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Make DLP Great Again

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Sauce Bauss, May 27, 2018.

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  1. Thaumologist

    Thaumologist Chief Warlock

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    A thought I had today, although it is pretty minimal.

    In the past, it used to be that we would put up for review fics at 4 and up, and a fic rated at a 3 would go in the (now defunct) AR thread. Things changed a while back, and we were supposed to stick things rated at a 3 up for review.

    The problem is, fics rated at a 3 go into "almost recommended". And if I'm putting it up at 3/5, it's not because I could "almost" recommend it - it's because the story is a guilty pleasure. That frames the AR section more positively, which could help
     
  2. Zombie

    Zombie John Waynes Teeth Prestige DLP Supporter

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    Pretty sure that was the whole point of Xiph0's post in Almost Rec the other night. Put anything that's a 3 there. Instead of posting it in the mega thread. Make an entry.

    And then it can be voted on accordingly.

    The issue with the mega threads like Almost Rec is that what you might find as guilty pleasure is something someone else enjoys. We're wanting to share here. Make a new post. Its not that hard.
     
  3. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign Prestige

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    This is all very amusing. So, am I undertanding this right? There's an argument being put forward that we should compromise the core of what we all enjoy about DLP to poach members from SV/SB/etc.

    The problem isn't with our culture. The is no problem with DLP's culture. We should instead extend invitations to people who might appreciate DLP for what it is. In fact, I might just send a few PMs on FFN. Be the change I want to see and all that.
     
  4. CareOtters

    CareOtters Chief Warlock DLP Supporter

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    This thread is going a bit over the top, tbh. I propose an alternative solution. I suggest that members wishing for DLP to be more active and engaging for themselves and others do the following:

    1) Post new threads
    2) Reply to existing threads
    3) Hang on IRC
    4) ???
    5) Profit!
     
  5. Thaumologist

    Thaumologist Chief Warlock

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    That's what I've been doing, and so far neither of the two recs I've put up as 3/5 made it into the library, which I'm not surprised about. I put them up because I liked them, even if they had some pretty major issues.

    But it's more the feeling side of the process - putting something up to end up in the "not actually good" pot isn't ideal, and I figured more people might be likely to if it wasn't called "almost recommended".
     
  6. Zombie

    Zombie John Waynes Teeth Prestige DLP Supporter

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    Well, it was the Trash Bin before. I guess another name revision is the suggestion?
     
  7. Hawkin

    Hawkin Minister of Magic

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    Serpentguy started here as a writer in the WbA, but even there his treatment was far from kind. Additionally, you can write a general review or opinion without calling someone a:

    It's not because something was socially acceptable in 2005, that is still is in 2018. The Internet has changed people, the line between RL and Virtual Life has thinned. You are dealing with a generation that has had social media being part of their life since their pre-pubescent years. Whether you agree or not with it, be ready to face the consequences of keeping your hardass attitude and FFA on newcomers; one such consequence being the decline of this forum because authors and readers are too scared to post for fear of being belittled, insulted, shamed, etc. You say you want to cater to the readers, but you don't.

    You cater to the old crowd. And that's fine, they're your foremost members. They probably post the most out of everyone, they write stories, they find stories and put them up for review. However their attitude has led to many lurkers feeling completely unwelcome in participating in discussions or opening new threads. Here are some examples, from this very own thread, which you guys have seemed to ignore:

    Make DLP Great Again

    Make DLP Great Again

    Make DLP Great Again
     
  8. vlad

    vlad Groundskeeper Prestige

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    Better to die than become SIYE.

    Dulce et Decorum est pro five-star fanfiction mori

    Cowards receive reviews of 'omg I love what you did with Ginny here' many times before their deaths; The valiant never taste of thumbs up but once.

    Edit: "It's not because something was socially acceptable in 2005, that is still is in 2018. The Internet has changed people..."

    I will never change. As DLP's official time capsule, I will continue to recognize when things are teh gayz and speak on behalf of those who, trapped in the current year, cannot.

    Yur welcomzzzzzzz
     
  9. Selethe

    Selethe Don't Assume My Gender

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    Other people have said it above me-- but I for one am definitely going to try harder to be more active, post recommendations, and make interesting threads. As a tangent, however, can we discuss the gamification system? It's probably the thing I'm most interested about in the proposed document. It would be cool if members were randomly split amongst the four Houses, and they had to work to earn points for their House (e.g. if a recommendation makes it in the library / thumbs you earn on a post = points for your house, etc) that could motivate people to be more active. And if the different Houses all had their own private subforum, in which new members could learn the ins and outs of DLP in a training-wheels-setting, it could help lurkers/new members wade into the larger forum. It would also be fun. However, I can think of many downsides, such as toxic competition between Houses (rating library threads created by someone from your House overly high so the House will get points). What do you guys think?
     
  10. Microwave

    Microwave Third Year

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    It might discourage people from giving thumbs up to people not in their group though.
     
  11. Caledfwlch

    Caledfwlch Sixth Year DLP Supporter

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    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but maybe re-opening the introductions forum?
     
  12. Zombie

    Zombie John Waynes Teeth Prestige DLP Supporter

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    That will be a hard no from the staff most likely. Introduction forums were removed because they were a shit show and people were abusing them a la culture.
     
  13. Caledfwlch

    Caledfwlch Sixth Year DLP Supporter

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    That's fair, but according to this post it was closed in 2011? I feel like DLP back then was wildly different to what the forums are like today.
     
  14. Zombie

    Zombie John Waynes Teeth Prestige DLP Supporter

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    According to everyone in this thread its not. Moot point mang. Good idea though.
     
  15. Threadmarks: NaCl
    Sauce Bauss

    Sauce Bauss Headmaster DLP Supporter

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    I've refrained from posting much in here because I didn't want this to be a session of Sauce soapboxing to the masses. Rather, it was to have my post engender discussion and see what type of changes the userbase would want or support. This was about concrete changes that can be implemented in the near to medium term.

    The first half of the thread was reeeing about name changes, and the second half was complaining about culture and gender. Fuck name and brand changes at this point if it's going to derail substantive discussion. I should have known better considering how it went the first time in the improvement thread I linked in OP. When it comes to culture, that's something that grows organically and changes only slowly. The most effective way you have to change broader forum culture is to be the change you want to see. Moaning about how unwelcoming DLP is today betrays a shocking lack of perspective given the forum's history. Half of you talking about it would have probably been banned or driven away in 2009. Moderation is downright paternal compared to before, and people get more second chances than they deserve more often than not.

    For those saying that we don't accept stories outside of the DLP wheelhouse, you're objectively wrong. We have a slice of life, epilogue compliant Harry/Ginny story from the PoV of a muggle woman in the library. We have a fem!Harry/Snape story in the library. If you'd told anyone in 2007 that those would be the stories entering the library, they'd have quit the forum in disgust.

    We are not trying to copy SV/SB, we are not trying to steal their users, we are not trying to become them. Let's end it with that. We can look at certain things they do organizationally that are worth emulating, but that's it.

    Honestly, I'm just disappointed. Old members want nothing to change, new members want nothing but change. To prevent this thread from ending like the last two attempts at forum reflection, please start thinking about DLP's future instead of dwelling on its past.

    As to the original topic, abandoning PC and not going full hog on quests makes sense. If it's possible to do in-line polls, that'd be a massive QoL improvement for quests while not having to invest the time and effort in revamping PC or something. I'd like to see the welcome PM and consider what information we give new users and when. If we direct them to the stickies(also make sure all stickies are up to date), direct them to irc/discord, encourage them to post, etc. then it'll hopefully ease the transition. The point about Scryer being thematically different is fair, and making DLP's association with it more prominent on the page is a good idea. The eventual linking of Scryer/DLP accounts will also be a great addition as Scryer becomes more feature complete.
     
  16. Farhial

    Farhial First Year

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    The only change I'd really like to see is collapsing the Harry Potter Library categories into one Harry Potter library. Right now the categories introduce artificial difficulty when I'm looking for fics I might like, and introducing a more codified tag system I could search the Library with would be better. For instance, if I want to find A Black Comedy and stories like it, where do I go? It's in an alternate dimension, so maybe it's in The Alternates? Nope. Well, it's funny, so surely it's in the Humor section? Not there either. It's in General Fics.



    Regarding gamification and separating the userbase into the four Houses: I think it's a fun idea, but I agree that it might result in changed user behavior that wouldn't be fun. Perhaps if you kept everyone's houses hidden, even from the users, and tracked thumbs/posts/other trivia that everyone could see (points hourglasses)? And then every month/couple months you award a House Cup, reveal everyone's House (on their profile or something?), and people are assigned a different House and the points start from scratch again? You could keep a tally of which House has the most Cups and people get a House Cup Winner badge or something.

    Edit: I was thinking we wouldn't know what House we were until the House Cup was awarded, just have something like "Ravenclaw has given/received 30 thumbs this month." Obviously people might still suss out what House they are, but you could untie it from being a points gathering stat if it was being used for evil. Do you think this would still result in shitty user behavior @TheWiseTomato ?
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2018
  17. Hawkin

    Hawkin Minister of Magic

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    Giving points for having your story into the Library would probably lead to people of the same house voting for their own. However the system is interesting, and could be a nice way to promote other content such as story competition perhaps? Or if your story (as in the one you have written) ends up in the library you get points for your house.
     
  18. Arthellion

    Arthellion Ban(ned) Arthellion

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    Discussing gamification, I think one thing to consider is the time burden that might put on the mods. You’d basically be making them game masters and opening a door to so many more issues.

    The big issues would be factionalism and favoritism effecting the other features of DLP.

    It’s a great idea in concept but I don’t see how it works practically
     
  19. TheWiseTomato

    TheWiseTomato Tactical Tomato DLP Supporter

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    Yeah nah fuck Thumbs being points. That'll just turn it into something like the dark days of the rep system, and I wasn't even a registered member then. I'm keen for it being an automated thing; you get points for threads in For Review, you get points for a review in a For Review thread, you get points per word in a threadmarked (so author submission) post in WbA, you get points per feedback post in WbA. I could probably think of a few other earners given a few minutes, but the main thrust is that it wouldn't require mod supervision beyond making sure no one is shitposting in the wrong places.


    ban arthellion
     
  20. TMD

    TMD Groundskeeper DLP Supporter

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    I have little to contribute regarding the culture of the forum, being a relative noob, and considering it's been discussed to death already. All i'll say is that I often type out responses to threads which never get posted because I decide they're not high quality enough. I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing.

    For me, DLP is about two things:
    1. A place for good writers to come and share their new stuff and get objective, constructive criticism - that's criticism that isn't bloated with superfluous encouragement like you'd get on FFN reviews. Cliche as it is, you don't forge a good weapon by wanking off the metal, you make one by throwing it into fire and hitting it with a hammer. Repeatedly. Write enough here, be willing to listen and put your ego aside, and the folks here will help you become a good writer.

    2. A place to compile and archive the best works of fanfiction. This has largely focused on HP, but as the fandom declines the focus has gradually shifted slowly to other areas. I don't bother searching FFN myself, or various subreddits for new stuff to read. If it's good, I can be confident it'll end up here sooner or later. That ranges from HP, to Naruto, Worm, Pokemon, Star Wars, etc.

    It's weird for a forum, but there's a sense of comradeship here that one wouldn't expect. Even though you're a bunch of rando fucks on the internet, I still somewhat care when Gio stabs himself in the foot or Taure advances on his career ladder. So if you agree with those two core aspects, where and how do they need to be improved/modernised/grown? In doing so, how can we ensure DLP retains the same quality of discussion, core tradition and atmosphere.

    On the 'focus' of the forum, the above two must be the core. Changing direction to make this a 'fantasy' themed board isn't what DLP is. The goal should be to re-establish DLP as the powerhouse where all of the fucking best fanfic writers are. And not just for HP, but for everything. The best pokemon writers should be here putting their new shit in WbA because they know that's this is the place to be if they want their story to be great. If anyone is bored one day and has a sudden urge to read star wars fanfic, this is the place they should come because they know all the decent fics have been reviewed and the best added to the library.

    On inviting new members, this goes hand in hand with the above. Many have commented that prolific writers and members here have grown up, got real life commitments and simply don't have the time anymore - and that's fine. But there is always new talent. Where is the next generation of Shezza, Nonjon, Lamora, Kwan Li et al? They should be here. And if they're not, we should bring them here. The last story competition was won by a new member which is exactly what needs to keep happening. We don't want randos joining that'll come and shitpost the forum to death, we need to get quality writers, and people who can make the distinction between quality writing and dogshit. Recently the fic 'The Mind Arts' was posted in Review Board with a lot of good discussion about it's pros and cons. The author himself (@Wu Gang) showed up, made an account and got stuck in to discuss his story. He did that because someone here PM'd him on FFN to let him know his story was being reviewed on the DLP. That should be the standard for all good stories that get posted up for review here. If it's almost recommended or better, convince them to join and put their new stuff in WbA so it can absolutely be library worthy. Do that, and when all the best stories in every major fandom have "Winner of the XXX DLP competition" in the summary, or "Thanks to X Y Z at DLP for beta'ing" in the A/Ns then you know you're moving in the right direction. To accomplish that, the frequency and variety of competitions should ramp up in line with the influx of new writing. Competitions shouldn't be limited to just HP, or per quarter.

    On the layout of the subforums, good suggestions have been made previously. I agree with the point there's a lot of arbitrary distinctions between HP library subforums. If they were collapsed into one, as long as stories were tagged well it would be fine. Other Fanfic needs to be reorganised, possibly using the 'misc' subforum labels so - Anime, Films, Games, TV or something like that. Could also introduce a threshold number of library fics for something to get their own subforum. I imagine Worm and Naruto might be reasonable places to start. Regarding voting system changes, the current 1-5 star system is fine imo. I think it could be improved by just multiplying values by 10 and displaying the score rather than the star rating. So people still click 1-5 stars, but that gets recorded as 10-50. >34 ends up in the library, and its easy to compare fics that display e.g. 47 and 36 rather than squinting at partially filled in stars.

    On Discord/IRC, the old guard are all still attached strongly to IRC which is understandable. The rest of the internet is basically on Discord. Most subreddits have their own discord, as do twitch communities, gaming communities, anime communities, fitness communities, you name it there are multiple discord servers for it. It's just a good program. Given that fewer people have a desktop IRC client installed, but most have Discord installed it seems a no brainer which new members (and some older) would rather chat on.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2018
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