What the hell are you talking about? She did no more damage then any other student. She was the first one injured. She used the same spells as everyone else (Impedimenta, Stupefy, Petrificus Totalus). She showed no more skill then Harry/Luna/Neville/Ron. Wow, how useful was all that extra studying?

Wow. She did ONE NEWT level spell in fifth year. Harry did the fucking Patronus Charm (An auror level spell, I believe, or at least a complex NEWT charm) in his fucking third year. Granted, he needed quite a bit of time, and more help, but he was doing it in front of a dementor, and had two years less experience than Hermione did when she did her first fucking NEWT level spell.

"Honestly, don't you two read?"-Hermione, HPSS

"Well, it's just that I was sort of right about the Half Blood Prince business"-BITCH! Good for you, and I was sort of right about Malfoy being a death eater, and Snape being a death eater, and you being an idiot.

"-got a reputation for Potions brilliance you don't deserve," Hermione said nastily= HPHBP

"I told you there was something wrong with that prince person, and I was right, wasn't I"-Hermione, HPHBP

Face the facts, Hermione is a bitch who pushes her knowledge into everyones face. Yes, she has been a good friend in the fast, but she is arrogant, and yet she is no better a duelist than Harry is.

There is no evidence of that in canon whatsoever.

I was under the impression that the rituals Voldemort did were for immortality, according to canon. Not to mention the fact that Dumbledore admits continuously that Voldemorts has powers he will never have. My personal opinion is that Dumbledore is simply more knowledgable and Voldemort is either more powerful or equal. There is also no evidence that rituals automatically make someone into superman. I think you completely overestimate Dumbledore and underestimate Voldemort. Also, I think Dumbledore DOES use Dark Magic. Or, at least he did in the first war. "You do not seek to kill me?"-Voldemort in OotP sounding suprised. I would think Dumbledore would have tried to kill him during the first war before he heard the prophecy, not to mention the fact that he killed Grindelwauld. And if there are single "Light Magic" spells to kill people (Not fucking levitaion charms to drop people, real spells that simply kill) then it goes against everything dark magic seems to entail in canon.

 

No. Power doesn't translate to skill its power. That's it.

Are you fucking insane? Dolohov not casting an effective spell...you're shitting me. He nearly fucking cut her in half, and she had to spend a few weeks in the Hospital wing, AND still took potions in the summer. She was almost chopped.

And she didn't BEAT HIM. She was out cold after getting BLASTED BACK BY A SPELL DONE BY A MAN WHO HAD NO VOICE. Harry beat him; he fucking shot him with a stunner. Nailed his ass.

Oh another thing, IT WAS HER FAULT SHE WAS NAILED. She told Harry not to stun him because his head was that of a baby. Remember, a timeturner fell on his head.

So, here's what happened.

• Dolohov is turned into a man with a baby’s head.
• Dolohov shakes off the effects and follows them.
• He comes and fucking blast Hermione back wordlessly, almost chopping the bitch in half.
• Harry nails his ass with a stunner.
• Hermione has a weak pulse, Neville says.

About her doing more damage.

• Luna gets hurt in the battle, but otherwise is one of the best. She did better than Herman, and Herman says she’s spacey and useless. Arrogant right there.
• Ginny breaks her ankle.
• Ron summons a fucking brain. He also seems disoriented.
• Neville breaks his nose, but otherwise is the last in with Harry.
• Hermione is almost dead with a big ass scar. Herman against Dolohov= Hermione getting Pwned.
• Harry is still good. Neville takes a crucio, but still works.

So Ginny gets hurt first. (Ankle) Then Ron, he is kind of drunk, summons brain. Hermione got ass stomped. Luna is fine. Neville has broken nose, crucio, still walks and helps Harry. Harry is fine.

So have no idea what the fuck you're talking about, but I can say this, Hermione=Arrogant fucktard.

 

hum...

Right. Let's redo that. Why was the man using wordless spell already? Because hermione managed to silence him. She also got one other DE with a body bind iirc. She is the only one beside harry to have touched the DE, and she did it more than once (better than all the rest).


Yes, Dolohov is weak at non verbal casting: Pomfrey siad the spell wasn't perfect, fortunately for hermione.

As for skill=power, that's just my opinion, a theory, beased on the fact that pettigrew can do things like animagus and aks, that barty crouch junion can use at least one of the unforgivable a lot of times in a row, and that DE in hbp cast the ak left and right. For what i see in the books, once you have mastered a spell, you can do it-a lot.

 

Are trying to say that if power = power, not skill then Peter wouldn't be able to do it? That's sort of a contradiction in a lot of ways. First, you either say Peter is a less powerful wizard, and there is such a thing, thus undermining your point in the first place or you say using those spells requires more skill, then Peter is a skilled wizard. But nothing about the fact that Peter can become an animal and cast unforgivables suggests that there isn't a power scale among wizards. Second, it is a fanfiction cliche that Peter was a weakling. Sure his animagus may suggest him being weaker than the other two(James and Sirius), but again, that's another Fanfic cliche.

Your animal chooses you based on personality from what I understand. A smaller animal does not mean less powerful. There isn't evidence in the book, apart from a random comment about Peter being a tag along made by McGonagall that suggests Peter was a weakling. In fact, merely the fact that they chose him to be a secret keeper (even if it was a bad choice) suggests that he was fairly close to them.

Again, you are not taking into account that Unforgivables may not require a lot of power. Rather, they require a lot of hate. Once you have hate down pat it might be pretty easy to throw those spells left and right.

The mere fact that once someone casts a patronus and yet have different results is a big nod towards such a thing as power levels in wizards. Even among those who can cast them (thus they have a successful spell) only a powerful wizard can drive off a larger number of dementors (Snape's words in PoA)

Or maybe his casting was weaker because he was expecting to be able to say the spell and had to throw in the non-verbal casting last minute. And for a not perfect spell it sure did a job on Hermione. We have no canon proof that all spells should be equally easy to do non-verbal. In fact, in my humble, hate HBP opinion, JKR didn't even think about nonverbal casting until HBP came along as everyone up until then tends to say spells more often than not with exception of the more powerful wizards (such as Dumbledore) If it was a common thing as six year students learned and succeeded at, I think we would have seen it far more often than we have in the books.

And by the way, if you have a shot at a DE (which Hermione obviously did since she cast silencio) you don't throw a fucking silencing spell at them. You knock them out with a Stunner. No chance at a non-verbal spell from them. There out cold, like they should be.

 

Man IP I just can't picture you with the new avatar. You don't seem as hardcore as you used to when you had the Jack Nicholson looking avatar.

Why must Harry name his pets after their color? If he gets a white tiger he names it something like "Blizzard" in japanese, green snake will be Emerald, and a Red fruit fruit bat will be Bloodruby. Why does his creativity end with Hedwig?

 

Yep, another rant then... Dueling.

Before hbp, where DE use ak mostly, what we have seen of dueling is mostly pathetic. It's just a question of who says/think his spell faster. For exmple, a unskilled wizard but who is in a good shape will always win against a more experienced one but a bit older: he says his first spell faster.

Duelling, in fanfiction, is like "oooooh he says stupify really quickly, and protego too!!" Yeah right. It wouldn't be that hard to do better. But i have *never* seen a duel that was well done, without extremely big flaws...


About what i meant with the pettigrew explenation was htat using ak is supposed to take power (barty crouch says so) and the same with being an animagus. So that would mean that pettigrew was a really powerful wizard But why do the book say that he is weak, that he flocked to stronger wizards, and so on. So my point was that any wizards can learn to do any spell, with enough training.

And the patronus... the difference between the mist and the corporal form is just htat the spell isn't masterised yet. A masterised spell is, in my opinion, when one doesn't need the wand movement or to say the words anymore. But that's just my opinion. there is a fic out there by fission something, hsards of memory i think, where the author has a nice point of view about spells.

 

To be fair it's not really Harry's creativity that's lacking, it's the fucking authors.
What pisses me of though is why the fuck so many fic's have him getting fucking big cats for pets.
If they actually did some research they would know we don't have tigers roaming Britain.

I'm sick of fic's with bloody big cats, yes tigers are cool but please be realistic.

Also the chances of Diagon Alley importing endangered species is a bit nonsensical.
The snakes are possible but flying snakes, they must be on fucking mushrooms.

Aren't there enough magical animals in canon that they really have to use the bluffers guide to mythology too.

Also Herman's a bitch and deserves to die.

Litha

P.s why can't they give him a sheep, they are deadly and cunning.
Never underestimate the power of wool deception, and those eyes can ream the worst of us.

 

I don't think there is a amount of power. Honestly you do see people cast spells without tiring in canon. I've heard Harry fainting when making a patronus to fight off 100 dementors used, but it could've been the effect of the dementors themselves that made him faint. I agree with the person that said Barty Crouch or most likely Rowling probably meant skill. It wouldn't be the only time she's made a plot hole.

 

(You ever wonder if people don't read your posts all the way through?)

Lupin can cast a Patronus, but only strong enough to throw off one, or a few, dementors.

Harry can cast a Patronus strong enough to throw off dozens of dementors.

In fact, our know-it-all Hermione tells Harry that Snape said "only a powerful wizard" could have created a Patronus able to battle off that many dementors- not a wizard that could simply create a Patronus, but a Patronus POWERFUL enough to drive off that many dementors. That suggests there is a LEVEL of power to the spell, not simply a Spell works, spell doesn't work.

In fact, the same thing happens in the next book regarding the Accio charm. They comment, not that he can Accio something (thus successfully perform the spell) but rather that he was able to do it from such a distance - suggesting that a "more powerful" Accio would work for longer distances.

(This part not argumentative, just curious cause I can't remember) Is there ever an instance where you no longer have to use wand movements in Canon?

As for Peter/Barty power stuff: Barty says he didn't think that any of them would be able to successfully ak him, but that scene could easily be interpreted into him saying none of them had enough hate as Bellatrix has so nicely told us that the power behind the unforgivables is hate, not 'raw power' or whatever you want to call it. I guess in your case you don't think such a thing exists, but then using words like stronger makes no sense.

My point being, what accounts for spells being more powerful between two wizards who both successfully cast it if not some form of raw power?

Before HBP, we didn't see a whole lot of DE action, so thats sort of hard to say.

Not all fanfiction is like this, but if you don't believe in raw power, then how do you expect duels to go? Either someone is quicker on there feet and with their mouths or there is something more to disguishing who would win a duel.

 

Sorry for the masterised, english is my second language so....

About "pets", i am always waiting for ahrry to create a golem of a bird that fly around him and deflect any curses thrown his way. I mean, they *can* do it. Why shouldn't they?

ah... About hermione's mark not being stellar: she doesn't not only read her lessons before classes, but lesson that she will have in two or three years. That's smart. Also, we have lucius complaining that his son got beat for the first place of the year...by hermione. And as i have said before, she doesn't just studies. She corrects ron and harry's homework, help them master their spells, and help out hagrid with buckbeak.

EDIT:
Where did you get htat lupin can cast of only a few dementors? in a normal situation, yes. Harry too had trouble casting a patronus against two dementors in otp. But in poa, there were special circumstances. First, harry wasn't within the range of the spell. Second, he *knew* he could do it. That would help him cast the spell, as i believe that one needs to be confident in his spell csting or else it gets sloppy. but that's just a theory.

For DE not using AK before hbp, there is proof: in the dom, they did damage to the order, but none were killed beside sirius.

Bellatrix said that about crucio. Barty crouch use the word "power".

I didn't say that i don't believe in people having more or less skills, just power. the AD/V duels showed skills above power, what with the transfigurations, apparating, and so on.

 

I think the effect of the AK depends on what's being killed, as well as the person doing the killing.

For instance a wizard may easily kill a squirrel because it doesn't posses magic, but he would be unable to kill a house elf because they do.

Peter was successful in killing Cedric and Bertha because relatively speaking, they had less power than him. If he'd tried to kill Harry he would not succeed because he's weaker.

Barty would probably have died if Harry had cast the AK at him, because Harry is supposed to equal Voldemort.

If the AK was so efficient at killing people then more people would have come out his wand.

I think it's the wizard casting overcoming the power of the recipient.
If you read the Forgotten Realms and read about the Drow, they are naturally resistant to magic so have to overcome that resistance.


That's my theory anyway, and it sort of makes sense.

Because Harry and Voldemort are equal they couldn't use the AK on each other, because their power wouldn't be able to overcome the others.

With Crucio it's just plain hate that powers it, because hate gives the body a boost of adrenalin which in turn powers the spell.

Imperio is strength of mind.
So to use all of them you need a mix of these;
Power
Hate
Strength of will/mind.

Litha

 

(Sorry) There are actually flying snakes in cannon if you add those two extra books she wrote as canon, course they do live in the far east, not the UK.

But you gotta wonder were all those rules went about how many and what kind of animal you are allowed to have at Hogwarts.

 

That makes no sense. If AK was solely based on who was more powerful, then there would be more people surviving it, and people wouldn't have made as big a deal as they did about Harry surviving it. Not to mention the fact that Snape Ak'ed Dumbledore, and there is no way Snivellus is more powerful than him.

 

Please, pray that nobody goes and say that snape i more powerful than dumbledore. On the other hand, litha *could* say that dumbledore's magic took a huge wound by drinking that potion. But snape wouldn't have known, so...

 

Exactly. They come from the far east, not the east end.

I can't imagine so many rare and dangerous creatures appearing on Diagon, when Hagrid had to go to Knockturn just to get slug repellent.

I'm just expressing the desire for some realism when it comes to the pets, I mean atleast an Asp would look harmless to a layman.

I'm just tired of seeing so many exotic big cats on Diagon Alley, it's london not the nairobi dessert.

If your going to have a magical animal at least make it realistic.

Same as everytime he gets a snake he wears it as an accessory.
Around the waist, neck, wrist.

They are beautiful animals but they don't make good jewellery.
If you want to make Harry a fashion victim get him a plastic snake.



As for Herman I still say she's a bitch and must die. Her intestines should be spun into lute strings and her bones into a fucking xylophone. Then I can play the victory songs.

Litha

P.s just incase you're still not getting it, I hate Herman!

Edit: arkeus you just read my mind. He did drink a poison of sorts.

 

Wow, I hope it is because I have been awake as long as I have been, but I doubt it and that post did it for me. Arkeus, what exactly is it you believe in terms of power, because whatever I though it was, was completely undermined by that post?

Edit: Now Litha, don't you think you are being harsh. I mean, Hermione embodies the struggle all of us girls must go through when hormones hit.



Sorry...I really have been awake a long time and I can't control sarcasm after about 30 hours. So, just wondering, have you always hated her, or just the demon that is book 6 Hermione. You know, the one that degrades all women into pussies. Seriously. Every woman in book 6 is a pussy. Tonks, Ginny, Hermione, Lavender. . .

 

Sorry for being so callous, I should have considered that english wasn't your primary language. My bad.

You know what I liked, the swand idea. A sword with a magical core, the only problem is that it's never his own. It's always got "BLACK" written on the sword. Why the hell won't Harry take his ass down to the chamber of secrets and pull a basilisk tooth or something and take it to Ollivander and ask for a swand. Then maybe some sword action would be tollerable. I mean throwing hexes and curses at range and slicing heads off at close range. It'd work in a mass rumble.

 

I first just disliked her when I read the Philosophers stone, then when I read book 2 she was more irritating.

I hated her by book 3 but when I got to the goblet of fire I just wanted her to die. I think it was the 'can't you read' and 'honetly's that did it.
I used to know a girl like that at school and she was such a snob, not to mention she would constantly tell people how great her marks were.

I just hated her because I couldn't do homework because I had to work at 12.
I sympathised with Harry and she was just too much.

In yr 3 she could have phoned Harry but didn't, and went and tattled to a teacher about his broom. I felt for his disapointment because he's not had much of his own.

Now I just want to torture her for the last two books, and I think she is a hateful and spiteful little cow.
The basilisk should have ate her.
As for Ron I still think Harry should have fed him to Fluffy.

Litha

 

*sighs*

Umm...Snape SAID that only a powerful wizard could produce a patronus that powerful.

One fight does not good evidence make. Besides, in your first post you said that DEs used AKs often. In this one you said they don't. Regardless, one fight where they are trying to get there hands on a prophecy doesn't make good evidence for what spells DEs use normally or why they do or don't use them.

But what does power mean for an unforgivable? Raw power (which you seem to think does not exist); Skill (which would suggest that someone in the class may be able to use it successfully the first time because who said there isn't enough of a skilled wizard to get a spell right the first time...Hermione has done it in the past); or hate (which would back up Barty's claim)

Some spells may require a different thing to make them work, or make them work successfully. You still haven't accounted for why some spells (both working) work "better" for some than for others.

The AD/V shows nothing. We know nothing about the spells they used, how those spells work or whether some of the spells/shields would have been less successful if one of their raw power levels would be lower.

 

Ah i see. i do seem to contradict myself. i have several different theories about the "power" so....

i said that DE didn't use ak often before otp, but that changed in hbp. Weird.

Could you tell me where you saw someone doing a spell that had different consequencess than another person doing it...if the spell is sucessful?

it's like in transfiguration, there are steps. You can for exemple, making a matchstick pointy and silvery without it being a needle. it's not a question of power, but skill. i guess. there are no proof for either, but if it was a question of power, harry would be able to do some spells like accio quicker.

What i tried to say is that harry, or other people, can drive off an army of an hundred DE as long as the spell is completely sucessful. if it's not...

Snape said that about the patronus? Well, i wouldn't take his account as word by the author, considerign that someone like snape would prefer to believe he is weaker than voldemort because of genetics and not because voldemort studied another 20 years to get where he is now. but there again, i may not be right.

if you want to know, about my theories on magic in the books, i will , but apart from never having seen it before, they are rather complicated