In terms of Black Widow end credits:

Spoiler

My audience reacted audibly to JLD's appearance and some were definitely exclaimed at the reveal of Hawkeye as the target. Clearly it's going to tie into the Hawkeye TV show with Hailee Steinfeld (who I will watch in anything because she's unreasonably talented).

 

I can't possibly be the only one who thinks its obvious that the Person behind the TVA is another Loki, right?

Like, the show has been kind of obvious about it.

 

People started thinking it was Kang, but seem to have shifted to King Loki. After the double bluff the WV pulled it would be very on brand for that.

 

It's probably King Loki working with Kang. That way you have a twist and establish the villain for the next appearances.

 

I wouldn't be so sure about Kang being in this series at all.

Remember how people were so sure about Mephisto being in WandaVision?

 

Yeah, I really don't think Kang will be making any kind of appearance. Because I'm pretty sure he might currently be in the quantum realm.

This was Loki's show from beginning to end.

 

My money has been on the idea has been that it's the future versions of this Sylvie and Loki, not a new Loki.

 

After the Mephisto theories, I'm not going to say anything is going to happen definitely, but having Ravonna Renslayer, Kang's supporting character, involved suggests he will be at least mentioned or even get a credit scene.

 

And then it turns out that Ralph Bohner is behind everything.

 

I have to admit, I'm a little bit torn on Loki. Warning. Waffle incoming.

On the one hand, it's been a lot of fun. Hiddleston is, as usual, great watching, and while I was initially a bit sceptical of Sylvie when she was first revealed I've really been enjoying what she brings to the show. Mobius is great, and while Renslayer doesn't quite hit a home run (some of her actions and reactions seem a little arbitrary after the Timekeepers reveal) she's still completely passable.

On the other hand, I'm kinda expecting to be let down by the final episode.

Narratively speaking, I don't think Kang works. The only setup for him (or Immortus) is in the form of nods to comic book continuity and canon, and for a viewer who isn't steeped in theorycrafting dropping Kang as the final villain would feel like a complete ass-pull. You can't use comic nods for hard-core nerds in the place of actual foreshadowing or setup. You could if it was a fanfic (and I will admit that its fanservice occasionally feels very fanfic), but as a 'proper' work, it probably needs to abide by the rules. WandaVision did, anyway.

So in my opinion the only way Kang can work is as some minor aspect of the final villain. Perhaps the villain is doing what they are to stop Kang, or perhaps they are being used by Kang as intermediaries (with a post credit reveal a la Thanos).

Which pretty much leaves us with a Loki variant as the villain. Everything about the narrative to this point seems to suggest that it can only really be a Loki. Moreover, it pretty much has to be a Loki who is everything Loki from Ep. 1 thought he should be. He is the ruler of all of time, he is still every bit as arrogant and backstabbing, he is still alone in the universe, despite being a breath away from hundreds of variants of himself. Surely that's the narrative route everything has been building towards? New Loki vs His Former Self.

The thing is that as a core conflict, I'm just not all that invested. Of course they could pull the rug from under us with a 'it was a backstab all along!' twist, but I doubt it will happen. It would mean that they just spent 5 episodes bringing their primary character through this internal journey only to shout 'psych!' at the end, invalidating everything that has happened. We've already seen the core ethos of 'people can change' demonstrated through Classic Loki and Mobius. That might be part of why I'm not all that invested in Loki's internal journey. He seemingly wants to change. It has been shown to be possible. He also seems to have actually changed through his relationship with Sylvie. It doesn't actually need a resolution at this point. Episode 5 already pretty much resolved it. He was willing to stand with Sylvie in front of a cloud of certain doom, and he trusted in her power. Boom. That arc is done.

So the final episode will either need to step that back (which will be a bit annoying), or add some new conflict that I'm unlikely to buy as actually likely to cause conflict. An example of this would be the main Villain offering Loki control over the TVA, or that being a possibility somehow. While they probably could string that decision out to an hour, I'm not sure it would be satisfying. Loki has already demonstrated his trust in and admiration of Sylvie. In effect, he should have already made this choice. He might um and ah, but it's still a foregone conclusion, which robs it of a lot of its potential as a climactic conflict.

Still, I stand ready to be impressed. I want the show to pull out something interesting, and which makes sense for the characters, and the narrative that has been constructed thus far. Maybe it will branch out into the greater MCU and have Thor as the villain (though in many ways I don't see how this fits all that well with Loki's arc).

Perhaps the villain actually is a big good, and the Loki behind the curtain really is stopping the multiverse from imploding, but who now wishes to pass the torch to our Loki due to how tired he has become of it. Perhaps it even offers him the opportunity of giving Sylvie her old life back. Perhaps that's how we get the final betrayal, while maintaining Loki's new heroism, and he 'resets' Sylvie (not prunes) against her wishes so that she can show the world how truly great a Loki can be (assuming her nexus event was deciding to be a hero). Or something. Perhaps he will allow himself to be railroaded by fate, so that Sylvie can forge her own.

I've come to really like Sylvie, though, and I don't want to lose her character. There's also the fact that Loki has a second season coming at some point. Maybe that second season is Sylvie feeling like something is off about her life, and hunting Hiddleston's Loki down to find out what's going on. Or maybe we don't get full closure in this season at all. Just some vague stuff pointing to Kang (who can then be set up 'properly' in Multiverse of Madness or something) to be resolved in season 2.

Maybe I should just wait and watch the next episode.

 

Honestly, and perhaps this is a "casual" take on my part as someone who likes the MCU but has never read the comics or watched theory videos, it feels like you're overthinking it.

The way I see it - and dare I say, the way the vast majority of MCU viewers see it - not revealing Kang won't be a let down at all. Most viewers probably have no idea who he is. Sure, you see an article or two mentioning his name, but that's nowhere near the same thing as getting invested in the character.

I'm sure a lot of people disagree with me here, but with a couple exceptions (like the core Avengers movies), I believe that considering the "cinematic universe" perspective is a sub-optimal way to experience individual works like Loki - it's just not as enjoyable.

Obviously most people have seen other Marvel works and something in-universe will never be the same thing as a true stand-alone work, but I think the best way to enjoy the movies and shows is as relatively independent creations.

When I watch Loki, I'm not thinking about the MCU, I'm just having fun. Enjoy the cool cinematics, the fun storytelling, and the light adventure vibe.

The MCU is certainly a triumph of cinema, but honestly, critics aside - who cares? I like Loki because it's engaging and fun. I like most other MCU creations for the same reason. To me, Loki doesn't need to setup a massive universal conflict. It doesn't need an extremely meaningful conflict.

The standard for any superhero work is a fun watch. Loki has been a lot of fun and I'm sure the finale will be too.

 

Hmm. Maybe I wasn't clear.

I am most certainly overthinking this, but I didn't mean that I would be disappointed if it's not Kang. I'm not a comics guy, all I knew about Kang before his name started coming up in Loki chatter was his name.

To be honest, I'm with you. For most of this time I've simply watched and enjoyed. I like the TVA aesthetic (even if it feels a little derivative after seeing Umbrella Academy, though I obviously appreciate that the TVA predates the Commission by a long time). I've really enjoyed Loki and Sylvie's interactions, and the willingness to be weird the show has demonstrated.

I just thought it might be fun to do a bit of over-thinking, and the result is that I worry that they might have blown their load early with Loki's main personal conflict.

From looking at what we've seen so far, the core thread of the series so far is 'Self-Determination vs Fate'. It comes up in a few flavours which are closely related to each other. Loki considers himself to be 'Truly Free', and hates the idea of the TVA controlling the path of his life. The more dominant facet, though, is what you might consider the driving question of episodes 4 and 5: 'Can people change?'

We see this in all the characters. Mobius, who has devoted his life (so far as he's aware, anyway) to the TVA has changed his views upon discovering the truth. Classic Loki believed that all Lokis are fundamentally broken, and incapable of anything more noble than the most basic of self-preservation instincts, only to then take Mobius' comments to heart. Even Hunter B-15 chose to change, to fight the fate laid out for her by the TVA.

Renslayer represents something a little different. She has 'woken up', but seemingly prefers to remain asleep. She is Cipher from the Matrix, I guess.

Where it gets a little more difficult is with Sylvie. She doesn't have the same internal conflict driving her motion. She is driven to destroy the TVA because of the top level 'freedom vs predestination' theme, yes, but there's not much in her story of character that ties her to the question which seems to drive all the other characters. I suspect her connection to that theme will come from her as yet unrevealed Nexus event which may or may not have been her determination to be 'good'.

So the driving narrative force, as I see it, is 'Can people change?' and what concerns me is that I think we already have our answer. Yes.

Even Loki has demonstrated his ability to change at this point. So unless the final reveal is actually 'No' (which I guess is the straight betrayal ending), we don't really have much space to move in. It's also not really on brand with Marvel in general.

It's a flashy, fun, engaging show and I've really enjoyed it, but it's not especially thematically complicated. Which is fine. It doesn't need to be. My concern going in to episode 6 is that the single real driving conflict we do have (outside the simple 'who is in charge?' mystery, which is surface level) are largely resolved, or foregone conclusions.

But like I said, I stand ready to be impressed. I fully expect the final episode to be a fun ride. I just have to hope that they have something left in the tank to lend that fun the weight I think the show deserves.

 

I have the same feelings. Last episode will make or break this show for me. The question of 'who?' is rather irrevelant to me as someone largely unfamiliar with Marvel Comics. But 'why?' on the other hand... leaves me hoping that writers will deliver with a compelling reason for the whole TVA con and not something that will leave me scratching my head.

I greatly enjoyed first half of the show. Starting with Kafkaesque distopian TVA, warming up to Sylvie during the train ride which reminded me of particular Doctor Who episode and not being disappointed with the resolution to the 3rd episode cliffhanger. That being said, last episode was a bit of let down. After tense and reveal heavy fourth episode, pacing of the last episode felt disjointed. Moreover, I have some misgivings about couple of things.

First - Alioth. Really, the great cloud is the thing that keeps all of the Loki variants trembling at the end of the time. Okay, I did a bit of digging and it is apparently another comics reference but I feel as far as MCU monsters this one feels a bit underwhelming. Then, there is a matter of Renslayer but to me it looks more like a facade she tries to maintain to remain in control of TVA when she has another plan in mind (hopefully).

On the other hand, seeing various Loki variants was great. What's interesting was the group that rescued the main character Loki - we see different reasons that could lead to the change in Loki. Seeing Asgard destroyed, killing Thor - it feels a bit like a sandbox for different character developments.

 

I’m calling it, Gator!Loki was the foot in the door for Floridaman!Loki ruling us all.

 

Quoting this for posterity.

 

Wow. They actually nailed the ending. 10/10 show for me.

Spoiler

I let you guys convince me they weren't going to introduce a new character and just do a boring King Loki discussion, but they committed and actually introduced a new villain, made him threatening, and basically just made a 6-episode long setup for the next MCU phase.

 

Spoiler

Sylvie turned out to be the wildcard. Turns out she was the one not to be trusted. An excellent episode, though I am a tad disappointed we didn‘t get to find out what Renslayer was up to before episode‘s end.

A Loki displaced from his own timeline with an unfamiliar Mobius makes for a very tasty set-up for Season 2. Additionally, with BenevolentDictator!Kang dead, I guess everything is on the table for future Marvel projects, too. I predict glorious chaos.

 

Thanks for putting spoiler tags.

I will wair and watch first.

 

Spoiler

Gotta say, after watching Wanda enslave an entire town, because she was sad, Black Widow assault and bury a prison, because apperantly they didn't have visiting hours and Fem!Loki decide the fate of every living thing without even taking a moment to think about it, because "it was personal to her", I'm kinda starting to question the morality of MCU writers. At least, in Fem!Loki's case, since she's technically a villain, they felt safe enough to have someone call her out on her bullshit.

About the show as a whole, it wasn't all that great. Don't get me wrong, it was good, better than WandaVision, imo, but not as good as people make it out to be. Even though it tackles some interesting themes, it was only on a surface level, the settings doesn't really work when you start questioning it and the plot could've been tighter.

You know, for "the greatest power in the universe", those TVA guys sure weren't all that threatening with their glowing sticks, non-existent battle tactics, NPC-like monotone lines and the knack for getting their important equipment stolen. I mean, was I the only one to chuckle at the bit towards the end of the Ep 2, when the badass time-police officer was trying to run? Or when another badass time-police officer lost all composure, because a little girl stepped on her foot? Seriously, those guys are a joke.

As for Loki himself... he's a good boy now, I guess. It just wasn't enough to be charismatic villain, he grew too popular for that, so now he values other peoples lives, because he found love(with himself... which, in a society where everyone knows what "step-bro, I'm stuck" refers to, is just another thing that you shouldn't be "shaming" people for not finding weird and disturbing) and friendship, never mind the fact that he had family and friends back at Asgard, but chose to betray them for the sake of power.

What made the show go from mediocre to good for me was He Who Remains. Every moment with this guy on screen was entertaining and it's pretty much the only thing that's keeping me interested for the future, I want to see more from both the character and the actor.

 

On further reflection, I‘m sad we didn‘t get to see this…