Yeah, my optimistic attitude from last season has really been difficult to keep up here.

I don't necessarily agree with GRRM in that 'books are books and tv is tv' being a completely cooked mentality - practically speaking, there's a certain amount of compression of plotlines and characters that's just flatly necessary to compress a fantasy story of even moderate complexity into something consumable for television. Even the best screenwriter needs to do some folding to be able to make something coherent fit 45-60 minutes. Following that, there's even some of what would be called 'dumbing down' needed that is just unrealistic to kvetch about - much as I would want Wheel of Time adapted faithfully, it's a reasonable arguable to say that you can't transfer it as written (IE, exceptionally sexually conservative except for the male protagonist, who has three love interests). That's simply neither sellable on an HBO-peer channel nor something that any directors or writers would want to defend in the current climate.

That being said, there's plenty of room for criticism for how they do that compression and how they use that time instead.

I'm completely baffled by them choosing to try to continue and try to sell the 'trying for peace' timeline. In my mind, one episode at the start of the new season would have been sufficient to both lightly recap the old and put a neat cap on the 'we tried peace' storyline and move right on to the 'we are tragically locked into war' storyline. People want to see the freaking war, it's not like the lead up was anything more than foreplay for it, and we ended the last season (in my mind) perfectly narratively ready to plunge straight into it.

Instead, they're basically doing the 'peace' storyline over again? And all for uncertain gain - this running shit between Alicent and Rhaenyra isn't written like the proper tragedy the Dance is. The beast is done slouching into Bethlehem and is well ready to be born - instead, we have the spiritual animosity and some sort of childish notion of 'fault' for the Dance being awkwardly slapped between a handful of characters like a characterization hot potato; Aemond, Rhaenyra, Daemon, Alicent, Aegon all acting like they need to get on a podium at the end of each episode and explain to the democratic constituency that they're a good person who temporarily lost their temper, when justifying themselves for their actions is not consistent with any of their characters.

Rhaenys and her bursting through the floor at the end of last season, idiot ball strapped to her chest, was a stupid flourish, but it was at least a short and understandable one - have a memorable scene at the end of the season, sort of vaguely parallel the beginning where she almost became queen by having her instead reject the throne that rejected her (or, you know, something). It was fucking stupid, but I can close my eyes and pretend 40 seconds of television was some sort of characterization thrust that ended as a wet fart.

It's practically impossible to look at the peace stuff that's been the central plot of now half of the second season and airtime as either filler or a retelling of something that's already been shown. It's an unjustifiable waste.

 

Olivia Cooke is definitely talented, but that doesn't make long scenes of her taking baths compelling television in my opinion. I'm not really sure they're succeeding if their goal is to depict women in a stronger light, because some of the changes they've made seem quite contrary to that goal - scenes like Alicent being completely blindsided during the Green council when the coup began, rather than an active participant scheming to advance the standing of her family. Or Rhaenyra's naivety in the face of open war, the scenes with her council this season have been pretty painful. Making Rhaenys an unrepentant mass murderer of smallfolk and never really mentioning it again definitely shows her in a certain light, I'm not sure you could call it a stronger one.

To answer your question though, in brief I'd say I expect them to respect the story. If you have to make changes (and yes, I do understand changes are necessitated by the process of adapting something) you should have a damn good reason to do so, and should be trying to minimize the impact of how these changes affect the larger story. I honestly don't think a one to one recreation of the source material (although almost impossible) would be boring, as I said in my previous post I'm so down to see some of these events lifted off the page and depicted on screen - it's cool to see your imagination come to life. Not to mention most of the wider audience being completely unfamiliar with the source material, or the fact that Fire and Blood isn't your typical story but more of a historical overview with a lot of room to be fleshed out while staying coherent with the greater plot.

On the note of having to compress the story for time to fit the medium of television, this is definitely one of the better arguments for adaptation changes. House of the Dragon is however in the enviable position of having HBO ready to throw massive amounts of resources behind it, as was previously rumored they offered to the producers of Game of Thrones when they wanted to rush towards an ending. They do have the luxury to be able to take their time with things, and it's not even as if the Dance is such a long story they'll be running into similar issues with actors wanting to move on with their lives as they ran into last time.

 

I really disagree with a lot of what you said.

There are aspects of the show I also don't like and changes I didn't think were necessary.

But an adaption is always better than a 1 to 1 copy of the book. For me as someone who has read the source material, the joy in watching the adaptation isn't to see my imagination come to life/ see the book dialogue and plot regurgitated. My imagination is 100x better than any tv show or movie and the best way to consume the book will always be to read it. I watch adaptations to see their take on it - how they honor the source material while also tastefully altering and shaping it for a visual medium. If I go in expecting a 1 to 1 remake I will always be disappointed - my imagination is always better than any adaptation possibly could be and the way I first view characters when I read them in a book will always be their definitive version for me.

I'm especially surprised that these kinds of complaints exist for an adaptation of fire and blood. The book tries its dang hardest not to take a stance on what exactly is happening - multiple accounts of the same event that are wildly different are described many, many times. Even beyond that, there are many details that are barely present or even absent regarding what exactly drives these characters/what exactly happened in many places because the book is a history, not a POV novel. So I don't consider the show's depiction of Lucerys's death an egregious deviation from the books - how tf would mushroom or any of the other historians in the book know it was an accident? Why would Aemond reveal this and be undermined? The same goes for Aemond attacking Aegon - something I think is an exciting change. For Fire and Blood specifically, I think people demanding a close adaptation of the books are really being unfair.

The whole point of adopting it is to take a definite stance on what happened and show the gaps between the stories histories tell and what actually happened - I personally think this is a major theme. Rhaenyra of the books is sometimes described as a power-hungry bitch who caused a war by some whereas the show presents her as someone who never lived up to her father's vision for her but starts trying after his demise. (Although I dislike this one) Daemon the bamf rogue prince who is the secret powerhouse behind Rhaenyra's victories in reality is an insecure, vain man who doesn't know how to make the best of his privilege. These differences in portrayal show the impact that things like sexism, sensationalism, and turning a blind eye to inconvenient truths have on the histories - and spotting them makes watching the show all the more rewarding for someone who has read a historian's description of these characters.

As for stuff like what does Alicent do from here, sure maybe she doesn't kill anyone here on out/do anything historically significant but just those events do not make up a show. She can be our POV of the greens in Kings Landing, including the lead-up to the Dragonpit riot. I thought her struggle with the intention of Viserys's words and her resolution was pretty good. She can be our POV into Aegon and stuff too. Characters like her can be our view into what actually drives these people in between all the dragon fights and castle raids.

There are still adaptative choices that are a step in the wrong direction - I equally disliked the rumors about Nettles. But I don't think this is a persistent issue, not yet anyway.

 

Is this George outright saying that needing Valyrian blood to tame dragons is bullshit?

Basically you just need a big pair of balls or ovaries, ready food, and time?

What about eggs and their hatching?

 

On a separate tack, I'm personally quite bored of Daemon loping about the castle bewitched. It feels belabored and stretched out. I similarly despair of the 'give peace a chance' storyline which has lasted far too long. Say what you will for last season, but things were moving. Very little has happened in half a season.

 

I will agree, the Harrenhall stuff is getting pretty boring and probably should not have lasted more than 1 episode.

 

Agreed on Daemon's storyline. I enjoyed the goofiness up until now but in this latest episode I've had enough of it. As things stand, Aemond is a better Daemon than Daemon.

The plot needs to move. Or rather, the Blacks' plot needs to move. Things are happening on the Greens' side. My speculation about Aemond taking power in KL was half-correct (and I'm sure he's silently hoping for Aegon to hurry up and die). I enjoyed seeing how scared everyone is of him (because of his dragon). Meanwhile the Blacks look cool in their outfits (Rhaenyra's and Jace's costume game is on point) but they're doing little. However, I am encouraged that Jace has remembered the extra dragons they have on their dragon island.

Daemon dream-fucking his mother was not on my bingo card. +1 for finding yet another way to spin the ick of Targaryen incest, though I'm not entirely sure it needed to be in the show.

 

My main problem with this show is that all of the build up of the first season doesn't lead to second season, which, I swear, is getting slower by the episode.

I can understand the decision to make most of the action offscreen to leave room for dragon violence and a penis or two, but there are other ways to make plot advance that aren't Daemon insisting on be called His Grace for three episodes.

I'm getting a feeling they knew how they wanted the second part of the season (or at least last few episodes) to work out, and just failed to work up to that point with material they've had. They could've even focus on characters that didn't have as much of screen time as the ones they are overbuilding at this point.

 

I haven't watched yesterdays episode yet, but from what you're saying it sounds like the writers don't have enough material to spread across the four or so seasons they have planned. I was initially worried when they dropped the episode count this season from 10 to 8 that they wouldn't be able to cover everything, but if they have time for filler, it's probably because they needed to reallocate events planned for season 2 to season 3 or something like that. I feel like they're neglecting characters at the expense of giving us more empty screen time with Daemon, but hey, maybe that's down to a contractual screen time thing.

 

Doesn't help when they cut out thing that characters actually do in the books too.

Like Jace's trip to the Vale and the North could have easily yielded an episode's worth of material.

 

Daemon’s mother was a snack but not even a single glimpse of a titty. HBO has truly lost its nerve.

 

I liked the Daemon scenes in episode 5. Honestly, I didn't think it was too gratuitous. His dodgey tactics are backfiring hard, and he's coming to realise that he might not be really cut out for this whole ruling thing.

I think the biggest difference between Daemon and Aemond is plausible deniability. Daemon has loads of people murdered and tortured all throughout the show, but he tries to evade responsibility for it, and is coping hard to justify it all in his head. Now that his chickens are coming home to roost, he's breaking. Aemond on the other hand murders or tries to murder members of his own family more or less openly, and is completely unaffected by it.

The scenes around Aemond were great too, with everyone being terrified of him, but needing him. A stand out scene for me was his confirmation as Aegon's regent, and then Criston Cole's ptsd on display in the courtyard and Aemond staring at the Iron Throne. He comes across as a complete psychopath in a way that he didn't earlier in the show. Luke may have been an accident, but Aemond has rewritten that whole debacle in his head and is owning it. I love his actors delivery of the orders to the small council at the end of that scene too. Viserys joked, Aegon blustered and Rhaenyra argues, but Aemond commands, and people listen - probably because they know his dragon is bigger than theirs.

 

Are they trying to make a 8 season show? Wtf was that episode

 

I've been busy so it's taken me a while to respond to this (and honestly kind of losing interest in the show the more I see where they're going) but I thought I'd touch on this part because it seems to be the crux of the issue. I feel like I should say I'm not completely opposed to adaptations making changes, I get what you're saying - I just have zero faith in HBO or more specifically Ryan Condal at this point to make these changes "tasteful" or that they'll "honor the source material." If you feel otherwise that's fine, we'll just have to agree to disagree - but it's clear from your last sentence you agree with what I'm saying on some level about some of the changes being made.

It looks like from the latest episode these leaks are at least somewhat substantiated, and there's some pretty wtf stuff in there. If you think these are tasteful changes (and yes, they are changes - Fire and Blood is a historical overview but some of these things are bizarre to believe could be hidden from the historical record) then I have to admit to some confusion. At the least, it would seem the author of the story doesn't particularly feel his story is being honoured and that's the opinion I'm most interested in on this.

 

I enjoyed this episode. It had the air of setup for larger events in the final episodes of the season. The one part of this season so far that's been a drag is Daemon's visions. I don't think there's enough substance there to justify stretching it out as long as it has been and I was patiently waiting for this subplot to come to some sort of conclusion this episode, but alas.

I liked the scene where the Kingsguard tried to claim Seasmoke. It seemed that there was a moment where Seasmoke was down with it, but Ser Steffon (I think that was his name?) took too long and Seasmoke was like "mate, shit or get off the pot, this is your one chance" and Steffon came up short and got KFC'd. Seasmoke then seeking out his next rider is a strong lean towards the characterization of dragons as clever creatures rather than just very dangerous if trainable animals.

Sending boats with food carrying Rhaenyra's banners was a shrewd move worthy of GOT S2 Tyrion. It has layers. Sure, the superficial result is: smallfolk like the royal who gives them food when they're starving, but there's also a more devilish side to it. Without an actual system for distributing those resources, things were bound to go sideways (mad rush for the boats, people violently stealing the food from each other, chaos in the streets) and that is still to the Blacks' advantage. And I enjoy a good KL riot scene.

Gwayne's actor steals every scene.

I didn't see the Rhaenyra/Mysaria shipping coming at all (lol), but I don't mind a bit of fanservice.

Aemond is fun to watch. He's the cock of the walk in the Green faction, but he's also very young, arrogant and inexperienced and the show doesn't shy away from this. Intimidating Aegon while wearing Blackfyre on his belt is a scene where Aemond has the clear advantage and uses it well, but dismissing his mother and sputtering in indignation at Tyland's letter exposes his flaws. I can't wait for Otto to return and reshuffle the whole board in KL and then Aemond's reaction when he realizes he's been thoroughly outwitted.

The ballista engineer with obvious Targ hair is being set up for something and I just hope it's not held back for season 3.

 

I just disliked this episode for how much it resembled that of a soap opera. Which I suppose GoT always was at some level too. But I feel like HoTD is losing something of its medieval drama roots from the books and going more in the soap opera route. Increased attention on these characters pacing about and wrestling with their insecurities and lesser attention on the impact of their actions. Instead of showing interesting politicking with Daemon in the Riverlands they have yet another pointless hallucination scene then serve him his victory on a silver platter. Some of the stuff with Rhaenyra and dealing with sexism was interesting but ultimately that becomes secondary to her own familial insecurities and affair by the end. Alicent could be interacting with nobles in KL and exploring how the rest of the realm feels but instead just stews in resentment at being a bad mother. The stuff with Aemond and the KL riots was fine ig.

I just wish this show would show instead of tell the political machinations of war more. Rn I feel like 90% of an episode is spent daydreaming about a character's insecurities and 10% on the events of the war. The KL ritos are good but contribute to the feeling the last couple seasons of GoT had were it feels like Westeros is made up of three locations (KL, Dragonstone and Harrenhal this season). With their budget, I just wish they would do more. I feel like the showrunners have the idea that a war is just a bunch of battles intersped with their impact. Makes me wonder if they've ever bothered to pick up a storm of swords.

And yeah with the new episode I find myself agreeing with aspects of your post. I hate where the Sheapstealer plot is going. In light of the scene where Sheapstelaer is terrorizing the small folk and someone says he's been doing this for years, that basically confirms to me that the GRRM post about dragons was in response to this plotline.

Finally, I will say that Rhaenyra and Mysaria kissing was probably a good choice. Not because I think it adds much to the plot or anything but the Mysaria actress did an interview where she said in the script it was a close embrace which alluded to romantic intentions or something but they changed it on set because the scripted encounter felt queer-baity. Keeping in mind some of the complaints re Rhaenyra-Alicent from s1 I thought that was definitely a good choice.

 

Feels like you could squeeze all six episodes into two and not trim anything meaningful. Rhaenyra continues to put me to sleep, for that matter - feels like the writers are terrified to do anything that could even remotely have her seen in a negative light and thus unleash twitter fury upon them, so they turned her into a void of a character.

S1 had its issues but was overall pretty good. S2 is just... meh.

 

Alright episode. Wtf was the point of the Alicent shit. But that last shot was really really really cool.

This episode is probably why this season only had 8 episodes lol. Imagine how expensive all that dragon footage must have been.

 

My god, which company is in charge of making the dragons?
They all look absolutely gorgeus

 

Spoilers for leaked scenes from the finale:

Spoiler

Lmao at this leaked scene from the finale - anyone still want to make the argument this show is trying to show women (specifically Alicent, even) in a stronger light? It feels at times more like a subversive endorsement of the patriarchy's message. It feels almost as if Rhaenyra and Allicent are sabotaging their respective sides at every opportunity they get. Book Allicent is a much more consistent and well written female character any day of the week. Give me "The city is yours, Princess. But you will not hold it long. The rats play when the cat is gone, but my son Aemond will return with fire and blood." over whatever the hell this is shit is please.

Also this scene with Aegon and Larys has some other confusing elements - Sunfyre is dead, wtf? Perhaps this is intended to be a misdirect (really it has to be since Joffrey refrences Rhaenyra's death this way in GoT) but it seems hard to understand how Aegon could be under the impression his dragon is dead without that actually being the case, and I really wouldn't put it past them at this point. Aegon is cockless (really missed this era of GoT's "humour") and thus Maelor is definitely cut? More large elements of the ending of the story stripped from it - how is the ending of this story going to look with no Nettles, no Morning, no Maelor's death to cause Daeron to burn Bitterbridge, potentially no Sunfyre to eat Rhaenyra?? Nothing like the ending of the Dance in Fire and Blood, that's for certain.