surrounding it. There should've been more discussion about Grindelwald's ideals and what the people think of it than what we got.

    Overall, this movie felt a lot like the early HP books, with rather simple characters and themes, carried by the sense of wonder the magic and the still new world manages to produce. But despite not loving this movie, I'm not worried, because as with the original HP series, there are already signs that the series will be something much greater. Albus Dumbledore is entering the fray next movie, and there is a whole lot of complicated backstory to unpack with him and Grindelwald. I am imagining there will be lot more of Grindelwald's ideology; I don't imagine Rowling introduced all that brilliant stuff in Deathly Hallows only to not follow up on it. There are events like a previous war already alluded to. There are also lots of yet unexplored depths in Newt's character: his expulsion, his and his brother's role in the war, Leda Lestrange. 90% of the HP series' characterization and themes come from the last three books. I expect this to be true for this movie franchise as well. The wizarding world will yet be great again.
     
  2. ThePinkTomato

    ThePinkTomato Prestigious Tomato ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Just saw it, thought it was great. Loved the magical animals. Jacob/Queenie OTP.

    One thing that bugged me. Newt just 'deafeated' Grindelwald. Gellert stole the Elder Wand as a young man. Presumably, Newt is now master of the Elder Wand. How is this going to be dealt with???

    Newt Scamander with an older brother war hero is cool. Are there any sources on who the magical side of WWI was between?

    Really not digging Depp as Gellert. Farrel as Graves was much more menacing.

    I was also left with the impression that Creedence survived.

    Queenie--when she realised through Legilimency that Newt and Tina were to be executed, she was not near them at all, let along making eye contact. Can her ability really be called Legilimency, or can we use the bond between her and Tina as sisters as an explanation?
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2016
  3. R. E. Lee

    R. E. Lee Groundskeeper

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    Just saw it, and liked it a lot more than I expected. I never really cared for the original movies, especially in comparison to the books, but I enjoyed this quite a bit. My questions that haven't been addressed here in the spoilers.

    1. I don't quite understand what the deal was with the little blonde girl, given that it's revealed that Credence is the Obscurus. Is she one too, or not? If not, then why did she have a wand? Did Credence not realize that Graves was looking for him, instead of the girl?
    2. A big deal is made about how they American wizards don't interact with muggles, and Queenie hasn't even spoken to one before. If they're so strict on magic/non-magic interactions, then why are they located in the largest, densest muggle city in the country? Seriously, if they care that much, then it makes way more sense for American wizardry to favor Hogsmede-type segregation rather than Diagon Alley-type integration.
    3. Why is it even called the "Magical Congress of the United States?" The leader of the congress is... a president? And according to Pottermore, MACUSA was formed in the 1690s. That's eighty years before the actual United States was formed, which makes the name unlikely. This feels like JKR spent five minutes on backstory and settled for something that just sounded American-ish to her.
     
  4. dhulli

    dhulli The Reborn

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    Am I the only one who disliked the movie? Maybe 3/10. ughhh. More details:
    * For being another movie set in the Harry Potter world, there was a distinct lack of Magic! Why the fuck is Newt scrambling around trying to catch the niffler, destroying jewelry shops in the process. What kind of ridiculous premise is it where everyone's jumping over themselves trying to find a goddamn cockroach? Couldn't a 3rd year student just transfigure one?
    * There is absolutely zero insight into the American Magical Society beyond the ministry. Imagine if all we see of the british side is their ministry and nothing else. And as a result, there is a distinct lack of wonder at everything. Sure, the Jacob guy tries to instill some sense of wonder but it falls flat because he just goes along with everything and oh, maybe he's just sick from disease so that explains it.
    * And what was with the quick "you're guilty let's execute you!". Is there nothing like a trial in America of all places?
    * And queenie going around using legilimency like she's reading people's minds. Have we learnt nothing from Snape? It's not that goddamn simple!
    * And to her fascination with seeing a no-maj?!? How does she step outside her house without running into one? It's not like she lives in a magical neighborhood. The romance was contrived and I could see no reason for her affection towards Jacob. It felt forced, there was no building of their relationship, no anything.
    * Which ties right into the pacing of the fucking film. The first third felt too slow, the middle third was great and then the last third felt too rushed.
    * On to the Credence character. He could've told graves he was magical and gotten everything he wanted. What was he even searching for under that girls bed. What was the point of putting that wand there? How do muggles even get "toy wands"? And in his anger, why did he not lash out at Graves? Why run away?
    * Also, in the final scene. Gellert fucking Grindelwald gets captured by a fucking pokemon, are you serious? Here he is, holding 30 aurors at bay (who, for the record did not think once to flank) and Newt pulls out his trusty yoyo and captures him. Fuck me.
    * I won't even get started on the weird goblin CGI and that goblin lady in the speakeasy.
    ughh

    Some good parts but those have already been elaborated on so I'll leave it here.
     
  5. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign ~ Prestige ~

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    Film is not without problems. I didn't much care for Queenie and her literal mind-reading, though I'm not opposed to the idea of wizards having affinities for certain magical disciplines. Maybe I'm reading too much into Queenie. Voldemort could detect lies, Queenie can read minds, Newt seems to have a particular affinity for magical creatures. Not game-breaking.

    I did have quite a few issues with things that were alien to my impression of the wizarding world, but then I considered time and location and I can see some of those differences as a result of a different magical society. A goblin gangster, hostility to magical creatures, strict adherence to the Statute of Secrecy - that's wizarding America. I like this not-in-my-face implied worldbuilding.

    Complaints about Queenie's lack of no-maj contact don't seem as severe to me when I consider Grimmauld Place 12. I can absolutely see wizards hiding among muggles without interacting with them. Therefore I also find it plausible that Grindelwald would try to introduce a wizard-muggle conflict in that kind of environment and in one of the greatest muggle cities in the world. He clearly wanted to specifically use the Obscurus and considering what havoc Credence could wreak, I'm not surprised Grindelwald wanted to use it, instead of, say, releasing some magical beasts. It doesn't seem like he would think like that.

    As for the death sentence - Graves made the call. Nothing indicated that Piquery knew or agreed with it. Graves said "kill these guys because Obscurus" and next we see the attempted execution. It was Grindelwald trying to quickly take advantage of the situation.

    I quite liked the characters, even Jacob whom I expected to dislike because it seemed to me like they were putting a muggle among wizards for forced drama. And there were elements of it, but the character was well done enough that I can let some things slide. I thought that Graves (meaning Colin Farrell) was underused. Most of his scenes were just him walking around looking cool. Overall though, great cast, well done.

    Grindelwald's defeat seemed less like Newt defeating him in a contrived manner and more Grindelwald being busy soloing 30 Aurors and momentarily forgetting about the one dude behind him. I saw it as an emotional moment for Grindelwald, when he couldn't help himself and went "fuck y'all" and started a fight instead of just leaving. The moment he was revealed, he was back to calm and collected. Although I'm iffy on Johnny Depp. Will see how he does in the sequel.

    Oh yeah, fucking shoehorned in romance, bloody fuck.

    Not a perfect film by any stretch, but I enjoyed it. 7,5/10
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2016
  6. Agent Zero

    Agent Zero Groundskeeper DLP Supporter

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    I could have sworn there was a Spoiler thread for this. Oh well.

    It's ridiculous that it's taken me this long to watch it. But I saw it in 3D 4DX and I've got to say it was pretty amazing in there. Not the best film in 4DX (That would be Doctor Strange) but still pretty good.

    If anyone is in Milton Keynes on a weekday bar Friday and want to see it in 4DX, I might be able to hook you up.

    As for the actual movie itself, it did have its problems but it was still a welcome return to the Wizarding World.
    First, Grindelwald. Is there any reason why Colin Farrell couldn't continue playing him? Just have Grindelwald's face be unknown to the public. I hope Depp does hik justice but I'll be preparing for the worst. Also, all that character development that went into Farrell's character? Gone. No one is going to associate the formidable character that was Graves with Depp.

    Most of the time in reboots/sequels, I complain about pandering to the fans. Here, I'm gonna do the opposite. I don't think there were enough references to the original series, which is understandable since FBAWTFT happens in the past but a cameo by Gambon as Dumbledore (Or someone else playing a young Dumbledore) would have been great. Heck, maybe even a scene of Newt getting expelled from Hogwarts.

    Also, the Obscuro. I would have preferred that they use something from existing canon. When I saw it in Newt's trunk, I thought we were about to see the origin of the Dementors which would have been pretty cool.

    I love how this movie breaks most fanon concepts.

    America being more tolerant of Muggles? Nope, they're actually worse. No friends or spouses allowed.

    All House Elves speak like Dobby? Forget it, they're just as much of a dick as anyone else.

    Racism/Sexism being a thing in the wozarding world? Nope, they got their first black female president more than half a century before the muggles got theirs.

    I loved Newt, Queenie and Jacob. I would have liked it if he contributed a bit more but as a character he was pretty good. Tina looked like she was always on the verge of crying even when nothing was wrong.

    Newt's interactions with his creatures was amazing. The man could teach Hagrid a thing or two. Queenie's Legilimency was a bit unnecessary as it didn't contribute to the plot but she made up for that with her personality.
    The best thing about this movie is that it can stand on its own. Even if there were no other Harry Potter books or movies, it would still be just as good.

    Overall, I'd give the movie a 9/10.
     
  7. oakes

    oakes Unspeakable DLP Supporter

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    I got strong Kristen Stewart vibes from Newt to be perfectly honest.

    Also was it just me or almost all of the dialogues in the movie were all stillted?

    In the end despite me wanting to like the movie so much, this has been one of the rare movies I've disliked so much in a while. Aside from the cute looking animals there was literally nothing...
     
  8. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign ~ Prestige ~

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    One thing that I know is going to be a future brother to my Parseltongue/Parselmouth peeve is how people are already mispronouncing Obscurus as Obscuro.
     
  9. Rhaegar I

    Rhaegar I Death Eater

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    Just got back from seeing it. I admittedly Spoiled myself via this website, so I knew most of what was going to happen, including the Twist. But here were my thoughts:

    1. For a society so obsessed with not exposing itself to the Muggle/No-Maj World, why the hell would they have a large population and their government right in the middle of one of the largest Muggle/No-Maj cities on the planet? Newt wanted to take that Bird-Ex-Machina to Arizona, why couldn't they move there or something? America has a ton of land the wizards could easily hide in away from everyone else.

    2. Also, if the New Salem people are such a threat, why weren't they obliviated? You would think they would work hard on not having an entire group of people who know about and regularly talk about Magic, never mind one that considers Magic horrible.

    3. Personally, I wasn't a big fan of the President being a black person. Nothing against the character herself, it just goes against a Head-Canon I have where American Wizards are about as racist towards non-whites as British Wizards are towards lower-class people.

    4. Newt, Queenie, and Graves were all awesome. Newt did a great job with his care for magical creatures. Queenie was amazing, and I didn't even mind the Legilimens since I'm guessing it's an innate ability similar to Tonks. And before the Twist, Graves had all the makings of a great long-term antagonist.

    5. Speaking of which, like I said before I already knew about the Twist. And like a lot of you, I wasn't especially impressed with Depp's Grindelwald. I would have loved it if Graves were Grindelwald's Chief Underling or something, and instead he went all Boba Fett/Darth Maul/Captain Phasma on us. With that said, Depp was only there for a few seconds, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he'll do a better job in the next one. And besides, they've been establishing him as being extremely powerful for the entire movie, from Wandless Magic to taking on dozens of aurors at once. So I'm hopeful he'll at least be a formidable antagonist.

    6. The rest of the characters were ok to good. Jacob did his job as being a reason for Exposition and comic relief fairly well.

    7. The Creatures were all great. All CGI, of course, and I think some practical effects would have made it better, but they all looked pretty cool. That niffler is my favorite.

    8. The Obscurus was pretty good, even if for some reason I feel like I've been seeing too many Giant Cloud Villains. They might have pushed for the sister to being the Obscurus a bit too much before revealing it was the brother, but I think he did a nice job as a beaten and abused kid with a lot of pent-up anger issues.

    8.5. See, Fanon. That's what abuse by an adoptive parent that hates Magic looks like. And that's how a Wizard would develop and eventually react to such an environment. Can they please either stop writing horrible Abused!Harry fics or at least write them to be more like this?

    9. Why does Hollywood always have to include Unneccsary Romance Subplots? Can't they just try not including one? Maybe have a male character and female character be just friends without any romance being involved.

    All in all, I thought it was good movie. I had a few problems with it, but it left me looking forward to the next few movies.

    I forgot, are the next four movies going to be all about Newt, or are they going to switch around main characters?
     
  10. coolname95

    coolname95 First Year

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    Agree with some points, but:

    For the cockroach: how do we know that the occamy can't distinguish between a real and transfigured one? We know that food can't be conjured, and apparently it eats insects.

    Grindelwald didn't get captured by the pokemon, he was captured by a spell Newt hit him with. The pokemon was a distraction, as explained in the script, and as you'll also notice if you watch it again.

    What do you mean "nothing like a trial in America of all places"? Isn't wizarding America implied to be more backwards than, for example, Britain, in terms of the laws? Also, even the muggle USA literally runs torture camps where people can be sent without trial.
     
  11. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign ~ Prestige ~

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    I forgot to mention one thing - there a few really good jokes. Kind of understated, they don't steal the show, but when I remembered them, I recalled cracking up in the theater. One would be when the niffler pretends to be a mannequin as Newt looks on, with the jewelry sliding from his arm, the way those few shots were arranged, coupled with the niffler's design just works very well. Same thing was repeated with the occamy staring at the cockroach and the contrast of a giant snake-thing to the little bugger of a niffler made it funny too.

    There was also "no, leave his brain alone" with the swooping evil, cracked up there too.

    Best joke goes to the giggle water. I just found it hilarious when Jacob went "I'm the only man like that" and that laugh - goddamn, but that was funny.
     
  12. Thaumologist

    Thaumologist Supreme Mugwump

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    “Are you a seeker, a seeker of truth?”
    “More of a chaser.”
     
  13. Matheusppauli

    Matheusppauli Squib

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    I found the new movie to be so disappointing... Like most of the movie was just so boring :( I thought that the movie would at least include some more explanation in terms of Newt's expulsion from Hogwarts...

    The plot could have gone so many other place as well.

    The only think that in my opinion that was great is the society of the era, I mean it covered the themes of discrimination and secrecy pretty well didn't it?
     
  14. sayeftyfirst

    sayeftyfirst Squib

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    The only thing I really didn't like about it was the reveal at the end. It seemed like bad fanfiction... That could have been used to up the stakes before the battle, or he couldve remained a minion to make Grindlewald even scarier by comparison. And instead we got a lackluster reveal at the end of the movie that the big baddie was caught...
     
  15. HJPfan

    HJPfan Squib

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    I enjoyed the exposure to more of the HP universe and thought Newt's use of magical creatures was ingenious. This was a different side of magic than what we saw in the core books, which makes sense given the differences in ages, era, and location.

    The major sticking point I had, and it is a large one, is that there could have been more of an overarching plot. I felt like the characters were going through a series of events or disruptions without a major drive.

    Overall I enjoyed and will still see the other movies but I expected more. I am hopeful the future movies will build off of the Grindlewald reveal
     
  16. Pirazy

    Pirazy Groundskeeper

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    Found it an enjoyable watch aside from a few exceptions that have already been mentioned.
    Obscurus thingamajig that was largely unnecessary for the overall plot and could have easily been replaced with some kind of beast instead of this fucking bullshit that turns magical children into walking black-cloud-nukes when they get abused. Why the fuck does Little Whinging still exist?

    Farrel kicked ass, but I would have preferred if he was just a lieutenant tasked with gathering support in America as opposed to Grindelwald micro-managing his global revolution, does he do this in every magical community? Is he waging a world-war on his own? They should have kept the cameo to the intro where we see him flashfrying a squad of aurors and expanded that scene instead, maybe have him hand out orders to various lieutenants, one being Graves, and start setting the groundwork for his global movement. that'd given them room to have him show up at the end and free Graves. Not to mention the way he wages his war, it was just Voldemort all over again just not as sneaky, they should have gone the Palpatine route and have him subtly start to influence and manipulate the ICW while acting openly, that would have been baller as fuck. Also, what was with that character design? Did he have Sith Dark side eyes? Looked like one of his eyes was all red and yellow..

    Loved the creatures.

    Queenie's legilimency was retardely OP and bordered on omniscient clairvoyancy at times.

    "We have to hide from the muggles and can have no contact with them, lets put our government inside a muggle building in the worlds most heavily populated city and use the enchanted main entrance for access, we are fucking retarded."

    Edit: wtf costume department? Muggle period fashion everywhere. And that singer was weird as fuck.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2016
  17. Nauro

    Nauro Headmaster

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    I've just seen it.

    Out of the five people group that watched this film with me, only one other liked it. Everyone complained about the slow and boring pace of the film, and the general nonsense.

    On the other hand, while I agree that a lot of things seemed to just happen, without much driving force behind them, I still had enough fun to like the movie.

    I felt like I had just seen a long Doctor Who episode, just set in the Harry Potter universe. Just, instead of a magical screwdriver, we had a magical wand. A bit more straightforward.

    4/5 from me.

    The creatures were fun, but I feel like they should have had more of them, or, quite inverse - less. The problem was that they were in no means impacful, excepting the select few that were used to escape bonds or as distractions. They should have either have been a centerpiece for the plot, ignoring the Obscurus storyline, and instead having a dangerous beast for a change.

    I was gonna rant about how Gellert changed his view on the Obscurial boy the second he turned out to be not a squib but an Obscurial, but then I actually realised that that was the point of his character and not against it. He only cared about magical people, meaning that muggles and squibs are beneath him, and when he got proof that it was otherwise, he instantly switched gears - especially with that speech at the end.

    The minor magics where what I liked, including everything from repairs (not very minor, but not still), setting of the tables, ministry (whatever that name for USA counterpart was) rats and typewriters, pub drawings and the like.

    Otherwise, Newt in particular is guilty of forgetting his magic, and relying on muggle-way to get things done, for example only using the spells to catch niffler at a later point of their struggled, when he should have been easily apprehended with a spell or two. He also lost his wand to the monkey*. Come on!

    And finally, this movie seems to hint that a war between muggles and magicals is a thing that the public fears, as well as dropping a few hints of "when magicals were prosecuted by the muggles". I have more on this topic, but I think we had a specific thread for that discussion, and I'll see if I still want to elaborate when I find it. Needless to say, this has me questioning what Rowling believes on the subject of 'magical vs muggle.

    So yeah. Not too structured, but the memories are fresh, and at least I have a few things to think about.


    Wait, I have more.

    To answer one thing that seemed to crop up in the thread:
    I don't believe Newt became master of the Elder Wand. First, the wand Gellert had was different from what we saw in 7th book movies. I'm hoping this means he didn't have a chance to get one yet.

    Second, and this is only because I don't want this, and not a real point:
    If Newt is the master, the showdown between Dumbledore and Gellert could happen pararel with Harry's and Voldemort's final showdown, where Dumbledore would go "but I beat newt, so that means the wand isn't yours but mine"... And I wouldn't like that. So I'm hoping Rowling isn't planning to copy herself.



    *Imagine if Newt is the master of the Elder Wand. Do you think it will be long until another monkey disarms him by accident, and then good luck appeasing the ficklest wand in the world.

    p.s. The worst thing were the subtitles in my native language. All the names and terms were 'translated', and as I kept glancing at them, it was hard to really catch the terms in English, with the translated version was deliberately misleading. I'm still not sure what was the name of Obscurial-boy. (I looked it up, and Credence is not what I'd write down after the film. Probably "Grievance", because that's close to the translated name that was in the subtitles, and sounded similarish to what was being echoed on the sceen.)

    p.p.s. What was the last line that
    Gellert
    said to Newt? I din't catch it, and the subtitles only got in the way.
    We all die a little? .... We will die later? ... You will die for this?
    Can't make heads nor tails of it. What does it mean?
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2016
  18. ThePinkTomato

    ThePinkTomato Prestigious Tomato ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Gellert stole the Elder Wand from Gregorovitch when he was a young man, so he should have it already unless it's being retconned.
     
  19. oakes

    oakes Unspeakable DLP Supporter

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    Probably JKR forgot what she wrote again and it's getting retconned after she says "but I never said it happened like that".

    Only remembered that female house elf/ goblin thing after reading Nauro's post, what the hell was that thing?
     
  20. CleanRag

    CleanRag Professor

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    Saw it last night, and while it really struggled to get the plot moving... at all, I was pleased with the movie when I left the theater. Which is better than all of the movies before now, so I think this is my favorite. I could just be biased though, maybe in six months I will have changed my mind.

    The only thing that really upset me was the ending. Grindelwald is a captured leader of an army (terrorist organization?) who is actively plotting an escape that the President acknowledges as viable. It took them less than 24 hours to have Newt and Tina convicted and executed after they were arrested. Why then didn't they just perform a summary execution on Grindelwald? In that situation it is beyond justified and becomes more of an obligation. They were risking way to much to not just kill him in that tunnel.

    The romance plotlines, the laws against magical creatures, and the whole threat of war with the no-mags all bugged me, but were mostly minor annoyances than anything that spoiled the movie for me.
     
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