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Make DLP Great Again

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Sauce Bauss, May 27, 2018.

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  1. Hawkin

    Hawkin Minister of Magic

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    I agree with that. As I was reading the proposal of the OP, I just kept thinking: why are we not killing PatronusCharm? It is useless. Don't believe me? Here are some stats that are directly shown on the front page (which, for the record, doesn't provide incentive for anyone to post there...)

    That's four years ago. We lost the opportunity with the arrival of AO3, and we won't capitalize on anything with it. Plus, we're talking donation and I can only think of Lord Ravenclaw who's financing it from his own pocket at this point.

    Get rid of it. Focus on the forum with the amazing suggestions that have through this thread, but Patronus Charm died a while ago and the only thing left to do is to give it a proper burial.
     
  2. TheTycat

    TheTycat Second Year

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    I'd disagree on creating more subforums for different fandoms. Even more off putting than seeing them lumped together is seeing them dead. The Dresden Files and Worm discussion forums each have one active thread. The DF WbA isn't exactly active either. It just makes it so obvious that DLP isn't the place to go for those fandoms.
     
  3. Jester

    Jester Seventh Year DLP Supporter

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    As someone whose been frequenting this site since Vash was being accused of horrible things, and found this place because of LT2000 and his Dakaath: Prince of Darkness story. I didn't join up for a very long time remaining as a lurker mostly just out of pure fear, and social awkwardness.

    This site has grown and changed so much over the last decade, but it's reputation is firmly established amongst many casual readers. I love writing, and interacting in the WbA forums it's easily the number one reason I hang out on this site. I use it as a learning tool personally, pulling from all sorts of amazing editors, ideas, and different perspectives. I think having this site viewed as a place for the hardcore or a community for those interested in help and support makes more sense than just trying to make it more like SV or SB. This is a site I feel like I actually have to fucking proofread my posts, and I'm ok with that.

    I tend to agree that getting rid of the barriers between some of the fandom areas would help drive more engagement. Personally I've been introduced to so many different fandoms on this site by pure luck. Fate/Stay, Percy Jackson, DanMachi, RWBY, Dragon Age, and most importantly Worm are all things I'd never have thought to be a great source for fanfiction. Having people like Steelbadger writing some of the best LoTRs fanfiction I've encountered in the wild, Lamora and the greatness that he's squeezed out of Pokemon, Menace bringing the Lovecraft to Naruto that I never knew I needed, Joe turning Harry Potter into an Action Hero of epic proportions, Droman making me root for and against my fellow readers, and the myriad other examples of excellent Authors on this site that have been posting for what feels like forever.

    I think making the WbA one community, and utilizing the tags system we have could bring more collaboration between everyone who uses this site. I think that combining the forums makes them more accesible, and maybe having a tutorial on how tags work in a newbie forum could really help the site feel less intimidating.

    Also I'd love to ban Arthellion be able to become a subscribed member of DLP.
     
  4. theimmortalhp

    theimmortalhp Second Year

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    No, I agree. I think subforums should be discouraged as much as physically possible. What I'm saying is that an HP/Everything Else divide is also imperfect and makes expansion harder.
     
  5. Microwave

    Microwave Third Year

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    Maybe make is clearer that Scryer is part of DLP? A lot of people use Scryer without even knowing of the existence of DLP. Scryer right now seems like a completely separate website.
     
  6. momo

    momo Fifth Year

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    Wait Scryer is part of DLP?

    Oh man, I've been using it for quite a few months now and didn't even know. And I'm a member of this site.

    Definitely agree with this point then.

    Edit: Also, can someone link the discord that was mentioned a couple posts ago. I didn't even know that existed either.

    Now i seriously agree that this site needs to advertise more. If y'all are looking for some help with that, I can definitely contribute and would be happy to talk to people. I've helped build other "fringe" communities from a group of 10, quality, active members to over 400. I know a fair thing or two about internet advertising and would be happy to help this site out.

    And on those saying that we need to tone down hate. I see why that might be seen as important but we could, with perhaps a little more difficulty, explain to new members that that's simply the culture and we don't really have that much against people personally.

    Part of this site's appeal (at least to me) is that you don't feel like you're walking on eggshells.

    Just the other day someone called me a moderator of this site (Oz) called me a retard and I laughed and was reminded why this old school forum has an appeal to me.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
  7. Zombie

    Zombie John Waynes Teeth Prestige DLP Supporter

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    The fact that it's scryer.darklordpotter.net isn't a dead giveaway? Or all the links leading to DLP?
     
  8. momo

    momo Fifth Year

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    I've never actually typed in the url, just got linked there from somewhere else (might have been the reddit) and bookmarked it.
     
  9. Zombie

    Zombie John Waynes Teeth Prestige DLP Supporter

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  10. Microwave

    Microwave Third Year

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    Usually, people discover Scryer before they discover DLP, so they disregard the URL. You also need to create separate accounts for Scryer and DLP, which further isolates the two websites from each other.

    Another problem is that thematically, Scryer is just so different from DLP. The Scryer page and the main DLP page look like completely seperate entities. The only indication on the Scryer page that shows it is part of DLP is the menu at the top, and the footnote at the bottom, which most people disregard.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. momo

    momo Fifth Year

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  12. Xiph0

    Xiph0 Administrator Admin

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    Like proposing democracy on a site you've already been told to mind your boundaries on.
     
  13. Xiph0

    Xiph0 Administrator Admin

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    This is baked into the model of DLP, because the point was to have somewhere to help us filter down that 500 because it was a lot of work (before Scryer) to wade through what has always been a pretty steady stream of crap fic. To quickly hit on some other things (from my perspective, and in no way after some sort of consensus staff discussion):

    - Renaming from DLP is a hard nonstarter with me. Chasing that general forum 'dream' is a way for the site to really lose any identity, because there's established general forums out there that aren't worth trying to compete with. There's a lot that could be named, but Reddit is basically the biggest general forum at this point. It's just a difference in UI. There's also a lot of content compromises that come with appealing to the masses, particularly around NC-17 type things, that would overly complicate things.

    - Monthly subscriptions is a good idea, don't see any reason why we won't be doing this.

    - Quality of Life improvements are all pretty much unobjectionable, the problem there is that currently the only person on staff who is both capable and does any of that work is Raven, and it's a lot for one person after a day of doing it for your job anyway.

    - Megathreads, yeah, agreed. I've closed the ones I think are most egregious (Almost Recc and Books) but that puts the responsibility on the people to now go make those threads they say they want to make. You want to discuss fantasy books @CareOtters? Let's see it. I'm going to feel dumb if I look back in a year and I've closed the megathreads just for those subforums to die.

    - Welcoming/unwelcoming. I don't think current DLP is that intimidating (*could be vantage bias), I feel like we've largely cracked down on the sort of excessive hazing/trolling that used to be normal with regards to newer members. I do let arguments get heated on purpose, I don't think it's useful or good to overly police people into being strictly polite.

    - I don't see a good solution to the problem Selethe mentioned of ending up in "Similar Threads" from 2007/8. Archiving everything pre-2010 would result in a really messy 'dump' forum, and that's as far as I know the only way you could limit the access to specifically those threads on a post count basis.

    - Removing ratings from WbA seems like a simple and good thing, but having Googled/looked through the admin console for ~40 minutes I'm not seeing any way to control the ratings on a Node/Forum basis, just globally. Until someone more talented with Xenforo can figure out a solution that's a nonstarter.

    - Reorganizing forums, making some prominent others less prominent, etc. This feels like a thing everyone has contradictory opinions on. In general, I've seen things like Dresden sweep through the site as a very popular thing and then fade out fairly quickly. I'm reluctant to give any other fandom prominence because none of them seem to demonstrate the staying power HP has. Ultimately, we'd be left with dead, more prominent forums when the fad passes that we'd then hear calls to archive/consolidate/whatever. Not saying nothing will happen whatsoever, but I will say this has been a circular argument almost since the very beginning.
     
  14. EsperJones

    EsperJones Death Eater

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    I wonder if there's any way to replicate the megathread posting experience in the actual subforum mode. There's definitely a lot more mental energy to create a new thread to discuss something than just saying "so has anyone read <X>?" in a megathread. Is the latter acceptable? Can we make it acceptable if not?
     
  15. Xiph0

    Xiph0 Administrator Admin

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    I don't think there's any real rule against being casual when you make a thread, be my guest.
     
  16. Zombie

    Zombie John Waynes Teeth Prestige DLP Supporter

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    This is just as limiting as making people have a post count to view WbA, and you see what kind of waste land it is now. And the only reason that was really curbed was because we were trying to stop plagerism, iirc. Also, the fact that we have those old threads is a testament to the current existence of DLP. We're a community, and we evolve as one. The people that are represented in those threads are either not here anymore or they're totally different people.

    I've said this somewhere else before, but if youc an't make it here because you're scared to post because of judgement/fear/social awkwardness is indicative of your real life and not of the forum writ large. The thing is, if you really want join in, you can. You said it yourself, the only reason you're here is because me and a couple other members coaxed you into joining in. I don't expect you to make 100 post a day, but when you do contribute its relevant. Its a nice story that you told, your growth through the community and I see a lot of people that might share a similar world view.

    I used to be one of those members that took joy in berating and belittling but even I realize the futility of that with age. This entire thread, that @Sauce Bauss started, is about the longevity of the forums and growth of the community. There comes a point in time when forgiveness needs to be the word of the day. Don't let Old DLP color your vision of the future, we've got the potential to still grow. If people want to judge us based on post that are old then that's their prerogative, but threads like this should be indicative of our direction more than anything.

    From me to you (any lurker). I welcome you to the forum. The perceived elitism is only that. We've got a specific taste in everything, but in large part, the majority of our members are well educated and their opinions have been cultivated over a period of time. I feel like some of the old threads are unrepresentative of their time frame. There is a lot of new people that come in and bandwagon the same shit that has been going on for the past 10 years, and that's the type of shit that's got to stop. Because that is whats cultivating the image that the larger internet sees us as.

    We've gotta be the change we want to be.

    This. I agree with Xiph0. I'll say this again. Project DLP was never about a name change. I feel like people have misinterpreted old threads because that topic line carried a lot of weight. If you feel stigmatized because Anakin and the Flaming House is your standard, then you can change it under skin settings. Don't continue to fucking bitch about something that isn't an issue, especially when you have no fucking perspective. Simple statement.

    The bigger picture is this. Project DLP represented growth at a time of stagnation and it was a response to the community, just like a lot of this thread is intended to generate. We want community response to drive us into the future and we're here to have an open discussion about things that should and should not be prioritized. A name change isn't one of them. Now, I might be misunderstanding Project DLP myself, but I feel like I'm close on. The things we should be working towards is functional, logical, and easy to implement suggestions that would make quality of life better on the forums as well as public discourse for what we'd like to see changed going forward as well as the logistics of implementation.

    As Xiph0 stated, there is only one person that is really capable of doing this and that's Raven, and Raven isn't made of time. I won't presume to speak for him, but I feel like this is a large contender for a lot of things we want to implement. What I would suggest is that if you care about the community and want to contribute and you feel like you can't in any other way, is maybe become a subscriber. Raven posted about its implementation and I think its a good start. Money greases a lot of wheels. Xenforo has a mature modding community, and we don't have to be solely reliant on his skills to do this. There may be paid mods that can be easily ( I say this lightly) modified to suit our needs.

    Also, we have a substantial community of CS Majors. Why not poll the community for their skill sets?

    Its totally different than how things used to be. People are living in the past man.

    Yeah, I've tried this with Stylish. The container system its implemented under is a pain in the dick to deal with. I've looked into turning it into a node function so it can be selectively turned off but my skills are limited in this area.

    I think is reorganization is a logical step. Is there a reason why we have a Billy V. Snakeman subforum when its not been active in years? Can those posts not be merged back into gaming and the sub forum eliminated. I don't think outright consolidation is the key, though I feel like it would be useful in some areas, and I tend to agree with you on the prominence thing, but there is no reason that we can't generalize to an extent and still keep our identity.

    A lot of the outward facing forums we have right now were knee jerk reactions to community request. Can we not go back to the drawing board and put some significant thought into the structure of the forum going forward.

    And no, I'm not talking about making Other Fandoms prominent, I'm must talking about making it easier to navigate. In some cases I have to click through four different sub forums to get to a thread I just posted in, or just wait until it comes up in alerts/new posts again. And that shit sucks sometimes. Whereas we've got areas like Academia and Bookclub, and other forums that will or have died. There has to be a balance. And we have to work to determine that. Outright dismissal isn't going to fix things, HP is still our bread and butter and I'm not saying we get rid of it, or make it any less prominent, but something has to be done. Howe many categories in the library are still relevant to now? I know I've just recently marked the entire forums as read, so of the Six outward facing forums, one being not even HP related, there are two that have activity in them, and thats in one thread. The other two aren't even library threads, but a sorting mechanism that we've had long established.

    The steps taken in to Almost Rec'd I applaud. I've never supported mega threads, I feel like they kill discussion and I thank you for locking them. There is no reason that a new thread can't be made -- I feel like their origin and encouragement came from the fact that they're easy to moderate, and at the same time the userbase embraced them because they were judgement free zones in which if they had a poor showing their post could be hidden under forty other posts in a similar vein. I think its stupid. Post it, if you feel like its worth reccing to someone then it must be worth posting about.

    Just fucking do it.

    Something else I want to touch one since I have the time now. Community Outreach, Discord, and IRC.

    I encourage every new member to join DLP IRC. You can find it by clicking the chat button at the top of the screen, or if you have your own client you can type irc.darklordpotter.net:6697 into your server connection. Come there first, even those of you that would rather linger in the Discord. Keep in mind that all links are NSFW, and sometimes the topic matter is a little questionable but there's nothing wrong with us.

    And above all use some common sense, and don't let your emotions cloud your better judgement.

    As I stated before, be the change you want to be. Lets stop the cycle of shitting on new members because they don't know how to format a post correctly, and lets embrace them and help them grow. Lets do some targeted, sanctioned, invitation rounds in which we welcome new talent into the community. Lets push for exclusivity of content from our existing userbase(just an idea, doesn't need to be a thing), because that used to be a huge draw in the past (The Santi) and lets actually get to writing some shit and throwing it up for review and into the library. HP or Other Fandom or OF. I've written more over the past year than I have in the entire time I've been a member of DLP. I know that some of us have grown away from the fold, but there is no reason you can't come back. Or that new people can't take its place.

    I've rambled enough.

    TLDR: Lets not let this die down and become a bunch of buzzwords, lets be the impetus of change here. Also, ban Arthellion.

    E: Re: Billy v Snakeman. looks like this subforum is now gone, I did have a userstyle that killed certain forum nodes, but turned that off thinking it was just hidden, looks to be totally gone. Cool. But point of emphasis still stands.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
  17. Lindsey

    Lindsey Death Eater

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    The reputation problem is two fold. One, it's hard to break out of a predefined notion of what something is. DLP, has had, for a long time, a reputation of being direct, cold and frankly quite mean. It has changed quite a bit since then, but it is still a problem in some review threads and WIP for new members. It is something we need to be aware of moving forward if we want to attract more people. Especially if we want people to come here and ask for writing help.

    The second problem is... DLP is a guys club. For the amount of women there are in Harry Potter fanfiction (probably the majority), it is the complete opposite here. This is more-than-likely related to the first point; as women tend to be less direct and harsh, even on the internet. It certainly took me years to feel comfortable on this website as a lot of the attitude goes against everything I was taught. I made myself seem tougher/meaner for years, before I realized I gave zero fucks about what some dudes on the internet thought of me. I am sure I am not the only one.

    The second problem of DLP is how narrow of a focus it is, even within the fandom. I rarely see fanfics make it to the library without Harry as a central character. This is the same with unpopular pairings, such as slash or female!Harry/Other male character. I know a lot of DLP members don't read the above stories, and that is fine, but I often saw people rank a story poorly, or post a crap review because they didn't like slash, or a pairing, not because the story itself is bad.

    There are some amazingly written stories out there that old-DLP would never accept. I have a few favorites I don't even bother posting here as I know the current users aren't interested. If we want to expand the forum, it does mean expanding what would be acceptable.

    I agree with some of the above users to make DLP more fantasy oriented as a whole (how about starting up the book club for some other fantasy novels!). I just don't want to forget our roots in HP, or turn into SV. I don't want to see badly written quests and SI everywhere. The idea of that makes me shiver.

    I would propose changing our forum system similar to

    Remove General Discussion & Hall of Shame
    Merge the Support category to one forum.

    *Review Category
    Review Forum
    Books
    -- Harry Potter
    -- ASOIAF
    -- Any categories with 100+ fanfics up for review
    Movies/TV (Add Videogames?)
    -- Any categories with 100+ fanfics up for review
    Comics/Manga/Anime
    -- Any categories with 100+ fanfics up for review
    Original Fiction

    *Fanfic Discussion
    Books
    -- Harry Potter
    Movies/TV
    Comics/Manga/Anime

    *Works by Author
    Books
    -- Harry Potter
    Movies/TV
    Comics/Manga/Anime
    Quests
    Original Fiction
    Story Competitions & Challenges & Story Showcase

    These a just a few tidbits I have thought of over the last eight years I've been a member (and longer for lurking). My god, it has been a long time.
     
  18. Zombie

    Zombie John Waynes Teeth Prestige DLP Supporter

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    I've personally never found an issue with directness. I hate people that meander their point until its confusing. I agree there is an issue with perceived reputation. Reputation itself has lived longer than the actual acts committed to earn them. I wish this wasn't the case, and the only way to move past just to move past it really. I hope that any of this serves as an example of the future, to lurkers and prospective members that we're not all bogeymen.

    I read HPFF for Harry. Now. I've read several things out side my comfort zone, and have ended up enjoying them. Open statement here. If you have something you think is library worthy, submit it. There are maybe three people left that are going to shit on a story because its slash, or its fem!Harry or whatever. That's a way old bandwagon mechanic that doesn't really occur anymore, and would be a lot less common if people just didn't give into their baser instincts.

    DLP is a lot more progressive than you think, and always have been. We hated Slash out of principle because the mechanics don't make sense, ever. For example. Take two hetero males that hate each other, and put them in a situation where having sex is the logical outcome, or even romance for that matter.

    But this isn't a debate space for why DLP hates or doesn't hate Slash. I'll leave it at this. Just put it up for review, and the community will sort it out. It will either not get read, or the people that do read it, will review it. But you can't just put something up in the library and be like, "I really liked this guys, you should read it to." And that be it. You're going to have to actually review it. Few people do that anymore.



    First problem? Or we got a lot of second problems. 99 problems and they're all second problems. Something something, funny funny.

    Anyways. Yes, there is a larger concentration of men here. I won't waste time in trying to count each female I've interacted with on the site, but will boil it down to the fact at foundation, the theme of the site was Dark Lord Potter, and there aren't many females that are focused on that. While tastes have changed, we're still inherently Dark Lord Potter.

    Re: Be the change you want to be. I encourage everyone to start posting to the review sections of the library, and not just the almost rec'd threads. Its gotta happen sometime. Talking about it isnt' going to do much in the ways of solving anything.

    We're not OLD-DLP. I'd like to put a stop to any further comparison to that time line. Its not conducive to continued discussion. We're looking for evolution. If you have something that's relevant to OLD DLP to DLP-OF-TODAY then it'd be alright to make the comparison, otherwise it just turns into a circlejerk of how we used to be this and how we used to do that.

    As stated above, put them in the library. I'll read them if they're good. Anyone here would. We've gotta relax our laurels a bit here and stop cracking up the decline of the library and other shit to how specific and peculiar our taste are. Its fucking laziness is what it is.

    I'm guilty of it, Sauce is guilty of it. Why post about it when you can quick mention it in IRC or in a PM or somewhere else because thats your intended audience. That fear of posting to the public has to stop, pull that shit off like a bandaid.

    Keep in mind, this isn't attacking you, just using some of your comments as a spring board here.

    Also for fucks sake can we stop talking about SV/SB here. We don't want to be like them. I know some people frequent over there and its the easiest example to bring up, but I feel its counter-intuitive to just keep fucking mentioning it. This is Make DLP Great Again, not Make DLP an Approximation of what makes SB/SV as successful as it is.
     
  19. Lord Ravenclaw

    Lord Ravenclaw DLP Overlord Admin

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    That's false. DLP gets an order of magnitude more traffic than Scryer:

    Code:
    dlp_impressions    scryer_impressions    week_start
    86815    4979    2018-05-21 00:00:00
    87625    4412    2018-05-14 00:00:00
    86857    4520    2018-05-07 00:00:00
    90585    4072    2018-04-30 00:00:00
    86632    3946    2018-04-23 00:00:00
    88898    4417    2018-04-16 00:00:00
    99182    4476    2018-04-09 00:00:00
    98596    4824    2018-04-02 00:00:00
    Also, there's a lot less unique users.

    I guess? I mean, they're right there in the thread list now. Any ideas?

    Good news, you can! Go to Account Upgrades (soon to be advertised). Two folks have already subscribed (thank you!). I'll be working on adding active subscriptions to the donor bar.
     
  20. Xiph0

    Xiph0 Administrator Admin

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    It's not a bug, it's a feature.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2018
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