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Complete Mother of Learning by nobody103 - T - Original Fantasy

Discussion in 'Original Fiction' started by Betosa, Apr 3, 2013.

  1. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    I assume the first - if only because it will make for better storytelling. Keep in mind that once they know where everything is Zorian can probably get them there via his Gates, assuming they are able to get a simulcrum there within the month.

    Also a possibility that they will discover new varieties of magic to allow travel, like international teleportation (even if it's not possible now no reason Zach at least couldn't sort it out given the right information), etc.

    So, let's see... we have the Key that was in that treasury (iirc), and the one Damien helped them find. Do we know any others yet? I'm hoping they'll be a bit trickier.
     
  2. chrnno

    chrnno High Inquisitor

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    The only confirmed ones are the orb now and the crown which Quatach-Ichl is wearing. Which leaves the ring, staff and dagger.

    They might be in the treasure of Eldemar and/or there will be information on where they could be, by either knowing the general location or keeping track of other countries attempts to gather them.

    EDIT: Searching through the fic the dagger was confirmed to be in Eldemar's treasure, one is supposed to be in the deepest part of the Xlotic desert and another was stolen then taken to Blantyrre.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2017
  3. Celestin

    Celestin Dimensional Trunk

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    The trick is not just to travel where they are within one month, but to get them all without any major trouble.

    At the moment they need to defeat the hydra. It's probably the easiest task, but even that could end in a disaster if they aren't careful.

    Then they need to break into the Treasury and even if they get really good at it, I doubt it's ever going to be easy. If something goes wrong, they're going to be on the run for the rest of the loop.

    The third obstacle is Ichl. They could have hundreds more loops and dealing with him always will be the most dangerous task they have and one more thing that can easily go wrong.

    Add two more things and doing all them within one month without any mistake is probably going to be the finale of this adventure. Dealing with the Red Robe and the invasion outside of the loop is going to be just easy compared to something like that and more suited for an extended epilogue.
     
  4. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    I dunno that I agree with most of this, but I can see where you're coming from at least.

    Yes, but in my view they have plenty of time to sort out the 'getting them all without major trouble' part, whereas travel time is a potentially permanent impediment.

    I'm confident in Zach's ability to figure out a quick way to defeat the Hydra consistently, and I'm confident in their combined abilities figuring out a way to rob the Treasury (granted after many, many failed attempts during various loops).

    I admit I somehow forgot about his crown and only remembered the others. Curious how they'll manage this, because you're right. He's never going to be an easy mark. Perhaps we'll see some cleverness rather than skill at play in this case - that's how Zorian beat him before.

    I dunno... I mean, yes. That loop will be stupid crazy and no doubt an exciting chapter, but I think the climax will be the instant they... well, something is going to go horribly wrong, obviously. Whether it's when they try to leave, during this loop before they leave, or right after they get out, I don't know.

    But the if the last loop is just doing all of this stuff we've watched them practice doing for years, it will fall flat.

    Or else something happens that forces them to play their hands early and try to get everything on a loop when they haven't practiced all of it properly yet.

    I just... my instinct says it'd be a little of a let down for the climax to be "watch us do all these things you've watched us practice for years, now in less time!"

    Cheers
     
  5. OkraMaster

    OkraMaster Second Year

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    Well we know for sure that the invaders will have access to demons and high level divinations the like outside the time loop (since right now the spiritual planes are cut off). So it won't be the same, for sure.
     
  6. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    My point was that when they get out things will be interesting, which I think is what you're saying as well?

    The guy I quoted before said he thought the climax would be the final loop inside (wherein they have to gather all the things in order to get out, and that once they 'got out' things would be easy and/or an epilogue).
     
  7. Celestin

    Celestin Dimensional Trunk

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    You assume they will be able to figure out an easy way of gathering the Keys before their final loop which is what I doubt.

    How many loops it took Zorian to break into the aranea's treasury? The royal one is going to be much more difficult and they have less than 50 tries for that.
     
  8. CleanRag

    CleanRag Professor

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    They don't need an easy way, they have an entire month, any repeatable method will work. With Zorian's clones, travel time isnt even an issue. One of them just heads to wherever the artifact is and opens a portal. Once they work out how to break into the treasury they can repeat that method any time they want to.

    Getting all of them in one restart shouldn't even be exciting for them on the last repeat, I do not understand why you guys are making a big deal out of this.
     
  9. Celestin

    Celestin Dimensional Trunk

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    Figuring out a repeatable method is already finding an easy way in my opinion.

    Breaking into the treasury that is not successful will probably double the security. Ichl figuring out he's someone's target will be that much harder to surprise by any trick they have.
     
  10. CleanRag

    CleanRag Professor

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    Except all of that is meaningless in the following restart. They will have to break into a security system that they already have studied, if they screw up then they adjust their plan until they crack it. The timeline for this isn't a 30 day restart, but several years. Once they figure it out once, the security isn't going to be adjusted across restarts.

    The time squeeze isn't going to come from their ability to gather all of the artifacts in a single restart, its going to be their ability to find all five in the four years they have left. My guess is that Ichl will be left until the end. Either they will get Taiven to beat him the same way Zorian did, or they will go raid his phylactery on Ilbasa.

    I'm guessing that Zorian will get a lot of help breaking into the Royal Vault when he starts really diving into Sudomir's mind. The man is a warding expert, and created the best ones that Zorian has seen so far. They also may be able to negotiate for access to the knife now that they have one artifact.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
  11. Celestin

    Celestin Dimensional Trunk

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    Timeline is less than 50 loops (45?) and tries. If they screw up, they become targets of a manhunt that can follow them no matter where they hide and there is no point in trying until the next loop.

    I suppose, in the end it's matter of how hard it's suppose to be. I expect that even with their ability to try many times, it's going to be a major problem.
     
  12. nath1607

    nath1607 Groundskeeper

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    As I've previously mentioned, I'd be rather dissappointed if they do break into Eldemar's vault instead of trying to get access to it via the people allowed into it. It would ruin a good chance to introduce the Eldemar government itself, and the royal family who haven't had any part at all really so far in the story.

    If Zorian and Zach go to the Palace with one of the First Emperor's artifacts I can see that automatically getting them an audience.
     
  13. OkraMaster

    OkraMaster Second Year

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    Daamn I hadn't thought of it at all. And yes, there should be other in's as well - Zach is the heir of a Noble House, Tinami (and House Aope) can be bribed with access to the aranea... That would be much smarter than just breaking in and calling hell (otherwise known as those mage catchers) upon themselves.

    But how much time do we have for that? So far, Arc 1 was 26 chapters, Arc 2 was 28, and we're at Ch. no. 15 now of Arc 3. From what I understand Arc 3 will include the end of the loop and the final real month. Does nobodo103 have the time to introduce those characters and do justice to them? Or would we be ok with a hand wave explanation like we got for Awan Temti and his expedition to Koth (which was ok based on his not affecting the story in the present).
     
  14. lunitan

    lunitan Squib

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    This story has somehow along the way become my favorite book ever made. How the hell has that happened? Perhaps it's the slot machine like nature of waiting and anticipating a regular release but I think it's more than that.

    The best way I can describe this story is that it's like lord of the rings, only with a heavy dose of realism. The amount of world building is kind of crazy, with pretty much every aspect thought out, from the magic, to culture to magical animals. Yet nothing is superfluous, the story itself is planned out meticulously. There are hints dropped in the first chapter that come up again dozens of chapters later. There are more chekhov's guns than a Russian armory, yet the author has proven time and time again that he can and will use every single one of them.

    Then we have the characters. Zorian is the everyman, Xvim the hardass mentor, Zach the likeable powerful dude. All standard archetypes, yet they are all done so well, there is so much depth under the surface, just waiting to be revealed in a new restart. There is a type of charisma that oozes off the page, even despite the fairly common grammar errors.

    It's amazing that this is posted online for free and not a world renowned published book. Give it a try and you won't regret it. Then wait impatiently for the next chapter, like the rest of us have been doing for years.
     
  15. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    I wouldn't say it's my favorite book ever made, but it is good. Good enough that I hope the author edits it (and yes, it does need heavy edits) once he's finished it and tries to get it published as a trilogy.
     
  16. Mutton

    Mutton Order Member

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    Eh, it's really nothing for than a timewaster for me. It definitely benefits from the format, as I would have dropped it long ago it if was a single book
     
  17. Miner

    Miner Order Member

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    Erm.

    MoL does a lot of things well, and there are definitely parts of it that would make me a prospective buyer should it ever become published as a trilogy.

    But like, it's not memorable. If we're talking about the best, then we're talking about stuff that once you read you remember and you can recall a scene within the novel even years later because it's just that good.

    And like, there's that whole middle section of the MoL where Zorian is running away from Red Robe that, while interesting at the time while reading it, ultimately just appears to be another step of this incredibly long journey to... whatever the end goal is here. And it doesn't really inspire any "Wow dude that was so good" exclamations.

    Even this whole scavenger hunt thing for escaping the time loop just seems... almost elementary. Like searching for valuable artifacts? That just seems so bleh.

    For someone who is writing as an amateur, the sheer amount of worldbuilding and the effort that went into planning the plot and the characterizations is astounding. But that's all to be expected as a professional-grade writer. I think there's a "next step" part to becoming a truly great, timeless author, and I don't think MoL takes that step.
     
  18. lunitan

    lunitan Squib

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    I agree that it isn't the best story from a pure technical standpoint, but something about it really interests me. It is exactly the sort of very specific sub-genre I love, which is probably why it's my favorite book ever. I'm really interested in realistic magical worlds with sophisticated and logical magical systems (think sanderson or rothfuss).

    This story takes the cake without reading too much like an encyclopedia, or being distracted by other things. It's almost a pure expression of my favorite sub-genre without romance, drama, or even too much plot getting in the way. For someone not into my very specific sub-genre I can see how it's just average. That said, it's my favorite book, but not my favorite story, that distinction goes to evangelion. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
     
  19. Donimo

    Donimo Auror

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    I love the concept of this, and the world building. The writing has some real issues that clearly separate it from published work. I'd love to see it edited properly. I would definitely buy a copy.
     
  20. OkraMaster

    OkraMaster Second Year

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    The pace definitely did slow down after Soulkill but it ramped up again after Sudomir came up and then Zach came into the picture.

    This story is extremely well planned. Of course, it will need editing once it's complete to be published properly since the execution can be off at times. I've noticed that the last few chapters have had jumps where details would've been great (the team situation in the Hydra aftermath). However. I'd buy a copy once its complete even without editing. I love it. I love how well planned it is, I love how characters have depth to them, and in particular, I love how people don't hold the idiot ball just because the plot needs it. And the humour is on point as well.