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Abandoned On the Way to Greatness - By Mira Mirth - T

Discussion in 'The Alternates' started by ChuckDaTruck, Mar 31, 2009.

  1. Memory King

    Memory King Order Member DLP Supporter

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    I don't think you're taking Remus's interaction with Harry, and the latter's thoughts about his professor, into enough consideration.



    These parts of the story show Harry's initial opinion on Lupin pretty well. He turned out wrong regarding the Boggart, but first impressions count a lot. And it's much easier to alienate someone you aren't even close to in the first place.

    Also, Remus is the only reason why Canon!Harry doesn't consider werewolfs monsters automatically.

    But your thoughts on Harry wanting to be on the Winning Side are pretty close to being spot on, as the first chapter shows. He doesn't want to join his parents' murderer of course, but he likes being on the Slytherin side of the Classroom when Snape is bullying Gryffindors.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2009
  2. whateveritis12

    whateveritis12 Third Year

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    Yeah but Remus did absolutely nothing to earn Harry's ire besides withholding some very personal information about himself (something very few people know) and not really reaching out to him when he could have. It isn't right that Remus stayed away from Harry for most of his life, but suddenly Harry hears from SNAPE that Remus is a werewolf and starts absolutely not trusting Remus at all because he's a werewolf. Where did Remus actually do any damage to him besides withholding information about himself and Harry's parents? It's big but he puts the fact that Remus is a werewolf as not being insignificant and part of why Harry won't contact him.

    It's a start to a slide that will lead him to being a blood purist and another Snape. Next thing you know he's hanging upside down spouting out that Hermione is a mudblood when she just tries to help him.

    Then he vows to kill Sirius just because he saw him at his weakest. And while he may not kill him after it comes out that he's innocent of betraying James and Lily. He still doesn't give a shit about him. To me just three years of learning about the magical world and learning that he has at least someone who has/had close ties to his parents (something he severly wished for when he was stuck in his cupboard just 3 years before), he blows off one because he'd been distant the entire year, and absolutely hates the other for beating him in a duel and leaving him helpless when he's just a 13 year old wizard. It's a little too out of character, to me, for Harry to be like that to Sirius, with only 3 years out of being absolutely alone and not having any friends that he could call family. He takes too many slights against him too personally and holds onto the grudges too much.
     
  3. uriel

    uriel Seventh Year DLP Supporter

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    Completely agree with this. I just couldn't follow Harry's train of thought.

    Harry went from "he betrayed and killed my parents! ill kill him!" to "he didn't betray or kill my parents, but he kicked my ass when I tried to kill him, ill kill him!".

    And the Remus thing was pretty stupid as well, The Boggart insult? srsly? A teacher thinks a 13 year olds worst fear might be of the insane murderer who wiped out his family and countless others? what an insult!
     
  4. Memory King

    Memory King Order Member DLP Supporter

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    Most of what I quoted happened before Snape put Harry back on his shit-list. It shows us that Harry's trust in Remus was shaky at best, nonexistent at worst. The Boggart insult ticked him off at first until Remus told him about his fear, it isn't a part of Harry's little monologue, either. And it's not like Harry hates Lupin, he just resents him for some of his decisions and his reclusive behaviour. And we don't see him thinking about killing Black after the revelations, he just doesn't want to forgive him, still hates him in fact. It also seems like he's looking for a scapegoat he can blame his incompetence on, which is a perfectly understandable, if not a very likeable, human reaction.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2009
  5. ChuckDaTruck

    ChuckDaTruck Overlord

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    "Where did Remus actually do any damage to him besides withholding information about himself and Harry's parents?"

    Regarding Lycanthropy..."I doubt Snape would lie about something so easily verifiable. Either way, Harry would check the dates."

    Its not SNAPE'S Word, to be clear. Snape set him on the right direction (essay and werewolf reveal), Harry CONFIRMED ON HIS OWN. This is in the story.

    And Canon Harry never looked into what it actually means to be a werewolf. But what does it actually mean? Based on book 6 (Fenrir Greyback attacks Bill), we know it is not just a conition that affects one during the full moon. It is WORSE then, but it affects you, shapes you, and taints you all day, constantly.

    I don't understand this BS of "Aww, Harry should trust Lupin, because Remus is nice!11!"

    FUCK REMUS. The guy hid all sorts of shit. 1.) Sirius Black is an animagus, and is potentially using it to evade capture. Remus knew this but everyone is fucking stunned when it is revealed in canon. 2.) Remus never showed slightest concern for Harry, and deliberatelt reats him like any other student. What's so bad if Harry treated him as any profesor. 3.) Never looked in on Harry. This is obvious. And I mean years 1 and 2 as well. Fucking nothing? Nothing.
     
  6. Psychotic Cat

    Psychotic Cat Unspeakable

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    This.




    Fuck the halfbreed with Bellatrix's silver strap-on.

    Honks4life.
     
  7. Rin

    Rin Oberstgruppenführer DLP Supporter

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    Or it could be that he's just a psychopath who happens to be a werewolf. The lexicon mentions that "Greyback believes that "werewolves deserve blood" and preaches to fellow werewolves that they should revenge themselves upon the wizarding world (HBP16)."

    The fact that he has to "preach" to other werewolves indicates that this is not the defult state of a werewolf in his or her human form. Although one could easily argue that they might be predisposed to siding with Greyback, one could easily rebut that by saying that it is like saying a Jew is predisposed to hating Nazis.

    Also, cf. Lupin, who shows no vicious inclinations himself when he is human.
     
  8. Psychotic Cat

    Psychotic Cat Unspeakable

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    Stop interfering with my ship based irrational character hate.

    :cry:
     
  9. KrzaQ

    KrzaQ Denarii Host DLP Supporter

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    To be honest, I could never understand how could he not after living with Dursleys.
     
  10. Psychotic Cat

    Psychotic Cat Unspeakable

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    Because Harry is Jesus and Jesus could never be like Voldemort who is really Satan and was born evil so his hate has nothing to do with growing up being mistreated by muggles. Jesus!Harry could totally forgive that while Satan!Tom would have wanted to kill them no matter what they did.

    It's a lot easier to make sense of JKRLogic when you remember that neither her protagonist or antagonist are intended to be "human".
     
  11. Kinser

    Kinser Fourth Year

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    Alright. First I must say that I am one of the few that probably likes Slytherin!Harry stories. Mainly because I've been obsessed with the idea for ages and ages now. But I digress.

    The story seems to be lacking in action right now. But the characterizations are good. The grammar is solid except for a few typographical errors. For example I caught several instances of "thinks" when I think the author means "things" from the context. But like I said these appear to be typographical errors.

    Over all this is a very solid story and I think it to be in the just under 4/5. If the story improves over the course of its being written it surely will be 4/5.
     
  12. ChuckDaTruck

    ChuckDaTruck Overlord

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    Werewolves, Remus, and Harry's grump with Sirius

    Gah. Read my earlier post. Sloppy as shit. Tired, late, usual shit.

    Gonna have to disagree here.

    From HP Wiki (cause I'm too lazy to pull out HBP):
    "After his mauling at the hands of Fenrir Greyback, it was feared that his personality would change, and that he would take on some wolfish characteristics. However, Bill's personality remained intact, although he did develop a liking for very rare steaks."

    This attack occurred during the DE invasion when Draco let them in, not even on the full moon. So, what does this demonstrate? 2 things.

    1.) Werewolf magic is something that you have all day long. Why? Bill's scars wouldn't heal, and they feared personality change. This means that Fenrir carries that magic all the time, regardless if its full moon or not. Furthermore, this magic has the ability to shape others as well. Bill's cuts and scratches would not heal and they feared how he would be affected.

    2. Becoming a werewolf changes your very nature. This is demonstrated in the fact that Bill craves Rare Steak. But this is relatively mild. The Million Dollar Question is: What did they fear would happen to Bill? What personality "changes" could arise that, fortunately, didn't? What were they so afraid of?

    3.) You say Remus was a pacifist in Canon. I agree. I think he was so passive BECAUSE of the Wolf. He was so terribly afraid of his own nature that he was a pussy. His choices are a response, which means he was reacting.

    You want to see Pussy evidence (caused by fear of his inner Wolf)? 1.) Doesn't sack up to tell Harry who he is in parents life. This is a no-brainer, and was clearly allowed, as he later did it. 2.) Boggart is the FULL MOON, exemplifying he's terrified of his very nature. 3.) Has hottie metamorph (Tonks) throwing herself at him, and he can't seem to get his shit together for neurotic reasons based partially on his condition. 4.) Any argument with Snape or others, Remus backs down.

    I agree, Remus is non-violent. The question is why is he such a twat? The Answer is his Boggart.

    But these are not the only issues: Again: 1.) Remus hides Sirius's animagus form. I'd even argue that Albus hired Remus specifically BECAUSE Sirius had escaped, and he wanted someone in the castle who knew him and his patterns intimately. That's why he went through all the difficulty of making Snape brew Wolfsbane, etc. This makes Remus failure greater.
    2.) Doesn't contact Harry. Even discounting Dursley time, once Harry enters WW, Remus doesn't contact him, despite knowing he was raised by muggles, and has no wizard contacts, he chooses to let the boy fend for himself. But what Harry faces/faced is worse than what Muggleborn's face, who enter WW anonymous. Harry is Famous, with a shit ton of expectations to shoulder. But even then Remus couldn't write a letter, or reach out in some way? Bull.
    3.) And he goes out of his way to treat Harry as normal student, and probably would have the entire time (both in canon and out) as such for the whole year. He also deprived Harry of confronting his boggart because he didn't want to unsettle others. Remus didn't ask to make it up, he would have been perfectly happy if Harry NEVER requested to face his boggart.

    But Harry requested Patronus lessons, thus changing the dynamic of their relationship.

    Finally, the idea of preaching:
    Rabbis Preach to Jews, but Jews are not forced to attend. They CHOOSE to go.
    Jesse Jackson preaches to members of the Black Community, but he doesn't force people to listen: He doesn't grab anyone and say, "All right, I'm going to talk and you guys are going to listen! Where's my soap box?"

    If Fenrir Greyback is preaching to werewolves, this does not show weakness, but the exact opposite! It demonstrates the very strength of his ideas that Werewolves are willing to and desire to sit and listen to him express his thoughts about the direction, nature, and path of werewolves. He is striking a chord of shared sentiment.

    Finally this story:

    I gave it a review before, but I'll say my qualms: I thought Harry was pretty harsh with Sirius considering he was innocent, yet this has no role to play in Harry's view of the situation. The author attributes this to Sirius exposing Harry's weakness, the worst thing that can happen to him or any other Slytherin.

    Evidence of this is Harry's response to Cedric in book 2 of this fic, and Blaise and Millie's response when he's hospitalized regarding showing emotion. So it makes sense emotionally, but its still harsh.

    Remus makes sense, as hopefully demonstrated above and in my view, they are, in general, dangerous.
     
  13. Kai Shek

    Kai Shek Supreme Mugwump

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    Because it's hard to say that Muggles suck when wizards and witches treat him just as badly.
     
  14. KrzaQ

    KrzaQ Denarii Host DLP Supporter

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    They treated him fine at start of book 1, where he could've, and should've, agreed with pureblood sentiments.
     
  15. uriel

    uriel Seventh Year DLP Supporter

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    Besides being a filthy half blood himself you mean.
     
  16. Psychotic Cat

    Psychotic Cat Unspeakable

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    I agree

    Totally impossible for a half blood to hate muggles, that's why every deather, supporter and associate can trace at least ten generations without any muggle blood.
     
  17. Dirk Diggory

    Dirk Diggory Seventh Year

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    Doesn't have to agree with pureblood sentiments, but the fact that he was basically told "you have superpowers and the Dursleys hate and mistreat you for it" and yet never entertained any thoughts of revenge or superiority over them isn't realistic at all.
     
  18. Grubdubdub

    Grubdubdub Supreme Mugwump

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    Sure, if you don't count Snape and Voldemort.

    Also, iirc Harry didn't hate the Dursley's in his childhood/first year.
     
  19. Psychotic Cat

    Psychotic Cat Unspeakable

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    Lies, filthy mudblood lies and slander.

    *shakes fist*
     
  20. whateveritis12

    whateveritis12 Third Year

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    Back to the werewolves for just a sec.

    We have only seen both sides of the spectrum concerning them. The bloodthirsty Greyback, and the I don't want anything to do with being a werewolf Remus.

    We see absolutely nothing wrong with Remus's day to day moods (being angered quickly and lashing out and such). While Greyback likes being a werewolf so much he's taken too having a taste to human flesh.

    I think we can safely assume it's somewhere between the two where the normal werewolves fall. While they won't bend over for just about anyone, they won't actively seek to feed on humans.

    And from what we've seen from Bill's attack, being attacked by one when they aren't turned doesn't damage you too much. Just some cursed scars and a prediliction for rawer meat. Even then the circumstances could be because it was done at night when the moon is out and during the day they are as harmless as any human. That and the fact that they would have to seek out human flesh to even pass on even that little bit of the curse.

    So what does it come down too? We know absolutely nothing about werewolves in JKR's world, and we've only seen the two extremes regarding behavior with them.
     
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