1. Hi there, Guest

    Only registered users can really experience what DLP has to offer. Many forums are only accessible if you have an account. Why don't you register?
    Dismiss Notice
  2. DLP Writing Competition
    Topic - Master and Apprentice (or Mentor and Protege!)
    Click here for more info!
    Don't miss the due date Guest - it's March 13th so there's just one month left, lez go!
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Introducing for your Perusing Pleasure

    New Thread Thursday
    +
    Shit Post Sunday

    READ ME
    Dismiss Notice

JoaT^2 15er - A Mafia Game

Discussion in 'Little Italy' started by Eidolonic, Jul 7, 2020.

  1. Cobalt

    Cobalt Third Year

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2015
    Messages:
    90
    Gender:
    Male
    My biggest concern is, wagonomically and based on the reads of most of the town Cuth needs to die, but my gut read still says he’s town especially with the lack of JOAT claim as Regfan mentioned.

    Cuth was leaving for the rest of the Day and was the presumed lynch, he was asked to claim if JOAT, he can at least delay his lynch by one cycle if he claims it. The vanilla claim is really throwing me here, and we are up shit’s creek without a paddle if we lynch Cuth and he’s a villager.
     
  2. Dels

    Dels Muggle

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2018
    Messages:
    4
    Okay, now that I've read that post fully:

    Reg I am getting the sense you are very mad at me. I don't want that to be the case. I am 100% going to listen to you today. I didn't yesterday and that was wrong of me and you have every right to be mad at me.

    That said, I wanna talk about something. This ties in to what you were saying about my yesterday which I wanted to respond to. I think you are doing great work solving the game, and I appreciate it. But a lot of the stances you take seem to be based on "this person isn't trying to solve", which assumes that all townies are trying to solve at the same level you are. It's just not the case. Not everyone is gonna play in that way. It's been a large part of what people are saying about Cobalt. And you essentially said it about me too, and I am town.

    Let me put this in context: The main thing you said yesterday about why you suspected me is that you didn't like that I didn't give an updated read on Fonti in my "pop in". That wasn't a pop in. You don't know my timezone so let me clear: It was 6am. I had not slept. (Well, barely slept) It took me hours to read the overnight posts. They had a lot of words. I'm consciously making an effort to not comment on everything unless I have something I feel is genuinely helpful to add. When people like you and Gemma have done a lot of work and laid everything out, I don't feel I have anything to say beyond adding some points and making my own read after taking it in. (See what Cobalt said about being an auxiliary townie in champs g6) Again, in that case - it was 6am. Beyond that, there's no way to really say this in a, uh, socially correct way, and I'm not trying to AtE, but I am just. As you can tell, I am not sleeping properly. And I am dealing with a massive amount of brain fog for that and other reasons. I do not have it in me to write up complex thoughts about Fonti, much less anyone else. I am legit having trouble taking in all the massive posts. This isn't a "woe is me" and it's certainly not a "you should feel bad for suspecting me", if you wolf read me based on what I am posting that is 100% fine and I give you permission to. But I don't see any way to respond to your point about me without saying that I am doing the best I can and that best did not mean giving an updated read on Fonti. My thoughts at the time was that I still felt she was wolfy but that I was becoming less and less convinced of it and was thinking I was likely going to not end on her. I had multiple posts open in tabs that I closed out there because I couldn't find the words to talk about them and didn't feel it would be productive.

    I hope that addresses your issues with me, but ultimately I want you to just read me on what I'm contributing. If you feel my progressions aren't clear then that is still on me and that's valid, though.
     
  3. tom

    tom First Year

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2016
    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    california
    High Score:
    0
    Dope
     
  4. Dels

    Dels Muggle

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2018
    Messages:
    4
    And for the record, I'm not just voting Cuth because it's what Reg wants.

    I did consider whether or not it was w/v wagons with partners blatantly saving Cuth (it really looks like this) or if it could be v/v and the scum did that movement specifically to make it look like Cuth was being saved.

    I still feel most of Reg's case on Cuth is NAI stuff, I still don't really find Cuth's posts wolfy. If it was entirely up to me, I'd probably just vote tom.

    But a) I am not confident in saying it was v/v that I'd actually stand in Reg's way here and b) If it was v/v, I literally do not have 3 wolves elsewhere. It'd mean I'm wrong about a read anyway and Cuth is far from one of my strongest reads so I am happy to say this could be the one I'm wrong about.

    I haven't looked at the EoD again super closely though, I'm actually still not done reading all of yesterday that I missed, so I'm going to take another look at it later and see if anything changes my mind enough to lock me in one way or the other.
     
  5. tom

    tom First Year

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2016
    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    california
    High Score:
    0
    Not sure what to tell you
    I have reads, neither viable wagon was in my most likely scum

    Still seen no reason to think im wrong tbh


    Cool that voting against you is scum motivated no matter what, ill keep that in mind in the future
     
  6. Dels

    Dels Muggle

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2018
    Messages:
    4
    And I am glad that you want to look at tom today. I am gathering part of what annoyed you was that people (I was one of them) said "tom is in reg's towncore" "reg is townreading tom" and you are right, you weren't, that was me being tilted in the moment. But it really felt like you were looking at everyone in your PoE but him.

    Either way, I agree with everything you said about tom.
     
  7. Ampharos

    Ampharos Muggle

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2018
    Messages:
    1
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    ATX
    tl;dr

    ##Vote: Cuthalion

    Going to just be quietly sheeping the DLP hivemind's reads now, don't mind me.
     
  8. Ampharos

    Ampharos Muggle

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2018
    Messages:
    1
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    ATX
    (In all seriousness I'll be around and digging into things beyond "lol vote Cuth" in a bit.)
     
  9. Cobalt

    Cobalt Third Year

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2015
    Messages:
    90
    Gender:
    Male
    I’m just gonna sit here ashamed with my tail between my legs for a little while. I’ll do things later.
     
  10. tom

    tom First Year

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2016
    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    california
    High Score:
    0
    No, you dont
    You just like agreeing with scumreads of me no matter what they say

    What youre agreeing with here makes all jarizok votes scummy, directly contradicts much of the waco case against me that you also agree with, and is some of the "this person isn't trying to solve" you literally just disagreed with.


    Please tell me why you want to agree with every negative thing about me despite being completely incapable of saying a word about me of your own
    I dont get it if its not because youre scum whos team im wrecking
     
  11. tom

    tom First Year

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2016
    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    california
    High Score:
    0
    Whats its like to be fucking wrong?

    I wouldnt know
     
  12. Cobalt

    Cobalt Third Year

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2015
    Messages:
    90
    Gender:
    Male
    Super unnecessary my dude.
     
  13. tom

    tom First Year

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2016
    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    california
    High Score:
    0
    Oh sorry do we not shit talk?
    Youre the one thats been pretending i havent done anything all week
     
  14. Dels

    Dels Muggle

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2018
    Messages:
    4
    some points about fonti i was noting while reading yesterday:

    i still do not agree with how she handled the jari/cobalt situation, even knowing the flip now. i felt like her PoV on cobalt was inconsistent. 1717 clearest example, various posts where she tries to explain the difference between town!cobalt and wolf!cobalt metas based on the idea of him being static or sticking to his reads, and it never really makes sense to me.

    This combined with the way she treats Jari's case 1794 . Let me try to put words to what I feel. It feels like she's being like "Well I think I can speak for everyone that we all immediately knew that Jari's case was 80% bullshit". And like. I don't feel that way? I hadn't read it in full yesterday. Now that I have, I don't even think it's a bad case? I think Cobalt is town despite it but it formed a coherent argument.

    Just something about the way Fonti handled the "meta" on both of them while trying to talk about them in relation to each other doesn't make sense to me.

    I'm not voting Fonti today and likely not even tomorrow but I wanted to voice this.

    (Also in response to Fonti 1639 I do not think this is a good answer. Yes, those are reasons why it could work as w/v but you ruled it out strongly as ever being w/w and I still don't see why, scum could easily give a townread on their buddy page 1. This isn't relevant anymore because Ter is dead but my point was still I felt you were giving out non-associatives too easily)
     
  15. Regfan

    Regfan First Year

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    High Score:
    0
    @Cobalt - I don't really read your play at EoD as scummy, more just bad. I think inside the PoE you're the least likely to be mafia. I do want to see if Fontisian & Gemma and co also have a similar impression of your play there. But I think your VT claim and attempt to shove on Jarizok there does makes sense in a "Thinking Jarizok is mafia putting forward a bad case on you" type world. About the Cuth claim thing, his reaction to his the wagon on him initially with the whole "I've waited 3 years for this I'm not going to get misyeeted in the first game we've V/V" is one I think he'd find difficult to sell coming from him as JOAT, same goes with a fair bit of his other play. There's also the whole "WIFOM" type angle of claiming VT. I just don't think it's a strong enough like thing/point to overpower read on his slot, how yesterday played out & needing his flip. We're not lynching outside of Cuth/Tom today, and we're only ever not lynching Cuth if like Fonti/Rubicon/Gemma come in here and think there's any chance I'm wrong on him. And it shouldn't have been as much of a surprise as it was that Jarizok is bad at reacting to wagons, I've seen him literally lead a lynch on himself as town before at DLP here. He just..should not have been wagoned there, it was all the PoE pushing it which means that lynch never goes through unless Jarizok is town, or it's Cuth/Jari; that said his reaction at the very EoD there post having 7 votes was just horrific and I don't blame you for reading that as W/W, was my reaction to it as well.

    @Dels - I appreciate your post, and have read it. But I'm not really going to try and read your alignment much anymore and am just going to leave it up to the rest of my town reads. I don't think I can do it objectively. I don't think my read on you should influence what you can and can't do in this game though, it's not as if I'll be shoving a yeet on you or anything. So if you're town here just go about scumhunting and playing and they might get there on you.

    This is a real big misrepresentation of what I've said, and you know it too. You swapped from a wagon you thought was very pure, on a player that you thought had some chance of flipping mafia, to a player that all three of your scum reads were voting and pushing. It really has nothing to do with me, or with Cuths alignment (I think that movement is just flat outright scum motivated regardless of his alignment), it has more to do with the fact that you're actively voting away from the people who you think are town to join your scum reads to yeet a player you don't think is mafia, and that you know some of your town reads think are town. And then post hammer you say you think the wagons are V/V. It's just an action that doesn't make an ounce of sense coming from town.

    2/10
     
  16. Rubicon

    Rubicon High Inquisitor DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2011
    Messages:
    507
    Location:
    US
    Sorry for ignoring you - it's hard to select "examples" because I think what I said about him being confident and doing a lot of solid analysis & scumhunting applies to most/all of his posts in this game. If you'd like one set of posts that I particularly thought was good, see his response to Jarizok's case on Cobalt and his follow-up posts to people discussing it. This happened after I stated my initial read - but still.

    I would like to understand your Sloth read better. Other than poking me (several times) and regfan to explain our townreads on him, you don't seem to have actually interacted directly with Sloth at all. If he's someone you're trying to solve, why not address more questions to him?

    I found this post from you:

    You call this a null-read, but it sounds like you actually wolf-read him? That's a lot of wolfy behavior you're seeing, and you don't agree with the townreads on his slot.

    Either way - would you be able to go into your thoughts on his D2 play more? Also, what specifically did you dislike about his interactions with Wisp?
     
  17. Rubicon

    Rubicon High Inquisitor DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2011
    Messages:
    507
    Location:
    US
    I am currently swamped IRL so I probably won't be the most useful member of this braintrust until Thursday. I need to get my head into this game more than it has been, and that will not happen in the next 24 hours.

    What I've read of your Cuthalion analysis makes sense to me. I think my own focus today will be on shoring up my second-tier townreads and specifically getting a more solid read on Waco and Dels.

    vote: Cuthalion
     
  18. fontisian

    fontisian Slug Club Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2011
    Messages:
    196
    Gender:
    Female
    I blame Vaimes.
     
  19. tom

    tom First Year

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2016
    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    california
    High Score:
    0
    Yes its a bit of hyperbolic response. Just as the push is.

    I did join the cuth wagon because thats what i said id do if you and fonti agreed. But i did not have him lower than null (see: rainbow walls and such)
    I didnt think he was scum though

    Jari i did have below null. Not the bottom, but scummier than cuth

    I dont remember seeing a big difference in wagon purity btw.
    Idk about when i voted, but towards the end vaimes/waco/sloth on jarizok, you/gemma on cuth...
    Like, i know you liked the cuth wagon. But amy/rubicon and its not like i trust fonti at all
     
  20. fontisian

    fontisian Slug Club Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2011
    Messages:
    196
    Gender:
    Female
    Yes, scum could, but Ter wouldn't.
     
Loading...